Emergency Tarps, Ponchos, Debris Sheleters...etc.

Now there's a forum that could use Brian comming over and kicking some butt!

-- FLIX
 
WOW! You're not kidding! I have a couple of posts over there. I can't believe the attitude. To be fair, that attitude is confined to only one or two participants. The rest offer sane safe advice. Interesting reading for sure.
 
I always say, you can't argue with stupid. You have to simply agree to disagree. I'm a big advocate for letting actions speak louder than words. Anything I say on a forum, I'll gladly back up in person on any of the trips I post about here.

All that those gung ho "I don't need to carry that" gear guys have to do is show us how easy it is to do in person. Maybe spend a night out in the woods without the gear and see if they sing a different tune. As much as I love the internet for the sharing of ideas, I can't stand armchair tough guys.

In my opinion, you need to carry something or have the knowledge to be able to construct something to protect you from the elements. Shelter consideration is part of the rule of 3 in relation to hours alive exposed to elements. Not recognizing this or running contrary to what is popular is a recipe for disaster.
 
You said it best Estela with agreeing to disagree. Some people make a decision contrary to all the evidence in the world and won't be swayed. That's fine by me, as long as I'm not with them (and if I don't have to come pick them up when trouble brews).

At some point I have to wonder though, why would you not carry a small package worth of materials that could potential save your life, or make life at least a whole lot easier in an emergency?

One things for sure, I have renewed appreciation for the BF WSS. This place is a utopia compared to that poo-flinging that was going on in that thread. I couldn't even finish reading it after it became so entrenched.
 
I disagree with you about agreeing to disagree.

Wait, what the hell did I just say? :confused: ;) :D

Who's on first?
 
k_estela said:
All that those gung ho "I don't need to carry that" gear guys have to do is show us how easy it is to do in person.
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Actually, though, the foolish participant (or two) in that discussion isn't claiming to be a tough guy. His attitude is one that is unfortunately more common. It is that nothing bad cold possibly happen, so no worries.

I've come close two or three times to spending an unexpected night in the woods. It's a lot less likely to happen to me today, but sometime things happen.
 
Sign over door at Sheriff's Substation at Death Valley, Cal., 1965: "Nobody dies."

We all appreciated the irony.
 
k_estela said:
All that those gung ho "I don't need to carry that" gear guys have to do is show us how easy it is to do in person. Maybe spend a night out in the woods without the gear and see if they sing a different tune. As much as I love the internet for the sharing of ideas, I can't stand armchair tough guys.

In my opinion, you need to carry something or have the knowledge to be able to construct something to protect you from the elements. Shelter consideration is part of the rule of 3 in relation to hours alive exposed to elements. Not recognizing this or running contrary to what is popular is a recipe for disaster.
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They don't have to show you or I a thing, Kev. Simple fact of the matter is, every time the news gets a good hold on some nitwit out in a snowstorm or in the wild, breaking all the rules, we get to see them...or their body being carried out.

Look at the hero of the stupid, Ralston. No good tools to even amputate your own limb when you screw-up and everyone says how experienced he was/is. B.S.

IF, and that's a big IF, if someone on this forum did everything wrong they possibly could, I'm betting they could chop their own arm off in two or three massively painful strokes. Sound extreme? Hey, you never know. Half of those people would have Quick-Clot and tourniquets and other medical items to help themselves through the rest of the ordeal that they screwed up and had to endure through a mistake, bravado or whatever.

Not that any of the regulars here would be that stupid, but if they were, they would have the tools to deal with it.

Simple fact of the matter is, Ralston would have died from exposure had he been in an area that was colder.

On a much more primitive level, I look at people like that and think to myself, "OK, too stupid to live." If they wanna run up the hill like a brownaround without any consideration to a simple mistake, underestimation or freak accident on their part - good for them.

Ralston, experienced guy, yeah...didn't even have a knife sharp enough to cut his own limb off after he did everything wrong and instead ended up sawing and ripping and twisting and tearing it off, reduced to a jaw-trapped raccoon.

Same mentality.
 
I have a friend that does everything wrong all the time. No gear or wrong gear. He doesn't even carry a pocket knife, never mind a lighter. He also seems to always make the stupidest decisions. I don't know why he's still alive. He shouldn't be. The thing is, he uses his "success" as proof that his decisions were wise, and that he doesn't need a pocket knife or other tools. He's my friend and I'm glad he's still alive, but sometimes, I almost wish he'd suffer just a bit so he'll learn a lesson or two.
 
Don Rearic said:
Look at the hero of the stupid, Ralston. No good tools to even amputate your own limb when you screw-up and everyone says how experienced he was/is. B.S.
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It's easy for us to Monday-morning QB someone. Ignorant, maybe, is more accurate. Ralston was not stupid, just uneducated. :cool:

Don Rearic said:
IF, and that's a big IF, if someone on this forum did everything wrong they possibly could, I'm betting they could chop their own arm off in two or three massively painful strokes. Sound extreme? Hey, you never know. Half of those people would have Quick-Clot and tourniquets and other medical items to help themselves through the rest of the ordeal that they screwed up and had to endure through a mistake, bravado or whatever.

