Emergency refill sachets for Zippos?

Joined
Jul 19, 1999
Messages
443
My apologies if this has been discussed or done before, or worse yet, is already a commercial product.

I was wondering about long-term storage for emergency purposes of a Zippo lighter. I like Zippos because of their simplicity and reliability. Their "wind-proof" design is more reliable than all those by Colibri and Windmill et al. And being refiliable with a liquid fuel, they are a little simpler and more versatile than butane based lighters. BTW, I have so far had good results with Zippo fuel (Naptha), shellite and petrol (though the low octane stuff burns with far too much soot). I've found that methylated spirits work but not so great (less heat, more susceptable to wind) and evaporates too fast. Ditto for rubbing alcohol. Has anyone tried other fuels like kerosene, thinner, mineral turpentine or diesel?

Anyway, on to my idea. The problem with long term storage of Zippo lighters has always been that the fuel in the lighter itself would evaporate. You could store the fuel in little air-tight containers, but what about in micro survival kits, or for carry on your person?

I would like to propose small, sealed sachets to carry the fuel. For a commercial manufacturer with the capabilities, a disposable dropper could be employed, similar in form to those currently in use for eye drops. These are small, single-use, crush-resistant, disposable plastic things. They could easily contain the 20ml or so required in each refill and I have seen bigger ones that go to 150ml (for holding injecting drugs and sterile washes), so I'm sure the volume can be adjusted to suit.

Or how about sachets as used to hold sauces, like ketchup, soya sauce (from the takeaway sushi places), or similar? As I recall, some sushi places give you the soya sauce in small bottles that look like a fish. It has a small replaceable cap. Although a little small, it would suit the purpose, I think. 2 of those would probably completely refill the Zippo.

But what about the home hobbyist without the manufacturing capabilities or a store of those disposable soya sauce bottles? Can we use plastic straws such as those found in MacDonalds? Cut them to half the length, seal one end, fill it up and seal the other end. Would it resist crushing when carried on person? Can it withstand being left in a car on a hot summer's day without blowing up or melting and leaking fuel all over? Are there any better ideas?

I appreciate any input any of you have. Thanks in advance.
 
You might want to try the little bottle of Tabasco sauce out of an American military MRE (meal ready to eat.) I wash out and use those bottles to store oil for a BOB gun cleaning kit and they work fine. I'm not sure how the plastic top would react to lighter fluids, though. One of those little bottles should be just about right for a quick Zippo refill.
 
This is more of a problem than you would think. I agree about the Zippo as the best choice survival lighter. Have tried many, many, containers to store fluid. Presently I'm using cryogenic plastic centrifuge tubes, with a screw-on teflon top. They hold 2 or 3 lighter loads. BUT still volatize out over 4-5 weeks no matter what you do. I've even sealed them in liquid rubber.

I'll continue to use the system, but refill my storage tubes prior to any trip. For real long-term storage.... the can the fluid came in!
 
If I'm going camping or otherwise away from civilization for a few days, I'll just bring an extra bottle of Zippo fluid, straight off the shelf of 7-11. I'll also pick up a 5 pack of Bic lighters. I smoke cigarettes and always carry both my Zippo and a Bic with me. I got into the habit when I was in high school because it is unhealthy to smoke pot with a Zippo. I gave up on smoking pot, but the additional lighter sure comes in handy sometimes, like when I have to hand someone a lighter or my Zippo runs out of fluid. Mainly for matters of style, I love my Zippo, but I actually find Bics more reliable. A $1 Bic lighter will last longer before it has to be replaced than a Zippo will before it has to be refilled. In my experience, a Bic will give more "warning" before going out than a Zippo will. There have been times when it was too windy to light my Zippo, but the Bic worked. Like I said, I love my Zippo, but if you really don't want to get stuck without a lighter when you're up in the mountains, pick up a 5 pack of non-adjustable Bic lighters. They're not that big or heavy, and much easier, cheaper, and more reliable than creating vacuum sealed packs of Zippo fluid. Oh, and when your Bic lighters run out of fluid, take them apart and save the flint for your Zippo (or make flint bombs :)).
 
