Emerson Quality - I want to know the truth

I've never had an warranty issue with any of about 6 or so emersons I've owned, excepy for my cqc-12. The lock travels to the g-10 side now, but this knife has been used hard for a good while. It was my first really tough frame-lock, so I abused the hell outta it. I haven't sent it in yet, but when I do I plan on buying a new blade for it as I snapped the tip off a 1/4 inch or so. New blade is $80, and I find that resonable on a knife with such a high retail value. Overall, I have been very satisfied with every emerson I've owned. I do hate liner-locks with a passion, but there's have been as good as any I've tried. The frame-locks are sweet knives and I hope they make more eventually. Thier handles are in my opinion the overall best designed I've held of any company.
 
The Emerson handle sells the knives. Ernie's ergonomics are the best around no doubt. The CQC12 is my favorite model he makes. If he comes out with a CQC14 frame lock, a CQC10 frame lock and offers a Mini Commander frame lock though I'll be the first on board buying at least one of each for myself and if he came out with them in green G10 again, I'd buy two of each!

My current travel knife and favorite Emerson is the CQC14 frame lock conversion I did for myself. Now thats what I'm talking about people! If he offered something even remotely similar to this (or any of these at the links I've converted for others) it would blow the competition right out of the park!

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=62036&d=1162368455

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4616715&postcount=7

STR
 
SIFU1A said:
probobly 'cuz there has been lotsa probs with the millies lock lol, imho they putta just make it a lock back, dont see why he needs a new system for it,
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I think if you look around here there have been an equal number of problems with the liner locks by EKI too. I recall at least three threads of liner locks defeating being started recently by end line users of EKI products. I'm sure there are more. I recall one particular story about a guy that stabbed an alligator trying to snatch one of the two fisherman in the boat.

As I recall this gentleman flipped open his Waved liner lock Emerson and stabbed the attacker in the head (something its supposed to be able to do according to the hype by the way) and although neither he or his friend were injured by the alligator looking for a snack to take on a death roll he not only lost the knife but had to go the ER for the defeat of the lock and the nasty cut he got from it closing on his hand defending himself with it in 'combat' with the reptile. The only good thing about that story if true is that the knife did save his life probably but the bad is of course that the unreliable nature of the lock came back to haunt him. If it had been a frame lock he would probably not have lost his grip or the knife and maybe even been able to get a second or third stab in before getting out of there.

STR
 
wow, that's a hellavu story.... I would imagine the hide of an alligator would defeat most folding knives though. I've heard stories of even bullets failing to penetrate a croc's hide.

The hell of it is, although a fixed blade is by far stronger - you are much more likely to carry a folder every day.

I would like to see Emerson introduce more knives with framelocks, or offer it as an alternative on their popular models.
 
STR said:
I think if you look around here there have been an equal number of problems with the liner locks by EKI too. I recall at least three threads of liner locks defeating being started recently by end line users of EKI products. I'm sure there are more. I recall one particular story about a guy that stabbed an alligator trying to snatch one of the two fisherman in the boat.

As I recall this gentleman flipped open his Waved liner lock Emerson and stabbed the attacker in the head (something its supposed to be able to do according to the hype by the way) and although neither he or his friend were injured by the alligator looking for a snack to take on a death roll he not only lost the knife but had to go the ER for the defeat of the lock and the nasty cut he got from it closing on his hand defending himself with it in 'combat' with the reptile. The only good thing about that story if true is that the knife did save his life probably but the bad is of course that the unreliable nature of the lock came back to haunt him. If it had been a frame lock he would probably not have lost his grip or the knife and maybe even been able to get a second or third stab in before getting out of there.

STR
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well, let me tell ya, ya look around here and ya will find problems with anything and everything, including problems with liner locks from probably anyone ya care to mention, along with problems with axis locks, rolling locks, compression locks, frame locks, back locks & slip joints,

i can only state my experiences.
 
Well here is something else to think about, especially for jonshoup about jamming it to the hilt through the lid of a barbecue etc. I found this out through just goofing around with a cutting board of hard maple.

