Engraving:what seems to be the trend?

[Murray White]

some examples of various engravers from our collection

Judy Beaver --

Judy Beaver --

Bob Conley --

Lynton MacKenzie --

Christian Meyer --

Bruce Shaw --

Bruce Shaw --

Jon Robyn --

Brian Lyttle --

Brian Lyttle --

 

[Murray White]

Brian Lyttle --

Brian Lyttle --

Brian Lyttle --

Harvey McBurnette --

Harvey McBurnette --

Dusty Moulton --

Patricia Walker --

Van Barnett --

Martin Butler --

Martin Butler --

 

[Murray White]

Jim Sornberger --

Simon Litton --

Jere Davidson --

Julie Warenski --

Ken Hurst --

Lynton MacKenzie --

Gil Rudolf --

Brian Hochstrat --

Julie Warenski --

 

[Murray White]

Bruce Hutchison --

Roland Robidoux --

Julie Warenski Erickson --

Julie Warenski Erickson --

Bruce Hutchison --

Brian Chovanec --

Roland Robidoux --

From these images collectors and makers can see fine engraving encompassing 34 years all of which makes for artistic additions to the knives on which it was created.

 

[Jason Fry]

My goodness, what a set of pictures!

 

[Mark Knapp]

Wow Murray, those are some amazing pieces. Thanks for showing them.

Foreshortening is what they call the technique Robyn used on the tiger, it's been used since the days of Leonardo to give the image a three dimensional look. But, if you don't care for it, you don't care for it no matter what they call it. A matter of "the eye of the beholder"

There are some I like better than others here, the other tiger, the one by Firmo and Francesca is the one I really like. The only one I don't really care for is the poor lady with no clothes by Wilkerson. I think he's a fine engraver, I just don't really care for that piece, demons and all.

Anyway, it's an amazing art form, nice stuff let's see some more.

 

[Bruce Bump]

Murray that was a treat! Each engraving artist has his/her own style and you've shown that quite well. Thanks for starting off my day right.

 

[Kevin Jones]

I‘m very fond of engraving on knives when done well, particularly when it’s by knifemakers who are also skilled engravers. I believe it gives a maker the opportunity to demonstrate a very broad range of artistic talent from the laborious hammering or grinding of the steel to shape, to the very tedious and detailed task of engraving.

Many knives will benefit aesthetically from the correct style and amount of engraving, however sometimes may not increase the overall value of the piece enough to recoup the cost of the engraving. This would be especially true of knives in lower priced ranges. On the other hand, many engraved knives will benefit aesthetically and will raise the value of the piece significantly above the cost of the engraving. I believe the overall aesthetics of a knife can benefit from engraving at various levels of the skill and doesn't have to necessarily be done by a world renowned master engraver to achieve such.

Engraving appeals to me more when it complements the overall aesthetics and design of a knife as opposed to taking center stage where the knife seems more a canvas for displaying the engraving. I tend to see this quite a bit, especially on folders.

In my opinion, engraving can highlight other detail or features of the knife. In some cases, engraving can be used to mask imperfections or to add a little pizzazz to an otherwise plain piece. I have found that engraving (perhaps with the exception of bulino) adds a little durability as engraved areas of knives (guards/bolsters for example) generally don’t show scratches as much as polished or hand rubbed satin finished areas.

I find it interesting how some Makers and Engravers have both benefitted substantially from collaborating or practically becoming successful teams such as D Alton Holder / Bruce Shaw, Edmond Davidson /Jere Davidson, Steve Johnson / Barry Lee Hands, Curt Erickson / Julia Warenski-Erickson etc.

My favorite knifemaker/engraver is Jerry Fisk. Some of my favorite engravers in no particular order are Joe Mason, Jere Davidson, Julie Warenski-Erickson, and Francesco Amatori.

Here’s some engraving by Francesco Amatori:

Jerry Fisk:

Jere Davidson:

 

[Lorien]

@ Murray;

[video=youtube;gXN1yxax448]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXN1yxax448[/video]

 

[Mark Knapp]

Wow I ain't hatin' none of those Kevin.

