Emerson Quality - I want to know the truth

T

The Dogman

Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
64
I've considered buying a 'factory' Emerson knife. I have held off. From talking with dealers and folks at knife/gun shows these are the conclusions I've come to:

* Great designs, incredible design talent, very appealing knives.
* QC problems. Quality varies depending on the knife you get.
* These are mid quality knives selling for premium prices. But,,, worth it to those who love the designs.
* Excellent marketing, very appealing to some folks.
* Folks who use them rough & tumble usually have some complaints about how they hold up.

--- These same individuals say the custom knives are as good as it gets.

I'm not posting this to bash, I would like to get feed back. If I'm off the mark I want to know. There are some who will get indignant because I've posted this. I just want to know the truth. WHAT IS,,, IS. Nothing will change what truly is. I want to know before I spend my money what these knives are really about. Thank you.
 
I have owned my CQC-7 for a little over 7 years. Other than some wear on the black blade finish from use & some worn spots on the handle & clip, it is still running great. I think I easily got my money's worth out of it. My current EKI EDC is a CQC-12 framelock. It locks up tight, feels great in the hand, and the fit & finish are good.

A lot of criticism of the EKI knives comes from the fact they only offer a small amount of designs, the chisel & v-grinds are different, and they don't offer the latest in steel.

But if you like their designs, know how to sharpen them, and don't feel the need to have the latest wonder steel, they are a good knife for the money.
 
I've got a Benchmade CQC7 that has not left my side for 10+ years. It's been an amazing knife and pretty well used. I've only heard good things since Emerson took back production of these. Currently considering an HDCQC7.
 
I carried two different "factory" Emersons for over 6 years. The first was a CQC-7B-SF that I lost (that's a story for another day). After that I ordered a CQC-7BW-BTS. I put them both through their paces. The chisel grind is really easy to sharpen once you get used to it. I have a few friends that also swear by "factory" Emersons. My personal experience with them has been very postive. I did things with those knives that I would never have dreamed of doing with my previous knife (a Beretta Airlight). Admittedly, I've been carrying a Benchmade 510 Presidio for the last two years, but that is only because I wanted to get away from the chisel grind and get a drop point for better day to day cutting tasks. I definitely don't think their prices are inflated unless you're paying the MSRP on Emerson's website. You can find them from reputable dealers for much less. That's usually the case with MSRP. Oh, and the wave feature is great.
 
I think generally the quality is good, i have personaly had a few knives that could easily have been better fitted. (scales, liners and spacer were all a different size) this looks crap but dosnt effect the function of the knife at all. One other thing i find a bit off is the stop pin never fits the scales, they always rattle when the blade is half way. I dont see why this should be the case on a well fitted "top end" knife. But these are small woes in the full light of things id say.
I have used Emersons for what seems like a long time now and have never really had any problems worth shouting about. I work as a forester so my knives do get some good real use ! not just picking my nails and opening letters !!!
And yes, dont pay the amount advertised on the EKI site, you can always get them much cheeper.
 
the F&F on EKI's has been top notch since ~ '02 or so. i personally never saw anything bad about the pre -'02 ones myself.

take stuff ya read on the 'net w/a pinch of salt, EKI has no more QC or F&F issues than any other maker, BM and spyderco included,

never pay retail for an EKI unless its some collector knife or something like that,
 
I'm a new Emerson owner, I got a Mini-7 for EDC and just picked up a new CQC-7 from ebay for a bargin. My first impressions of the mini were that it was very solidly built and had F&F equal to or better than some of my Spyderco's and BM's. Although Emersons are reportedly a little stiff, both CQC-7 and mini open smooth as silk (after a bit of dry moly-lub).

My bottom line is that they are solid and have the quality of any other production knife.:thumbup:
 
Hmm, Quality...
If by Quality you mean fitness for use Emersons do that.

If your looking for precision manufacture with every item being exactly like the last I think you should look elsewhere.

The last example I purchased, a super kerambit, has blob in the coating which is not uniform as well. At least one screw isn't flush with the G10's surface. The linerlock doesn't engage fully. The titanium liner through the side holes are pretty rough, looks like the liners were stamped out of flat stock with no surfacing for appearance at all. Even the screws used to hold the clip down are rough, not highly finished.

If I can find 3 finish issues on a low number, 0065, the first run which ought to be 100% inspected what do you think the knives are gonna be like when they are produced in the thousands and get cursive sample inspection.

From the examples I own Spyderco, Smith and Wesson, Case and Cold Steel are top of the line in manufacturing technology, they have nailed their processes down and every knife is just like the last.