Naro: Despite the seal, they still volatized over 4-5 weeks? How? Wasn't it a fully air tight seal?

Medusa: The Bic lighted in windy conditions when the Zippo didn't? That's kind of incredible to think about. My Zippo would light under any conditions that the Bic would light in, and stay lit in windy conditions when the Bic couldn't.

Has anyone ever had a can of Zippo fluid long enough to check if the fluid escapes in storage? If kept in a totally air-tight sealed pack, would the fuel be able to escape? Which materials permit diffusion of the volatized fuel? PET, styrene, rubber, acrylic?

Are there any alternative liquid fueled lighters on the market or are Zippos and Zippo knock-offs the only liquid fueled lighters available?
 
Good thread! I carry both also. The bics can be handier, but often have difficulty in high altitudes. The zippos are wonderful, although not quite as convenient as the bics. They definitely have a "cool" factor, and the fluid is great for cleaning tree sap off your hands...
 
Originally posted by Steelwolf
Medusa: The Bic lighted in windy conditions when the Zippo didn't? That's kind of incredible to think about.

I've seen this happen once or twice. It's very annoying too. ;)

Has anyone ever had a can of Zippo fluid long enough to check if the fluid escapes in storage? [/QUOTE]

I've had the same container for over year now. While it may be evaporating, it's at such a slow rate, I can't tell if it's use or evaporation.

Chris
 
It gets pretty windy here in SF sometimes and yes, there have been multiple times that it was too windy to light the Zippo but it was possible to light the Bic. A Zippo will stay lit better than a Bic in the wind, but when it's too windy to light the Zippo I can still get the bic lit for long enough to light a cigarette.
 
Steelwolf: It was as sealed as I could make it! These tiny test-tube like vials screw closed tightly. You can't shake any fluid out. They are nalgene-like plastic. I completely submerged them in "plastigrip" and they came out looking like a tube of rubber. But a month later 80% of the fluid was gone. Even if FURTHER sealed in a foodsaver vac.pak system. My best guess is some infiltration or permeation THROUGH the walls of the materials. But I've given up on this. I just refill periodically.

The Zippo cans will, eventually, show some minor loss of fluid. Just ask your favorite tobacco shop guys about shelf life of unopened cans... it ain't forever. But you'll probably never notice the loss.

As far as the argument of Zippo vs Bic: If you're going to carry a Bic, carry several. And carry close to your body in very cold weather. Just try to get butane to light in very cold, very high elevations and I bet you'll wish for your Zippo.
 
Steelwolf-

I have a lighter by IMCO (an Austrian Company) that uses the same fuel as the Zippo. Overall the performance is similar to the Zippo however it seals up better so you don't lose as much fuel to evaporation when its not in use. I also like it because it looks different than everyone elses lighter. It cost me less than $10
 
wow,

this thread is pretty intriguing. aren't we the land of packaging?
i've owned a zippo ever since i started smoking and i could never get over on how long a can of fluid would last me. buy a can maybe once a year to keep my zippo burning, and i use it 20 times a day. i think one of the factors might be the type of plastic used on the spout. ronsonol fuel and zippo fuel seem to use the same soft plastic for the spout, and ronsonol bottles are made of the same stuff, but keep forever. maybe it's more impermeable to naphthanol than others. there could be an additional washer in there too (i wasn't about to pop the top to check though).

for an actual fix, i know that you can get a small contact lens fluid holder for saline. contains a few ounces and usually has the same type of spout on the cans. the material for the small container seems the same as the spout material. it would be a good all-around solution if it worked.

incidently, i ALWAYS have my zippo. if it's out of fluid, i always use matches. can't stnad bics, but oh well, they're cheap and you can always salvage the flint off of them when they're empty..hint, hint.