My Commander will not stick into the cutting board. It makes a triangular dent. This is my carry Commander that is hair popping sharp too. It in no way will stick into the wood no matter what the force I use for slamming it in. The other thing you might want to be aware of is that I can feel the liner lock bow or move or whatever you want to call it with the force of the impact. It doesn't disengage it but definetly you can feel it move. The CRKT Falcon moves too just to clarify but it sticks pretty good in the cutting board. My MOD Hornet doesn't move at least not that I can feel. My 710 doesn't move that I can tell either but then again it ain't a liner lock. Kind of wierd actually. My SOCOM elite doesn't move a bit and sticks better than all them.

Just food for thought I guess. I am thinking though maybe thinning the point on my Commander down a bit but maybe not as it may be a good thing as in being hell for stout maybe. Who knows. keepem sharp
 
I think the Commander models are more slashers than stickers. By design the recurve suggests that to me.

I know a lot of folks get upset when I point to things that are less than glorious praise that bother me personally about the EKI products but don't take it to mean I don't support Ernie or recongnize the true gentleman he is or as if I disrespect the man. I just disagree with some of the things coming from his company is all it boils down to. For the money I think they could be a lot better and certainly a lot beefier too.

For example I remember the day I got my first Commander. I ordered one of each of the SARK SF and the Commander both in Green G10 at the recommendation of some guys I knew from the service. Figured hey I'll give them a try right. Well long story short I should have kept both being that they were green I guess but the fact is I was told the Commander was the 'Flagship' model and that I couldn't go wrong with that one. That is how I remember justifying the cost of it to my wife when I ordered it. Back then she was quite the watchdog on spending but things have changed some since then now that we are retired and settled down in many ways. Anyway, upon opening it my wife's words were, after seeing the liners, 'thats the Flagship model huh?' Then she says, 'you are returning that one right?'

In other words the .045 liners were not all that impressive looking even to her. She also said, 'thats terrible how can you trust that?" And yeah, the lock bows inward pretty easy on that old 2000 year model I had back then.

Also, for what its worth to any of you guys thinking I've got some nerve speaking out against some of the things I disagree with about the 'hard use' knife and what it should sport when a folder. I did just order a new HD7 for myself today. So, again, if more besides the CQC12 and HD7 were available in frame locks I'd own those too because no one makes a better feeling knife in the hand than Ernie Emerson. And I'll tell you something else. If any of you were to hold and use my CQC14 .160 frame lock conversion, or one of the other two 14s I did or the CQC10, 8, 13 and on and on you'd demand it too! Its the way to go and he'd be light years ahead of everyone if he just took the plunge. Thats my opinion. Nothing more.

STR
 
I wish they made more Factory frame locks. I carry a cqc 10 and love it . have found cqc 10 custom frame locks but cant afford them.I have two hd's,7&12. love frame lock and trust my fingers with them more than liner locks , but I get better use from the cqc10 style blade.
 
longbow said:
Well here is something else to think about, especially for jonshoup about jamming it to the hilt through the lid of a barbecue etc. I found this out through just goofing around with a cutting board of hard maple.

My Commander will not stick into the cutting board. It makes a triangular dent. This is my carry Commander that is hair popping sharp too. It in no way will stick into the wood no matter what the force I use for slamming it in. The other thing you might want to be aware of is that I can feel the liner lock bow or move or whatever you want to call it with the force of the impact. It doesn't disengage it but definetly you can feel it move. The CRKT Falcon moves too just to clarify but it sticks pretty good in the cutting board. My MOD Hornet doesn't move at least not that I can feel. My 710 doesn't move that I can tell either but then again it ain't a liner lock. Kind of wierd actually. My SOCOM elite doesn't move a bit and sticks better than all them.

Just food for thought I guess. I am thinking though maybe thinning the point on my Commander down a bit but maybe not as it may be a good thing as in being hell for stout maybe. Who knows. keepem sharp
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and this means what??

theyre designed to stick into people not a cutting board, and i would wager they will stick into a person just fine.

if the lock isnt locking up correctly send it to EKI & they will fix it i bet.
 