The Emerson's I own while having great design and innovative patents feel like they are made in somebodies garage, which may be their basic charm.
 
My only real complaint with Ernie is that he is fooling himself into thinking a gents liner lock thickness in titanium in a so called hard use knife is anything less than a liability in the hands of those trusting that lock to their fingers in any kind of hard uses. If he had any idea of the number of EKI owners that contacted me privately to talk to me about ways to make their lock more reliable so it would not close unpredictably he would probably realize he needs to move to all frame locks and stay there and that he should have done that like yesterday!

I did some mods to some liner locks at the request of some Emerson knife owners and other brands in the hands of knife owners recently, and it was their idea actually on two separate occasions where I was solicited to do something another maker convinced them at a show was the way to go with liner locks. I did the same modification to my own knife just to show Ernie one and had one sent in the mail for him to look at at the Chicago show hand delivered by my best friend who lives there in Chicago. I also sent the knife with a letter telling Ernie the makers name that uses it in his own tactical liner locks (who is quite repuatable and no its not me) and other details. Ernie told me in a short email reply when he got home that he thought it was a liability to do these modifications. Forgive me my freind because I'm going to have to be a bit harsh here, but that made me laugh a hearty laugh because the truth is, the way I see it, the thin liner lock you are using currently at EKI as a 'hard use' lock is a liability to begin with and somehow you fail to allow that into your consciousness for some reason. The fact that you are concerned with liability at all surprises me when I see the problems with your locks and I mean that with all due respect. I guess the way I saw it was that anything done couldn't make it any worse than it was already.

If you buy an EKI don't waste time with a liner lock. Get the real deal and you'll be fine. Here is the ugly truth if you ask me, and take it for what its worth. Only Emerson's frame locks are worth buying for hard use. Most of these fans of EKI are too blind or too fearful of retaliation or maybe they are just in awe of the crowd of fans and stature behind this man from his reputation to tell it like it is or really dare to complain about something that is obviously cutting corners to me when the price went up and the liners were thinner still when they were already too thin to begin with. Anytime someone says anything outside the standard praise of an Emerson even when praise is the last thing they deserve they are instantly shot down rather than dealt with like it would be from any other company. Its my opinion that this blind loyalty has created this situation where we have what I think is a serious quality control issue. A man needs someone with balls to tell him like it is and apparently Ernie doesn't have that in his life but instead is surrounded by a bunch of brown nosers or people too afraid of him to speak their mind and/or tell it like it is. So here goes, and I'm telling it like it is. Again, take it for what its worth.

I have a lot more I could add but decided it was just too long to post here. If you want it all contact me and I'll gladly share it with you.



STR
 
STR hit the nail on the head. I have said similar before on other forums and was roundly bashed for it so now I don't go there. Are there better knives than EKI's, for sure hands down etc. etc. Decide for yourself what you want in a knife and such and then go from there. Blind loyalty to a brand is good to a point but when you are laying you hard cash down check around what is out there. You might be surprised and then again you may not. keepem sharp
 
STR said:
My only real complaint with Ernie is that he is fooling himself into thinking a gents liner lock thickness in titanium in a so called hard use knife is anything less than a liability in the hands of those trusting that lock to their fingers in any kind of hard uses. If he had any idea of the number of EKI owners that contacted me privately to talk to me about ways to make their lock more reliable so it would not close unpredictably he would probably realize he needs to move to all frame locks and stay there and that he should have done that like yesterday!

I did some mods to some liner locks at the request of some Emerson knife owners and other brands in the hands of knife owners recently, and it was their idea actually on two separate occasions where I was solicited to do something another maker convinced them at a show was the way to go with liner locks. I did the same modification to my own knife just to show Ernie one and had one sent in the mail for him to look at at the Chicago show hand delivered by my best friend who lives there in Chicago. I also sent the knife with a letter telling Ernie the makers name that uses it in his own tactical liner locks (who is quite repuatable and no its not me) and other details. Ernie told me in a short email reply when he got home that he thought it was a liability to do these modifications. Forgive me my freind because I'm going to have to be a bit harsh here, but that made me laugh a hearty laugh because the truth is, the way I see it, the thin liner lock you are using currently at EKI as a 'hard use' lock is a liability to begin with and somehow you fail to allow that into your consciousness for some reason. The fact that you are concerned with liability at all surprises me when I see the problems with your locks and I mean that with all due respect. I guess the way I saw it was that anything done couldn't make it any worse than it was already.