toast
 
I always carry a Mini Bic, but whenever I walk into the trees I have my Zippo with me also. I also carry a flint rod, and waterproof matches. I have had my Zippo run out once in awhile in the bush, and found that I could still make a fire with it. Pull the works out of the case and pull some of the cotton filling out, fluff it well, place it where the sparks from the lighter can reach, and spin that wheel. The sparks will ignite the cotton. If you are out of fluid, dunk the inside of the lighter in a gas tank for a few seconds, shake well, re-assemble and you are back in business. It does smoke bad though. While I was in the army, I rarely worried about buying fluid. I like the idea of the tabasco bottles, and filled one up this evening to see if it will last. I put some Zippo fluid away for Y2k, and two yrs later the cans still feel full. Maybe the plastic top of the tabasco bottles has the same type of plastic as the Zippo and Ronson bottles, and they will hold the fluid. //Took a bone dry Zippo, had not been used in 2 yrs. 1 bottle, will get it going, but figure on 2 bottles to fill one Zippo up properly, or one bottle to fill 1 that was just getting low. One bottle should make a pretty good emergency fire starter. I am going to be adding 2 or 3 to each of my kits, and checking on them every 2 months to see if they are holding fluid.
 
I've got hold of a couple of the sauce bottles used for soya sauce from a take-away sushi counter. Going to start an endurance test to see how long they will last, one in a cool place (my room) and another in my car, which admittedly is rather cool at this time. Further tests will be conducted in the summer.

Although the bottle seems to resist a fair amount of crushing, I still don't trust it. Perhaps after the endurance tests are finished I will try a crush test. Results will be posted to this thread.

BTW, test fluid is shellite as that is the one I have on me most often due to my camp stove. Can't be bothered to buy a new bottle of Zippo fluid (Naptha) when the shellite works so well. Maybe later.
 
This isn't exactly what you asked about, but for about 2 months I've kept a Zippo in my truck. After fueling it up, I dropped it in a plastic sandwitch bag and tapped the whole think up. Just checked it, and there seems to be no (or very little) fluid loss.
 
Rollin: Plastic sandwich bag as in the GladLock brand storage bags with the "zip"? 2months in your truck with little fluid loss seems to be quite incredible, esp. considering the experience Naro has had. I'm guessing your truck runs the typical temperature gamut of over 60degC in the sun?
 
Ok... the plastic sauce soy sauce bottle that is given with your take-away sushi is worthless for this. 2 days in my room (nominal temperature 24degC) and already half the capacity is lost. :(

Looking around again...
 
Yeah, just a regular Glad-Lock bag; it looks like this:
View

I guess zippos drain because fluid breaks away from the stuffing, and then turns into vapor which creeps out of the lighter. When the whole thing is fairly well sealed, the fluid doesn't have much of a chance to break away from the rayon stuffing.
<P>
If you've got a Zippo to spare, wrap it up & toss it away for a month or so.
<P>
(BTW, I keep it in the glovebox so it's somewhat sheilded from the heat).
 
I'm thinking gasoline, kerosene, acetone, BBQ lighter fluid, rubbing alcohol, peroxide, etc... There are many flammable liquids around, some of which might even work better. I haven't tried anything else yet, but it'd be good to know if anyone else has had any luck (good or bad).
 
I have tried gasoline (unleaded 92RON petrol) and it burns well, though with a slight tendency to produce black smoke.

Shellite (Coleman Fuel or White Gas) seems great without that tendency to smoke unless the wick is too long or it has been left burning for a little too long (past 1 minute).

I have tried methylated spirits, but can't remember how well it performed. I just remember that the blue flame it produced was not particularly windproof.

I had trouble with getting the rubbing alcohol to light, but I think that was because the brand I was using had too much water content. But I had some success with aftershave. There was just barely enough alcohol in the aftershave to light, but it didn't produce a good flame. Can't remember the brand. It was some cheap stuff that I got as a free gift.

As I understand it, acetone is too volatile and therefore dangerous with a tendency to explode, but I could be wrong. I have not tried kerosene yet, though I have heard that it is a little harder to light as compared to shellite or petrol. BBQ lighter fluid should be a wonderful substance, but I don't have the opportunity to try as all the stupid "BBQs" that they have here run on gas, not wood. I'm not sure what you mean by peroxide.

I think that covers every substance I have tried. I hope someone comes back with experiences with the acetone, BBQ lighting fluid or peroxide. This should be interesting. :)
 
Back
Top