Epoxied My First Set of Scales

L

lloydxmas250

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Apr 5, 2013
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31
Well, I'm plugging away at my first knife kit. I epoxied the scales onto the tang tonight. I followed the scale making pdf from the stickies section as closely as I could. Got the scales near the bolster just how I wan't them. I drilled tiny dimples on the insides to grab the epoxy. Cleaned everything with acetone. And finally, mixed the epoxy and applied.

Now since I was following the tutorial of someone who knows what he's doing he doesn't mention some things that I'm curious about. First off, as I've never used epoxy before, I was quite messy with it and ended up getting a fair amount on the outside of my scales. I cleaned as much as I could off with paper towels with a very faint amount of acetone and a wood pick scraper I made. I also cleaned the tang as best I could. Despite my best efforts, it always seemed like there was a lite film of epoxy that I couldn't clean up on the outside of my scales and on the tang. While I feel it should clean up through some sanding what I'm wanting to know is, is it common to have this film, or was I just sloppy my first time? Either way it's currently setting and I'm not even going to touch it for 24 hours.

Any feedback is appreciated. I'll let you guys know how they turned out tomorrow night. Thanks in advance.
 
Epoxy cleans up easily before it sets if you wipe it with acetone. I clean the epoxy off of the ricasso using acetone before it sets and usually have to do it a couple of times because it'll continue to squeeze out for a few minutes. I leave the rest of the squeezed out epoxy alone because I'll sand the handles down after glue up anyway.
In your case the cured epoxy haze may come clean with acetone and a little bit of elbow grease; if not then you'll have to scrape or sand it off.

Btw, in the future it's best to use denatured alcohol to prep before gluing. Acetone leaves residue so your surface isn't perfectly clean. You'll probably be alright though.
 
If you have made your scales to fit before gluing, put some vaseline or wax on them and any epoxy will wipe off before it dries or flake off after. If you wait until after gluing to finish your handles, you will sand or file off the excess epoxy.
 
Yeah. I could clean the bolster really well since it's so exposed but the scales around the pins and the groove created by the slightly larger scales and the tang were more difficult. Next time I'll try the Vaseline trick on the outside of the scales. And I'll be sure to use denatured alcohol for cleaning next time. I thought the acetone was good enough since it's used to clean up. Thanks for the help.
 
I would say to forget the vaseline. It just adds one more possible thing to mess up the epoxy bond.

Just clean up the front well with acetone, wipe of any great amount of excess elsewhere, and sand the rest off when finishing the handle. I don't know anyone who doesn't have to sand/shape the handle to some degree after assembly. Trying for a prefect finish and fit pre-epoxy is very unlikely to be a perfect fit.

(The previous statement obviously does not include take down handles, and elaborate damascus blades.)
 
Not sure... but sounds like maybe you were following the little tutorial I put together several years back for some customers that bought blade blanks from me.

I agree about following the acetone with alcohol (even though I didn't do it back then). The acetone gets off grease, grime, fingerprints and such, and the alcohol will get rid of the very very fine film the acetone leaves. It will greatly enhance the bond. :)
 
So if using alcohol will take off the film and enhance bonding, can I expect this bond to be weak, or just not as strong? I really don't completely intend on this being a hard working knife. More of a proof to me that I can do it. I'll adjust my future work accordingly.
 
It's very unlikely that your scales are going to fall off under normal use. I've glued a few on after only cleaning with acetone and they haven't fallen off. There are bigger issues than cleaning with acetone such as not scuffing your surfaces first or having a glue starved joint.
 
bladsmth said:
Did you use any pins/rivets at all?
Click to expand...

Yes. The kit came with smaller pins and the tang holes were 1/4". I don't like the smaller pins so I found some stainless steel 1/4" at the hardware store. So I used it. I put the rod in a drill like a bit and used some sand paper to make it fit. I cut a groove in the center to give the epoxy more to grab on to.
 
Here's a new question for you veterans. I left the pins a but long and although I'm willing, it would take quite a while to file them down. My question is can I use the cutting wheel on a dremel to take them down a bit? Not extremely close but to help a bit. The main reason I worry is it causes the pins to heat up quite a bit and I can imagine that could play with the epoxy.
 
No veteran here but....I almost always have about 1/8 of the pin stock sticking out on both sides and usually use a hacksaw to get it almost flush before I grind it down while Im shaping the scales since I always like to start with well oversized scale thickness. I am still quite new at this and I like to give myself PLENTY of room for error. remember you can always take more off but you cant put more on.

BTW I like to put the pin stock in a drill as well and clamp a hacksaw blade in my vise and put a few grooves for exactly the reason you stated.
 
You can use a cut off wheel. Make sure you wear safety glasses...you should be wearing them anyway;).
Heat build up will soften the epoxy if it gets high enough (it'll also discolor some handle materials) so just take your time and let the pins cool. Cut a little bit on one pin, then move on and cut a little on another pin to allow the first one to cool, etc.
 
Does denatured alcohol just refer to the ordinary isopropyl alcohol? That seems to leave a residue. Or are we talking about something different?
 
Denatured alcohol is ethanol with a little methanol mixed in. Isopropyl alcohol is typically sold as rubbing alcohol with varying amounts of water. Both should leave a residue free surface, however since denatured alcohol doesn't have water it evaporates quicker and sometimes undissolved stuff in rubbing alcohol will be left behind in the water as it dries.

You find denatured alcohol in hardware stores in the paint/chemicals section. If you only have access to rubbing alcohol that's fine too, but try to find the 90% stuff rather than the typical 70%.
 
I tend to be fairly neat with my adhesive, so I don't have it everywhere. I don't worry about getting any on the outside of my scales as long as I keep the fronts clean. I do that with an acetone wipe several times after clamping. My handles are always well oversized when they get glued on, with only the front actually finished and the rest just sort of roughed to the profile of the tang to reduce how much I have to remove later. There could be as much as half an inch overhang in places. It's all getting ground off later, so any epoxy overflow is ignored.
For pins I leave them sticking out about a quarter inch generally, sometimes less on small knives but usually around there. Often it sticks out barely at all on one side but that full quarter inch on the other, to make it easy to rotate or grab with pliars if needed. That's mostly for when I'm working with mosaic. I use slightly oversized holes in my tangs and scuff up my pins pretty well. Then when I'm applying the epoxy I fill that hole before placing the second scale. Essentially the pin is bedded in an epoxy plug. The other lightening holes get a similar treatment.
The adhesive I'm using is Loctite E-120HP and while the initial purchase isn't cheap due to the applicator, it's very economical for ongoing use. You're still talking a premium adhesive, but it's an insignificant part of my cost per knife, on par with the acetone, rubber gloves and paper towels.

Right now I have a test knife I made with CPM154, canvas micarta and the E-120HP, no pins. I've beat on that handle pretty well with no issues. I plan to run it through the dishwasher a few times soon, and stick it in the freezer then beat on it some more in ways that simulate rough use in the dead of winter. Unfortunately we just didn't have enough really cold days after I had it ready to do that for real.
 
Think this was mentioned but don't worry to much about getting epoxy on the scales or metal except on the polished front of the scales. The tang should be refinished anyways to get the lengthwise finish on them. I put wax on the polished areas of the scales and the epoxy pops off easily. Ive found the epoxy pops off more easily if it's thicker.
 
Will Leavitt said:
I put wax on the polished areas of the scales and the epoxy pops off easily. Ive found the epoxy pops off more easily if it's thicker.
Click to expand...

I do the same thing, Will. Wax will keep epoxy from sticking to areas of your knife that you don't want glued.

TedP
 
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