Well what it means is this. It won't stick into hard wood. It is a knife right, with a point on it so it should stick into the cutting board I would think. Also it means when trying to stick it in the cutting board the liner did not fail. Thirdly I live in the NE and winter is heading this way. Heavy coats etc. etc. Makes me wonder if it would actually penetrate heavy winter clothing or would it bind up on material etc etc? Just food for thought. I have a BM 970 that sticks pretty darn good and rest of the knives do too so no worries really save for the fact it didn't stick.

Look I like the knife alot and carry it more than any other and use it more than any other and the blade condition will prove this. I was just kind of bummed it didn't stick. Not casting aspersions on anything whatsoever just want people to be aware that the Commanders they carry may not stick either. Don't want any surprises. keepem sharp
 
Again I don't think the Commander is the model you want to be doing hard stabs with or 'sticking' type actions. The design of the wider blade, the recurve, the thicker tip and overall the general lock design are all attributes counter to those type actions. Slashing would generally do a bigger more damaging blow than trying to stab with that knife anyway and probably with the majority of them.

I was reading an article last night that covered my beliefs almost exactly that made me think of this thread.

Quote by Steve Bronson Tactical Equipment Review

"My belief, philosophy if you will, is that a knife design is never truly finished. No matter how good it may be judged, there will always be room for improvement. It is the natural evolution. As new materials are developed, technologies evolve and processes are improved, these evolutions should be applied not just to "new" models as some knife companies do, but to all designs and models, regardless if they are an old standard or today's "latest and greatest."

I don't think anyone would argue that the original CQC7 was a tremendous knife. Even in its liner lock form it had many merits that literally changed the face of the tactical knife industry and in many ways became the standard by which all others were judged, at least for a time. Now we know it can certainly be improved on. I don't think anyone would argue that the HD7 is a terrific improvement and a step up in all ways from that original model either. Thats all I was ever saying. Ernie obviously knows this and now I think its high time he offer that same option on all of the models. But hey, I want it all! :D

STR
 
longbow said:
Well what it means is this. It won't stick into hard wood. It is a knife right, with a point on it so it should stick into the cutting board I would think. Also it means when trying to stick it in the cutting board the liner did not fail. Thirdly I live in the NE and winter is heading this way. Heavy coats etc. etc. Makes me wonder if it would actually penetrate heavy winter clothing or would it bind up on material etc etc? Just food for thought. I have a BM 970 that sticks pretty darn good and rest of the knives do too so no worries really save for the fact it didn't stick.

Look I like the knife alot and carry it more than any other and use it more than any other and the blade condition will prove this. I was just kind of bummed it didn't stick. Not casting aspersions on anything whatsoever just want people to be aware that the Commanders they carry may not stick either. Don't want any surprises. keepem sharp
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why dont ya go buy a large roast, cover it with a layer/2 of denim, and stab that?? i betcha it will work fine.

now that would show ya something. stabbing a board?? in the context of SD imho that show ya nothing. unless ya are figuring your assailant will be wearing a cutting board for armor lol.
 
A tanto or spearpoint would be a much better choice for penetration....

I personally think the best EKI all-rounder is your preference out of the 8, 11, 13, 15 or SOCFK-A, not the Commander.

But there are not many knives that can slash and stab with equal efficacy... unless you go with a double edged fixed blade, something along the lines of a broad, double edged short sword IMO (like the Roman Legions carried).

We are drifting off topic here, but its an interesting discussion nevetheless...
 
I've only got two Emersons and they both have small blades (Bullnose Kamabit and CQC14). I really like the CQC14, but I too wish it came as a framelock...I'd be even happier with it.