If you buy an EKI don't waste time with a liner lock. Get the real deal and you'll be fine. Here is the ugly truth if you ask me, and take it for what its worth. Only Emerson's frame locks are worth buying for hard use. Most of these fans of EKI are too blind or too fearful of retaliation or maybe they are just in awe of the crowd of fans and stature behind this man from his reputation to tell it like it is or really dare to complain about something that is obviously cutting corners to me when the price went up and the liners were thinner still when they were already too thin to begin with. Anytime someone says anything outside the standard praise of an Emerson even when praise is the last thing they deserve they are instantly shot down rather than dealt with like it would be from any other company. Its my opinion that this blind loyalty has created this situation where we have what I think is a serious quality control issue. A man needs someone with balls to tell him like it is and apparently Ernie doesn't have that in his life but instead is surrounded by a bunch of brown nosers or people too afraid of him to speak their mind and/or tell it like it is. So here goes, and I'm telling it like it is. Again, take it for what its worth.

I have a lot more I could add but decided it was just too long to post here. If you want it all contact me and I'll gladly share it with you.



STR
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oh i too think they should all be frame locks BUT i havent had any more probs with EKI liner locks than say BM or spydie liner locks, i just havent, with use any liner lock is gonna get outta adjustment and imho waving EKI's seems hard on the lock (though my bud has waved his commander probably 10K times with no probs) kinda like inertia opening them a lot, imho EKI locks arent any better/worse than any others, and i'm not brown nosing either by the way, simply stating my experiences with them.

i agree this question is met with contempt on some forums,
 
SIFU1A said:
oh i too think they should all be frame locks BUT i havent had any more probs with EKI liner locks than say BM or spydie liner locks, i just havent, with use any liner lock is gonna get outta adjustment and imho waving EKI's seems hard on the lock (though my bud has waved his commander probably 10K times with no probs) kinda like inertia opening them a lot, imho EKI locks arent any better/worse than any others, and i'm not brown nosing either by the way, simply stating my experiences with them.

i agree this question is met with contempt on some forums,
Click to expand...

this has been my experience as well, with all liner locks. i have never had any liner fail.

my waved eki's get waved a lot. but i also don't baton any of my folders. that is why i have large fixed blades.
 
oh i too think they should all be frame locks BUT i havent had any more probs with EKI liner locks than say BM or spydie liner locks, i just havent, with use any liner lock is gonna get outta adjustment and imho waving EKI's seems hard on the lock (though my bud has waved his commander probably 10K times with no probs) kinda like inertia opening them a lot, imho EKI locks arent any better/worse than any others, and i'm not brown nosing either by the way, simply stating my experiences with them.

i agree this question is met with contempt on some forums,
Click to expand...

I guess I'm just lucky then. I bought three CQC14s and all three were NIB with locks that easily failed simple spine pressure tests and light taps to the tip. That doesn't even begin to touch the ones I'm contacted about, and many times from some already serviced under warranty at least once. My primary gripe is probably more related to the 'hard use' name being applied to a thin gents folder thickness liner lock. Its a delusion to think that and simply not the case no matter who makes it, BenchMade or Spyderco or any of them. And I base this on my own testing and what I've seen in the users knives coming to me for work on a regular basis. Just look in my homepage link and thats just a very small fraction of the ones over the last year and a half if that in those two galleries.

Lastly. Isn't it kind of telling that all Ernie's customs are always thicker stock than the productions? See this to me is a tell all because he knows they are too thin. No one can tell me otherwise. I look forward to the day they go to all frame locks. I'll be a bigger buyer of Emersons once that occurs but until then I don't really care to own anymore of those thin production liner locks.

STR
 
I'm just going to chime in with my $.02. I own 3 Emersons and regularly carry a cqc-10. I had some liner issues with it out of the box, and I sent it back to EKI for adjustment, as well as asking STR about framelock mods. He was very helpful, but once it got back from the shop, my cqc10 gave me much more confidence and I haven't seen the need to bankroll one of STR's framelock mods, yet... Though perhaps someday down the road... Anyway, as far as I'm concerned Emersons are great knives. Flawless, no.. but great nonetheless. I remember a thread on another forum, showing the man (sadly his name escapes me), who owns crusader-forge (formerly trident knives), testing backlocks against linerlocks, in his shop and he found that the backlocks failures tended to be catastrophic whereas the linerlocks would, once pushed past their limits, flex to the point where the blade closed some, but not all the way... He ended up using linerlocks and framelocks in his models for that reason, IIRC. That said, if you want a lock that has the least chance of failure, get a fixed blade... JUST KIDDING! Get an Extrema Ratio and use the secondary lock... :) <off topic> THANKS AGAIN, STR!!! </off topic>
 
No need to thank me. But hey I'm a frame lock fan but picky just the same in many ways about those also. I think badly made back locks and liner locks are a recipe for nerve damage and blood loss personally if you use the folder you carry hard but especially when used for things like hard stabs and combat. I totally agree that the hard flicking can take its toll from Waving but you know other things are probably harder on them.