 

[Kohai999]

The only one I don't really care for is the poor lady with no clothes by Wilkerson. I think he's a fine engraver, I just don't really care for that piece, demons and all.

Anyway, it's an amazing art form, nice stuff let's see some more.

Do you not care for nudes in general, or just this specific theme? I think the demons are done well, but the female did not look particularly well rendered.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Mark Knapp]

Do you not care for nudes in general, or just this specific theme? I think the demons are done well, but the female did not look particularly well rendered.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

No, I think well done nudes are fine, a nice looking female body is beautiful. I remember fondly my semesters in art class at the University of Alaska. It's just that poor lady, I don't know what was going on the day she was done. More attention to detail was given the demons than the nude. I actually don't even mind demons that much but these are just not appealing to me. Maybe it was the nude that ruined the whole piece for me.

Anyway, I am just one person. I hope the person who owns that knife enjoys it, he may not care for what I do. A knife for every customer and a customer for every knife is what I say.

 

[Murray White]

Lorien -- pretty funny but it is always enjoyable to share knives with all the other collectors and we all know of one other collector (down on the farm) who has the most incredible collection of engraved knives that I have even seen some photos of so maybe we will get lucky and he will post up a bunch. I won't mention his name but he knows who he is and we will be all the richer for his sharing.

 

[Kevin Jones]

 

[The Amazing Virginian]

Murray,

That is some beautiful collection of engraved knives you have there. A collection to be envied.

Amatori . . . well, he is a master. Some of those are not my favorite subject matter, but the quality is outstanding. Exquisite.

Regarding the guard posted above . . .

I like how the gold leaves/petals fit in very naturally with the "silver" colored leaves and petals in the rest of the engraving, instead of the gold appearing to be a completely separate element. That seems organic to me.

But there are some things about that piece that do not make sense to me. It would seem to me that the engraving border should be evenly spaced from the edge of the guard. Instead, however, the border seems to meander, so that in some places it is closer to the edge of the guard, and in other places much further away, as I have tried to illustrate by the red lines in the marked-up picture below. I would think these lines should be the same length, or at least display some kind of symmetry with respect to the shape of the guard. Instead the gap between the border and the edge of the guard just seems to randomly get thicker in some places and thinner in others - the gap seems to be maybe three times greater in some places than in others. Also, the bottom of the engraving border does not seem to aligned with the bottom of the guard. Instead they seem to be slightly offset with respect to each other (the engraving border does not appear to be at "six o'clock"). Maybe there is a good reason for all this, or it is all just an optical illusion, or maybe it is intentional and I'm just some smart enough to "get it." Just looks odd to me, that's all.

The central cutout also seems to be pretty jagged in places . . . but maybe (?) that was supposed to be cleaned up later. Not sure why one wouldn't do that before engraving, to avoid risking damaging the engraving while fixing the cutout. But I guess as long as it is fixed before the knife is completed, it doesn't matter.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Murray,

That is some beautiful collection of engraved knives you have there. A collection to be envied.

Amatori . . . well, he is a master. Some of those are not my favorite subject matter, but the quality is outstanding. Exquisite.

Regarding the guard posted above . . .

I like how the gold leaves/petals fit in very naturally with the "silver" colored leaves and petals in the rest of the engraving, instead of the gold appearing to be a completely separate element. That seems organic to me.

But there are some things about that piece that do not make sense to me. It would seem to me that the engraving border should be evenly spaced from the edge of the guard. Instead, however, the border seems to meander, so that in some places it is closer to the edge of the guard, and in other places much further away, as I have tried to illustrate by the red lines in the marked-up picture below. I would think these lines should be the same length, or at least display some kind of symmetry with respect to the shape of the guard. Instead the gap between the border and the edge of the guard just seems to randomly get thicker in some places and thinner in others - the gap seems to be maybe three times greater in some places than in others. Also, the bottom of the engraving border does not seem to aligned with the bottom of the guard. Instead they seem to be slightly offset with respect to each other (the engraving border does not appear to be at "six o'clock"). Maybe there is a good reason for all this, or it is all just an optical illusion, or maybe it is intentional and I'm just some smart enough to "get it." Just looks odd to me, that's all.

