Emerson Chisel Left Side Why?

115Italian said:
One of the benefits of a chisel grind knife is the ease of sharpening. It seems like you're fishing for a argument with some of the wording in your posts. The "Emerson rep" is actually that. It seems like you were being a little disrespectful. Please understand that you're posting in Emerson forum and people here like the knife designs that you don't seem to get. Most of your response come off like you think the chisel grind sucks and are challenging us to prove otherwise.
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Hmmm ..., that kinda sounds to me like you are calling me out like you feel I ignorantly walked into Emersonville purposely hanging low bait to pick a fight. NOT

When I first read your post I felt the same way I do many times getting into a discussion with an Emerson Fan-Boy. Ask them a question and they feel you are belittling their manhood. I really had to just ignore your post for the day and let it go.

Yes, I think it's obvious (by my questions posted here) that for many years I did/do not get it (Emerson Knives fit & finish, left-hand Chisel grinds, etc., etc.). I have talked to many people about my thoughts over the years, and for the most part very few people ever really had significant comments related to performance bennifits or could provide valid answers without getting their tit in a ringer. Ergonomics in hand, blade shapes, materials selections, lower RC's, use of slotted & Phillips head screws, ...I get those things (understand and appreciate the design performance characteristics of these things). Many of the reasons I have temporarily put aside what "I believe" I know about the things I do not like and/or have not been able to accept. And, yes I am also looking to learn about the positive performance characteristics of a chisel grind in a pocket folding knife.

I have however recommended Emerson knives to a number of my friends. Not neccessarliy the brand, but a specific model based on where they were in their development. Some moved on, some became Koolaid addicted, some stayed and also diversified among other brands concurrently.

I you need me to provide an Emerson knife photo of one of mine to accept me for what I write, I could do that. Maybe you would also require that I post serial number so that you can check up further ...?

Correct me if I am wrong here, it's my assumption EmersonRep is not an Emerson employee, but a BladeForum member who "chooses" to field questions from time to time in support of a company he likes. I hope that he has not taken anything I have posted related to him as derogatory in any way.

If I have hurt anyone's feeling, I am sorry BOO!

If anything, I feel coming to this Emerson side of B.F. that I was the one putting myself out there for ridicule as I have seen many times the self-defense nature this brand seems to garnish.

I am here to learn with an open mind. If you don't accept or believe that, I would respectfully request that you do not post further to this thread. If on the other side you can respect me and the questions and views I present in that I am truly attempting to learn, I openly welcome your constructive comments.

On other forums I frequent it is generally understood that the OP has principal guidance over a thread. Anyone here please let me know if the Emerson threads follow a different set of guidelines.
 
jbravo said:
Ernie has stated many times, dating back to my personal knowledge as early as 1994, that he chose the left hand grind side because it photographed better. That is, it "presented" better.

The benefits that the chisel grind allow are many and easily understood and proven beyond debate.
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jbravo,

I would appreciate if you could list some of the positive performance characteristics "bennifits" that are proven related to chisel grinds on everyday folding knives, and/or one's that may somehow be specific to Emerson Knives.

There are a few that I am aware of related to knives I use for specific purpose, but I am here to learn from the guys that know from first hand use, vs. those that are simply repeaters.

Semper fidelis
 
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Well at least with the chisel guys can't complain that the grind isn't perfectly symetrical.
 
Sosa said:
Well at least with the chisel guys can't complain that the grind isn't perfectly symetrical.
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Edit:That's funny, and I suppose a validation statement for chisel grind - Thanks!

Originally came across to me
That sounds like a dig on the "whiners" who have not learned or worse yet choose not to learn how to adjust factory grinds to suit their needs ;-) Or those who look for any reason to return a knife after they realize that it's not what they thought it would be. "I love it, will never sell it ..." week later Instagram @ KnifeSales etc.
 
