Entitlement Issues

Knife laws are very different from gun laws, in that almost everyone is aware of the REAL laws concerning guns where they live and or travel. Knife laws are often the stuff of myths more than reality. Having been a NYC LEO and now a normal member of the community, I can tell you most officers have little real understanding of the knife laws. You can easily cross a county/city line and now be breaking the law where as you were in legal possession of the same knife just feet away from your present location. You should carry a SIMPLE folding knife when travelling to different areas so as to comply with local laws. I must admit that in post 911 NYC, I do not carry a knife anywhere while I am working as I have to pass through metal detectors everyday. Many private offices have a no knife policy in effect.
Labella, there is no "liner lock" ban in NYC per se. I will argue this to any lenght as I just had lunch on Friday with a Chief from the NYPD at One Police Plaza, and I asked him to check with the legal division on any knife law changes as of late. Nothing new to report, still 4" lenght in NYC, still no gravity, switchbaldes or dangerous knives. I asked about assited openers again, as was told they are gravity knives as no one has yet to come accross one that does not flick open as easily as it opens via the assited method. Most liner locks can be flicked open, but they are not banned out right. I heard the same thing about thumb studs awhile back also, which had no basis in the real world of law....
 
LaBella said:
TKC, therein lies part of the problem. No one knows, also what if the officer is having a bad day, a bad week.. a bad life???


Many different scenarios can play out.

I know in today's world we cannot be "entitled", yet many of us feel we are.

Look at NYC- liner locks are now gravity knives.
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My experience was that an officer didn't know the knife length law in my area. However, he was very nice about looking up the law and letting me know that I was right and the length was ok.

I don't like many of the knife laws and there are far too many differences in the knife laws from state, to county, to city. It becomes very easy to make a mistake about what is legal. However, I do try to stay legal when I carry a knife.

Just because you're murdered someone and not been caught doesn't mean you've not broken the law.

Rather than ignoring the law, a more constructive thing to do would be to get the laws changed so that you have the liberty to carry the knives you like.
 
A lot off hoods have very deliberately vague laws . When I was in LE there were certain sections that were said to be "made of rubber " . Generally I make a friendlynod in the direction of legality , and go for out of site , out of mind ( especially in urban areas ). In rural areas , small towns , noone cares too much .

Some terms are very hard to define - ie: dagger , dirk , bowie knife , dangerous knife ....

My learned friend Powernoodle is a vetran lawyer and knows statute , case law , and general judicial leanings in his juristiction. Thats a rare skill set .

Concealment is not always a simple concept . On a trail in a state park , a FB under your rain gear prolly wont get ya busted . The same knife IWB under an untucked shirt , outside a night club = a bust ! In my hood , the prosecution has to establish A) that the device is a weapon , and B) that there was malice ( Intent ) .

You also have to watch out for statues dealing with breach of the peace , brandishing . Generally some indication of intent is required ... but that is very open to interpretation . Waving a sword around in a theatrical production is cool , some asshat punk doing " martial arts" moves in a public park with an E-bay POS repro Katana could well be a bust .

In my hood there isnt word one on blade length , that said I woulld much rather try to explain a 3" folder than a 6" folder . Ditto for double edged stuff .

Knife related charges are often a "tack on " charge , as a result of other criminal/antisocial action .

Chris
 
IMO people waaay too big of a deal out of stoop knife laws... I carry autos more than half the time, even though its against the law in my state... been shook down plenty (>10X) and had a knife on me everytime -usually an automatic-... , even been arrested with a L-UDT on me (I wasn't arrested because of the knife) and it was returned to me in the little paper bag w/ all my other stuff when I got out of jail... I HAVE had a lecture or two from cops about how I should be careful because it could open up in my pocket and stuff... :jerkit: but I've never been fined or gotten into any trouble because of a knife, auto or otherwise... honestly, I don't even know of anybody that has. :rolleyes:
 
I have only one thing to say about self defense, "It's better to be judged by twelve, than carried by six.":thumbup:
 
tom19176 said:
Labella, there is no "liner lock" ban in NYC per se. I will argue this to any lenght as I just had lunch on Friday with a Chief from the NYPD at One Police Plaza, and I asked him to check with the legal division on any knife law changes as of late.

I asked about assited openers again, as was told they are gravity knives as no one has yet to come accross one that does not flick open as easily as it opens via the assited method.
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My Benchmade 670 Apparition won't flick open, and neither will my CRKT Hissatsu.

I have some linerlocks that won't flip open, but they are pretty tight.

What's been going on in NY is criminal on the part of LE.
 
Now that I can see what this thread is about ... let’s see if we can find the right forum for it …
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The written court decisions I've read on carrying a knife as a concealed weapon almost always arise when someone has committed another crime and the knife was found during the arrest.

But there's exceptions. Look at BF member Garageboy whose Paramilitary was confiscated at Grand Central Station. He was minding his own business at the time. I suspect he was targeted primarily because he's a young man. I just think LEOs scrutinize young men more because, face it, young men commit most of the crime in this country.

The point is, if you're determined to carry whatever you want wherever you want, what do you look like to a LEO? Are you dressed in a black tee shirt and dirty jeans with holes, covered with tats and piercings, with long hair (or shaved head)? If so, you're going to attract a lot more attention from a LEO in most places than someone wearing clean clothes with a normal haircut and his shirt tucked in. If you're discreet and don't commit crimes, you probably going to be okay. Just common sense.