The central cutout also seems to be pretty jagged in places . . . but maybe (?) that was supposed to be cleaned up later. Not sure why one wouldn't do that before engraving, to avoid risking damaging the engraving while fixing the cutout. But I guess as long as it is fixed before the knife is completed, it doesn't matter.

Jerry's border, while not symmetric, is more following the engraving as opposed to the engraving following the border. I like how his scrolls frequently cross the border which is typically how he engraves his guards.

The slight burrs on the guard's tang slot (or 'central cutout' as you put it) will be covered by blade's ricasso when it's pressed fit.

I've always liked Jerry's engraving style. Most all of the Fisk knives I've owned over the years have been engraved by him.

Jerry's not a master engraver, he's a very good engraver IMO who is a Mastersmith and is recognized as one of the very top custom knifemakers on the planet. He proves the point I was making in my earlier post that custom knives (even ones at the top of price scale) don't necessarily have to be engraved by top master engravers to benefit. I'm quite sure you could substitute Jerry's engraving on this piece with that of any other engraver's in the world and the knife would not bring the price that it does with Jerry's engraving.

Other than his basic field grades and military models Jerry's knives are pretty much expected to be engraved by him and collectors pay handsomely for them.

 

[sheathmaker]

Ken, the border overruns which make the border look like it varying in width is really aesthetically necessary. The border is actually very even all the way around, but if you concentrate on just the border, the overlay of the leaves etc. in the engraving could make you think it is varying in width. This technique causes the engraved leaves and scrolls etc. to appear more raised or three dimensional. It's quite common in carved leather renderings as well……and as with leather, very slight imperfection which will be buried deep within the object such as the guard cutout don't give a lot of concern as once it is finished they will never ever be seen.

Paul

 

[Mark Knapp]

I Like the scroll and floral over-runs of the border in Jerry's guard. I think that there is one, maybe two places, though, where the border is wider than it aught to be. One of them is the 5:00 area where Ken marked it in red. To me, it would have looked nicer if there was a sliver of black background between the scroll and the border so that the border could have been consistent. I'm still not hating it though, when I become a National Living Treasure maybe then I can beat up on Jerry a little.

There are quite a few people that value sole authorship, if a certain level of proficiency is reached, more than having the very best person do each element of the knife. I think Jerry has reached that level.

I personally like to do the whole knife myself, many of my customers expect that of me. If my engraving ever reaches a level of proficiency that I can use it on a knife, I will. I'm sure that not everyone will like it.

We all have to start somewhere and we gotta put stuff out early in the game in order to learn from feedback.

Jerry will never make a knife that pleases everybody but the guy can make a knife.

To me, when it comes to the "art" part of an art knife, it cannot be wrong. Jerry's choices are his, he is the artist. Also, opinions on art cannot be wrong. Some like the border to be even all the way around and some like the engraving over-runs. Neither are wrong, they are preferences.

I think it's a mistake to judge an unfinished part of a knife, or an unfinished knife.

PS, I wrote all this because I was asked my opinion on this thread by a couple of different people and because it interests me.

 

[Kevin Jones]

I find it interesting how some Makers and Engravers have both benefitted substantially from collaborating or practically becoming successful teams such as D Alton Holder / Bruce Shaw, Edmond Davidson /Jere Davidson, Steve Johnson / Barry Lee Hands, Curt Erickson / Julia Warenski-Erickson etc.

Thought I would post up some examples of my above statement. Images are from our CKCA Forum ‘engraving sub-forum’. If anyone else has other examples of knifemakers and engravers who regularly work together, please post them up.

Steve Johnson-Barry Lee Hands:

Steve Hoel-Barry Lee Hands:

 

[Mark Knapp]

Impeccable Kevin