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I like the chisel grind because it's a classic blade shape, it cuts well and is easy to sharpen.
rolf
 
The reason I sharpen edge trailing is just from years of practice and stropping.
Because I have mastered my edge trailing on the strop I transformed that into my ideal way for free hand.
That was my second Emerson in my life. So its certainly not from owning or using them.
With something like the sharpmaker I do the opposite when I finish the edge up before stropping.
 
Spey, I alway like a good conversation about knives. I have no problem with you disagreeing with me or a knife design. I've been happy to answer your questions and would like to continue to hear your opinions. There was no emotion of anger in what last wrote. I thought you were getting angry. Let's continue on the path of I'm interested in your opinions and questions. I'm not a fan boy who will defend Emerson to the end. Every knife has its pros and cons. Nothing's perfect. There are plenty of people who have reprofiled their emersons to a conventional v grind and seem very happy with the results. Also Emerson rep is actually a rep for the Emerson knife company.
 
I'll correct you since you are wrong, but I'm an appointed moderator from Ernest. You're right in that I'm not an employee but I'm also not just a member here that answers questions from time to time. Mr. Emerson asked me to to help out here so that we could keep this sub forum going and I obliged. I relay information from EKI directly and sometimes give my own opinion.
 
EmersonREP said:
I'll correct you since you are wrong, but I'm an appointed moderator from Ernest. You're right in that I'm not an employee but I'm also not just a member here that answers questions from time to time. Mr. Emerson asked me to to help out here so that we could keep this sub forum going and I obliged. I relay information from EKI directly and sometimes give my own opinion.
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Thank you,
I hope nothing I have said was perceived as disrespectful to you in any way.

Back in this thread someone posted a question to you directly related to warranty. I was wondering if you have had a chance to research the answer, as I to was curious. Looks like it must have been on page one as i can not scroll up from the Quick Reply box to page one to see. I think it was by ebdis (probably got that wrong, but seems to be a frequent poster on Emersons).
 
No offense taken. In regards to the sharpening issue, I'm still waiting for an official response from Rachael, the head of assembly. I don't want to give out the wrong information. The sharpening technique was what I found comfortable for myself. I don't believe there's a right or wrong way to sharpen a knife unless of course you're not getting the right angle. Mr. Emerson may chime in here in regards to the reason he chose the grind on that side of the blade.
 
Ok I just got the info. If you sharpen the knife yourself the warranty is still good. EKI may be able to bring the knife back to a chisel edge but they don't sharpen V edges. Honestly it's a case by case basis. If you mess up your blade it's not covered under warranty obviously and you'd have to pay to have it fixed. The warranty is good for the lock and other parts and as long as the ramp hasn't been touched on the blade then you're good.
 
115Italian said:
Spey, I alway like a good conversation about knives. I have no problem with you disagreeing with me or a knife design. I've been happy to answer your questions and would like to continue to hear your opinions. There was no emotion of anger in what last wrote. I thought you were getting angry. Let's continue on the path of I'm interested in your opinions and questions. I'm not a fan boy who will defend Emerson to the end. Every knife has its pros and cons. Nothing's perfect. There are plenty of people who have reprofiled their emersons to a conventional v grind and seem very happy with the results. Also Emerson rep is actually a rep for the Emerson knife company.
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Thank you for the level headed reply here, and as such I feel obliged to open up a little more ...

I had really been attempting to keep my "opinions" to myself, and simple ask respectful questions in attempt to understand with a goal of either modifying my opinions or getting answers that make sense to me with regard to what I ultimately choose to do with this knife. My existing "opinions" I have elected to devalue to a point where I can hopefully be open-minded as to learn that perhaps my opinions have been misguided. That is a struggle for me, yes. I am fairly analytical (no not-anal-litical). I am truly interested in putting together an Emerson I can/would call my own, and I am trying. I do not just accept the Koolaid, but then again I do understand parts that are appealing to me and I am interested to buy in.

Primary flow for me is Form follows function.