One of the big advantages to a frame lock is the grip holding the lock secure by physical contact but also I really like the way you can see at a glance the status of the lock up at any time you need to and many times if the lock is moving laterally or vertically you can feel it so you kind of get a bit of a warning that something has changed with it in that regard. I really prefer ones built like the Hinderer XM18 or SnG with a choil allowing the index finger to wrap around the blade in front of the pivot barrel with the middle and other fingers secured around the lock and handle behind the pivot. Of course this is me speaking personally but any frame lock is better than a liner lock I think.

With lockbacks, even though I love em when done great and also with a choil, if you haven't seen the contact or can't take it apart you are basing hard use on a lot of trust and blind faith in whoever made it or manufacturered it. Belief leaves room for doubt and when my fingers are involved I want to know. :thumbup:

STR
 
STR said:
I guess I'm just lucky then. I bought three CQC14s and all three were NIB with locks that easily failed simple spine pressure tests and light taps to the tip. That doesn't even begin to touch the ones I'm contacted about, and many times from some already serviced under warranty at least once. My primary gripe is probably more related to the 'hard use' name being applied to a thin gents folder thickness liner lock. Its a delusion to think that and simply not the case no matter who makes it, BenchMade or Spyderco or any of them. And I base this on my own testing and what I've seen in the users knives coming to me for work on a regular basis. Just look in my homepage link and thats just a very small fraction of the ones over the last year and a half if that in those two galleries.

Lastly. Isn't it kind of telling that all Ernie's customs are always thicker stock than the productions? See this to me is a tell all because he knows they are too thin. No one can tell me otherwise. I look forward to the day they go to all frame locks. I'll be a bigger buyer of Emersons once that occurs but until then I don't really care to own anymore of those thin production liner locks.

STR
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well, i cartainly havent had an experience like yours, maybe your just unlucky??

i think were folks get off track is being so critical of EKI liner locks in particular vs liner locks in general, i have had several spydies and BM's with liner issues, does that make BM/spydie bad?? no, but it does show me that LL are finicky and they go out of adjustment, be it a EKI LL or whatever, there LL are no thinner than BM or spydie, if ya wanna see a thin LL on a knife which is imho marketed as a hard use knife check out the spyderco military.

i dont know that EKI will ever go to frame locks exclusively, they sure dont seem headed that way right now, all the frame lock stuff they make is relatively low production stuff, the great majority of EKI's are liner locks,
 
STR has it exactly right. I love my Emersons but I've had to send a couple back because the levers slipped toward the unlock position - never failed completely though. Their customer service is super fast - had one knife returned to me 7 days after I mailed it!
They're not fancy but that little hook on the top of the blade makes them special like no other knife.
 
I still have my CQC10 and 7. I started really putting these knives to work in the last few weeks without issue. I paid $100-$130 for each. That being said, a Sebenza they are not for sure. A quality knife for the $$ I spent? Absolutly! After having and using my 10 for quite some time now, I had to touch up the edge. Not bad at all for not using the newest blade material. Because I work in the Audio/Video industry, I am constantly using one of my knives to cut through jacketed copper wire as I hate carrying tools or waring a toolbelt. Anyway, with all the copper I have cut through, the 7 is still sharp and the 10 was lightly gone over with a DMT Stone. That being said, I now have my fill of production knives and have only been buying customs for the last few months. Not an Emerson yet! But I would surely jump at the chance.
 
Lotta good comments here but it all boils down to a couple of things:

1. Lots of people are not satisfied with the safety of current production liner locks.

2. Emerson knives are well designed but quality can be spotty.

As for my personal two cents . . . I think Ernie's CQC-7 design is a well refined classic but like most manufacturers, he has to continue to introduce new products to maintain sales levels. This can dilute quality standards, as has occurred to some degree as opposed to his custom work. Emerson and most of the other smaller production knifemakers are in this position.

But I'm right handed and his chisel grind is set up for a leftie. I like his knives and own several but they are not my EDCs.
 
in use you would never notice if it was RH or LH grind, it just doesnt matter unless ya do a lot of fine cutting or utility which isnt what they(EKI) are designed for anyway.

i have edc'd both and for what i use them for it just didnt matter.
 
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