That said I obey the law. In Ohio, where I live, there's no blade limit written in any statute.
 
joe -bob, I have a Benchmade 670 Apparition and it will flick open. Don't forget we are talking about a hard flick.., in fact officers have taken three or four tries in court to make it open once that way and the judge has allowed it. I don't have your CRKT, but I do have a bunch of Kershaws, Bucks and SOGS all of which do flick open in addition to AO opening. These have now become my legal fishing/hunting knives in NY but not legal to carry otherwise. I agree the law and way it is enforced is in no way fair, but it is not criminal as it is not illegal.
Just as you must adjust your speed when driving you must also know and obey local weapons laws or be willing to pay the concequences....
 
If you carry a knife you are always accepting a certain amount of risk, as such I do not feel that such a philosophy is so unreasonable.
But if you're carrying for self defense I would strongly advise not to use this so called 'entitlement' justification. If you are carrying that knife with the intent of using it as a weapon, do your self a favor, keep it as legal as possible.
 
joe-bob said:
My Benchmade 670 Apparition won't flick open, and neither will my CRKT Hissatsu.
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My Hissatsu won't flick open, but I'm wary of having it on me when I go to NYC because I'm pretty sure
it could be classified as an illegal "dangerous knife".

In NYC I carry a couple of knives. A medium Cold Steel Voyager with VG-1.
It is very sharp and will not flick open, even when held by the blade.

I also carry a fully serrated Emerson Hard Wear Traveler, an out of production
Japanese made knife which is incredibly sharp.
It also cannot be flicked open even when held by the blade.

Both knives have 3 inch blades.

What's been going on in NY is criminal on the part of LE.
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Definitely agree
 
DaveH said:
yeah, I'm with the cougar on this, wut?

Here's my take, it's only illegal if you get caught, otherwise do as you want and accept the risk.
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If something is illegal, it's illegal whether you get caught or not.

Character is how you act when no one is watching.
 
Gmountain said:
If something is illegal, it's illegal whether you get caught or not.

Character is how you act when no one is watching.
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And if the person doing the watching isnt on their best game...then what?


See what I mean. Blade size and all of that are BS if it is left up to the officer stopping you or whatever. The 4 finger "law" for instance. What if Andre the giant (RIP) was the arresting officer?

All left up to chance?
 
Quoted by joe-bob "Abuse of authority to shake down law-abiding citizens is illegal." The NYPD Academy teaches them this is OK and LEGAL. They have created a test for a gravity knife that allows it to be flicked open ( even while holding the blade) and the courts have upheld this to date. If an officer "steals" the knife by taking it and not charging you then that would fall into your abuse of authority. What has occurred is a city with over 40,000 sworn officers has told them how they want the laws enforced, and has given them reason to make a certain number of arrest to shown they are productive at their jobs. Don't blame the officer for doing his job rather seek to legally change the law.
 
LaBella said:
And if the person doing the watching isnt on their best game...then what?


See what I mean. Blade size and all of that are BS if it is left up to the officer stopping you or whatever. The 4 finger "law" for instance. What if Andre the giant (RIP) was the arresting officer?

All left up to chance?
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there is no four finger law. Anyone who says this is a correct application has no idea what they are talking about.

What he is referring to is personal integrity regardless of who is looking, or not looking for that matter.

but i see your point, ron.
 
KeithAM said:
The written court decisions I've read on carrying a knife as a concealed weapon almost always arise when someone has committed another crime and the knife was found during the arrest.

But there's exceptions. Look at BF member Garageboy whose Paramilitary was confiscated at Grand Central Station. He was minding his own business at the time. I suspect he was targeted primarily because he's a young man. I just think LEOs scrutinize young men more because, face it, young men commit most of the crime in this country.

The point is, if you're determined to carry whatever you want wherever you want, what do you look like to a LEO? Are you dressed in a black tee shirt and dirty jeans with holes, covered with tats and piercings, with long hair (or shaved head)? If so, you're going to attract a lot more attention from a LEO in most places than someone wearing clean clothes with a normal haircut and his shirt tucked in. If you're discreet and don't commit crimes, you probably going to be okay. Just common sense.

That said I obey the law. In Ohio, where I live, there's no blade limit written in any statute.
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unless we can talk to the arresting officer, see the arrest report, see the court documents, or all of the above, we have only garageboy's side with which to form an opinion.

while i dont think he lied in his thread, his version is certainly and rightfully biased.
 
For me all blade lengths are legal, but I would feel strange carrying a 7+ inch blade, just for public sense. It may not be illegal, but I don't necessarily want to draw that much attention to myself.
 
Side note...."Are you dressed in a black tee shirt and dirty jeans with holes, covered with tats and piercings, with long hair (or shaved head)?"
LOL what "thug" criminal looks like that now? Maybe when I was a kid (cause that IS what I looked like) but not anymore. Its been "Gangsta" since about 1992.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
unless we can talk to the arresting officer, see the arrest report, see the court documents, or all of the above, we have only garageboy's side with which to form an opinion.

while i dont think he lied in his thread, his version is certainly and rightfully biased.
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It's not the bias issue, it was simply as this:

Walked down the stairs, t-shirt was not covering the PMil's giant clip, they saw it and I got hit with "plain view" NOT "gravity knife"
 
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