Some spyderco knives I have had for example, were butt ugly to me but I got over this because of performance and ergonomics. Example PM then PM2. But after using this knife and carrying it, I learned to ignore the fugly. I have been through numerous PM2 in past years and have carried my modified one daily for some time now because it just works (I made changes to it that improved it in my opinion). I have to pause many times after using it and realise how easily it performs tasks before just putting it back IWB. Grant & Gavin knives similar afair, Brous same, Benchmade to some degree. What I appreciate most (or should I say what makes a knife live on my person in harmony) is functionality and attention to details that relate to functionality in that is the beauty. Yes, I to like artsy fartsy stuff but best when it's integrated functionally!!

Opinions - ok gonna open up a little here now - brace yourself ... ha ha
Already vested in Emerson and aftermarket scales that I think will add both performance & aesthetic value to me (burlap micarta). Do I listen to that little guy on my shoulder that says dump it off, or do I step the course I knew I was getting onto.

If I were to just build this the way my opinion directs me when/why I aquired ... I'd use these burlap scales with a little modification (probably some stippling for grip & texture), zero v-grind the blade, heat treat it to bring up the RC (only if needed after some testing, but my opinion - then determine if a micro or secondary would be needed), drill the liners (weight reduction), electro-ano the liners (protect the Ti and add a little aesthetics at same time 'cause I can do both to improve aesthetics & functionality simultaneously), remove the thumb-disk (gets in the way of maintenance tasks like sharpening), reduce the wave hook to simple thumb opener (don't need a pant pull opener from previous experience with Emerson and other knives, I prefer a knife that comes to hand easily in the closed position because many times I do not need it fully open, and the wave kinda works "too good" imho).

Now the action ... figure out WTF is with the secondary detent.
QUESTION: had planned to wait on this, but it's on the table now - WTF is this about? Is Emerson the only mfr. doing this? Seems to be a bandaid for some other deeper rooted issue. Please don't ridicule, PLEASE fill me in here guys. How, what, why. My opinion is to figure a way to a) eliminate it (easy I think) b) modify it (easy I think - reduce the tension and/or move to ceramic balls on both sides). Washers - so far have no specific grievance with the material other than to say I might consider installing larger diameter (depending on other issues related to the action security & functionality). Oh forgot to mention - the action is not up to what I feel it could be, so willing to roll up my sleeves here too.

I would appreciate any guidance with regard to my potential ignorance regarding my goals here. I am willing to experiment further with the left-handed chisel grind. But not it the principal reason is photogenetics and or because the cutting edge of a knife used to kill people does not matter (because it sure TF does imho, getting thru protective layers or anything resistant is very dependant on the cutting geometry of the edge (modulus of rupture, wedging, directional forces of resistance, etc.) therefore my interest in changing (not because I plan on keeeling someone).

Lot's of opinions there, but there ya have it I suppose.

Time to make some nachos and start thinking about Vikings tonight, hope I have not knocked down a hornets nest ;-)

as I know when opinions fly it seems folks get defensive and
 
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EmersonREP said:
Ok I just got the info. If you sharpen the knife yourself the warranty is still good. EKI may be able to bring the knife back to a chisel edge but they don't sharpen V edges. Honestly it's a case by case basis. If you mess up your blade it's not covered under warranty obviously and you'd have to pay to have it fixed. The warranty is good for the lock and other parts and as long as the ramp hasn't been touched on the blade then you're good.
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Thank you,

That all totally makes sense, and is very reasonable reply.

I appreciate your taking the time to follow up with me here.

I would not have asked a warranty question like this on an open forum except that someone posted something that seemed outlandish, and you had already commented into this thread.

Ernest & crew are lucky to have someone like you that is willing to expend time dealing with this kinda stuff.

Thanks again,
Respect earned
 
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I believe that one of the reasons was also because back in the days, Mr Phil Hartsfield had recommended a few customers to Mr Emerson when they wanted a folding knife, and Phil told them they he didn't do folders, and recommended them to Mr Emerson. Later when Ernie made the folders, he also did a chisel grind, but ground them on the other side to make a distinction between his knives and Phil's.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong.
 
To Spey and other Members,

First let me state that I enjoy and understand your curiosity and enthusiasm concerning the whys and wherefores of Emerson Knives.