Not that any of the regulars here would be that stupid, but if they were, they would have the tools to deal with it.
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What amazes me is that people don't even know that our realm of knowledge even exists, so they don't go looking for survival information. It's up to us to shout it out so more people take an interest, and less die.

Don Rearic said:
On a much more primitive level, I look at people like that and think to myself, "OK, too stupid to live."
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Don, Don, Don. Why don't you listen to your doctor's advice? Take down all the mirrors in your house, like he told you, and you will cease to have this problem. :p :D:D:D

(I love when my friends make it wayyyyyyyyyyyyy to easy to bust their balls. Thank, Don!). :thumbup: :D
 
OK, I'm going to admit something: I can be a stubborn idiot at times. Awhile ago I was out on a dayhike in early spring. It was a beautiful, sunny 60 degree day. I did have a small folding knife and a lighter and less than a pint of water but that was it, no maps, no compass, no extra clothes, nothing else really, and I had been doing this many times before. At around 3pm the weather turned on a dime and the temperature dropped probably 20 degrees and then it started raining and got windy, and then it really started pouring and the wind picked up. I was drenched, really cold, disoriented and essentially lost. It scared the crap out of me and taught me a valuable lesson.
 
theonew said:
OK, I'm going to admit something: I can be a stubborn idiot at times. Awhile ago I was out on a dayhike in early spring. It was a beautiful, sunny 60 degree day. I did have a small folding knife and a lighter and less than a pint of water but that was it, no maps, no compass, no extra clothes, nothing else really, and I had been doing this many times before. At around 3pm the weather turned on a dime and the temperature dropped probably 20 degrees and then it started raining and got windy, and then it really started pouring and the wind picked up. I was drenched, really cold, disoriented and essentially lost. It scared the crap out of me and taught me a valuable lesson.
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I think a lot of us have had that experience (I know I have), and for most folks I think that's all the wake-up call that's necessary. It gets easy to see that the ounces worth of proper gear is well worth the weight.
 
I would imagine that they would have a lot of negative things to say about us as well. Who NEEDS five fixed blades on a day hike? Who needs 10 pounds of gear for a situation that is 99.9999% not likely to occur? Guns, PSKs, rain gear when it's not raining, BOBs, hatchets, fire making kits, blah blah blah.

I used to go to their forums daily, but haven't paid much attention to them lately. I look the part of a backpacker, with gear from REI type stores instead of head to toe camo from Cabela's. I am more of a backpacker than a bushcrafter and probably fit more in line with their average demographic than the one here, but the attitude over there doesn't even compare to the friendly atmosphere that one finds here. There is a distinct lack of moderation on their forums, which is fine for political forums, but not when people are trying to get help.

I just don't get all the bickering back and forth about preparedness. It comes down to how you view your outdoor trips. I go outside to have fun, plain and simple. I am not trying to prove anything, accomplish anything, win any races, or anything else. Who cares what other people do when they are outside? At least they are getting outside, unlike most of the world.

more people = more support = more parks = more fun

If some knucklehead wants to go on a hike with no rain gear and a thundercloud on the horizon, more power to him. As long as he does not interfere with me, he can do whatever he wants. I would be more than happy to help him and give him some advice (heck, I have an entire website dedicated to just that), but most of the time I have found that people don't want that. People don't like admitting they are wrong, no matter who the advice is coming from.

It's not like survival or preparation information is hidden from the general populace. Hell, it is posted on giant signs on most trailheads. If they willfully choose to go unprepared, then we at least have something to talk about. :)
 
Brian Jones said:
Don, Don, Don. Why don't you listen to your doctor's advice? Take down all the mirrors in your house, like he told you, and you will cease to have this problem. :p :D:D:D

(I love when my friends make it wayyyyyyyyyyyyy to easy to bust their balls. Thank, Don!). :thumbup: :D
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Don't confuse me with the Paxil and Zoloft sucking tuds* you are used to dealing with. :D

(And, yes, it's "tuds" because some people don't even deserve to have the "r" placed in "turd" when you refer to them...)
 
Scott Ridgeway said:
Actually, though, the foolish participant (or two) in that discussion isn't claiming to be a tough guy. His attitude is one that is unfortunately more common. It is that nothing bad cold possibly happen, so no worries.

I've come close two or three times to spending an unexpected night in the woods. It's a lot less likely to happen to me today, but sometime things happen.
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I've come very close twice, so I take the issue of what to bring along on a hike very seriously. You can experience up to a 40 F night-time temp drop in the mountains, and that can easily kill you if you are unprepared. So my day pack is generally based on the concept of being able to survive exposure on that first night.
 
Its funny.
At my local backpacking store the knives the sell there are crkt kiss tanto folders(420 off course w/ serrations), kershaw carabiner knives(more 420) and leatherman micras, all of the made of 420 and are chisel ground.
Half the empoly's reconize me so the walk in the back when I walk in(lol) because they know I know more than them and I dont need their help.
 
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