:)
 
It doesn't hurt to check and make sure that the lock is engaged before you use the knife. All you sh*theads waving these knives sixteen times per day, and then complaining about the liner locks travelling too far. Leaving your pivot screws too loose and then complaining about the liner lock "failing". Flipping the knife open with one had doesn't always engage the lock. Putting oil and sh*t all over the blade tang where it engages the lock doesn't help either. People treat knives like toys, flipping them open, waving them, loosening the pivot, f*cking lubing them up. You are all entitled to your own opinions, but don't you think that owner neglect has led to many (if there are in fact any) of these knives failing??

If there is a video of an Emerson knife failing the spine whack test with the lock properly engaged, I would like to see one, maybe It will change my mind. If there isn't a video of an Emerson knife failing the spine whack test with the lock properly engaged, I would like to see one, maybe it will change my mind.
 
And the Dale Carnegie award goes toooooo ,. . . . . .. .. .

GBeninati!!!. Congrats, dude, we knew you could do it.
 
Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.
I am not really upset, just keeping the convo interesting :) peace
 
If I may offer my opinion,
The costs of inputs for framelocks would travel down to the consumer and I think Ernie wants to moderate the speed at which his company grows. The fact that he offers the CQC-12 and the HD-7 is good, but many people find the price prohibitive--even at grey market prices. If he were to make framelock versions of the rest of his knives, one could be certain that prices would jump up for almost all models to offset costs of designing a new slab, milling them, as well as the huge increase of titanium consumption. A 179.00 dollar CQC-B will suddenly hit the 200 dollar mark given a year and a fair number of knife consumers will just throw their hands up and regard Emerson with the same air that many people regard Strider with--"What's the big idea?"

It's really too bad at the costs of the HD-7s. I've gotten all of my Emersons from the grey market and I agree with you almost entirely, STR. If would be nice if Emerson offered more framelocks, but I argue issues of cost, and practicality. Also, I'd like his company to focus more on QC issues than coming up with new knives. Personally, I think the CQC-15 is silly looking and offers nothing new. It doesn't bother me that the screws have to be adhered with loc-tite, but it does bother me that the current pivot screws seem to fade very easily compared to his older models. The clips are also, for a lack of a better word, crappier than before. I just can't help quite shake the feeling that overal quality has really been compromised somewhere.

Emerson is a luxury brand knife, and most average people would probably run the argument that carrying anything beyond a Swiss Army knife in the pocket is going overboard, save policemen, service personnel, etc. in terms of going for a blade that will perform for a very reasonable price, I opine that Cold Steel is very hard to beat. On the other side of the spectrum you have Strider Knives. I have no opinion of Mick Strider so I'm not going to say anything about him but I really do think that his 400 plus price for his knives have their place. Every consumable has its luxury and economical sides, and Strider is very definitely more flash than utility. I think people will buy Strider not because Strider is necessarily a superior cutting, prying, stabbing tool, but because he or she wants to buy the Vacheron Constantin of knives.

So I admit it, Emerson has liners that don't really fill me with confidence. I've had trouble with both of my EDC Emersons. But I really don't think that this will be changed soon because of the inherent grace of the slab, liner, backspacer, liner, slab formula. It's simple, people are willing to pay for it, and most people will not likely encounter a situation where their liner locks will fail because most people would have opportunity to run. Most of us guys like to carry knives because, let's admit it, it's a legal way to boast a certain level of masculinity.

In the meantime, I'll hard-use my HD-7 for a few more years until even it gives out.

J.
 
I use tetra on all of my knives that are one hand openers that you can take apart. I don't oil the shit out of them, I don't use the wave on any of my EKI's cause I don't like it. I don't snap any of my liner locks open via a wrist flick unless I need it in a big ass hurry. I ain't a shit head either.

I can defeat about any liner lock by stabbing it into a piece of wood and then bringing the handle down at a sharp angle to pull it out. I tend not to use the knives like that but I have done it. A Commander isn't the best stabber I have found which is cool as long as I know its limits and mine. I have been carrying for the past month pretty religously one of my early 970's or my CRKT Falcon. Crappy steel but a very well built knife. EKI's warranty is second to none and the hand ego's are superb. Hence me ordering a non waved 7a pe just last week from Canada of all place. Oh yea I ain't a shit head....keepem sharp
 
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