First I will address the right or “wrong” side chisel grind. JBravo and Nicklovesknives are both correct. Phil Hartsfield was my friend and I always respected him. The individuals I was working with in the development of the CQC-6 found that it did not matter which side the bevel was on. That’s the long and the short of it.

I would also like to address some other points you’ve made.

Concerning the secondary detent: It is a patented feature allowing adjustment of the detent to be separate from the adjustment of the lock. Very simple, not a “bandaid for some deeper rooted issue.”

As to the issue of the benefits of the chisel grind I’m not even going to get into that. Suffice it to say that after 30 years of leadership in both the custom and production cutlery industry and having produced 10’s of thousands of chisel ground knives for every demographic on the planet, from hard use to $20,000 collectors pieces, the evidence and reputation of the chisel grind are very easy to be had. We have been performance tested by a number of military and government agencies including White Sands for use in Space. Our testimonials fill half a dozen 3 inch thick 3-ring binders.

As to your statement regarding the geometry of the Tanto or Chisel grind in regard to a weapon, one of the reasons the chisel grind was chosen was because of its ease in penetrating soft body armor with very little force. It has to do with a concurrent cutting and shearing action among other things. This being another result of the rigorous testing that was done on the original CQC-6 blade design.

As to your statement regarding the modulus of rupture, wedging and directional forces of resistance, first I ask what is your profession and then I would ask how many times have you actually stabbed a knife into a man or beast? To be concerned about such salient points reminds me of the old “serrations get hung up on clothing or bone” argument that circulated for years before I debunked it publicly time and time again years ago.

As a shooter I’ve also seen such arguments concerning calibers, powder load, ballistics, bullet grain, endless gelatin tests and arguments for or against gun brands ad infinitum. I was taught how to shoot and shoot accurately, under stress with any weapon, pistol, long gun or sub gun that I could pick up regardless if it was a Ruger Mark II or a Barret M50 sniper rifle. One of my SAS friends once told me “Ernest if I didn’t have a rock I would have killed him with a sharp stick.”

There’s an old joke from sniper schools, “The shooters hit the target. Everyone else argues about ballistics.”

My point here is, with all due respect that as Bruce Lee said “It’s like a finger pointing to the moon. Don’t concentrate on the finger or you will miss all of that heavenly glory.”

The point I’m also making here is that if you find so many things that seem inherently wrong or that need improvement in Emerson Knives then maybe we’re not your cup of tea. I don’t know if you’re new to the brand or knives in general but all of this has been discussed in great detail over the years by many knowledgeable knife aficionados and the knives have been real world tested by (now) generations of knife users to their satisfaction. Personally I have cut everything that can be cut by a knife and I have never had a problem using a chisel grind knife right or “wrong side” since their inception over 30 years ago.

Of course all of this is my not so humble opinion.

If you like them then just use them, that’s what an Emerson Knife begs to do.

My Best Regards,

Ernest Emerson


P.S. Using terms like "fanboy" and "koolaid" are demeaning and pretentious at best. By your use of the descriptor, I am a "fanboy" of a variety of items that I believe are the best for my use and it is this type of passion that has always driven my achievements and success in a number of endeavors. In legal arguments its referred to as muddying the water to validate an argumentative stance by labeling others as beneath your perspective. This forum has evolved past those terms by members of the community who frequent this area.
 
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It makes sense that Emerson wouldn't sharpen a reprofiled edge, why should they? It would be like taking a new car, setting up the chasis for racing, then going back to the dealer to have them work on it. That goes for anything that's been modified from the original design. I can't think of any product that once modified would still get serviced by the manufacturer.

I look at it like this, you buy an Emerson for what it is and they way it's built. Some people think they can improve on a design and they're welcome to their opinion. Just don't expect everyone to respect your opinion.....lol
 
I have a Emerson in my pocket most of the time. Mainly the jungle commando, I love everything about this knife.

The more I use it and sharpen it the more I like it.
 

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