epoxy

Matthew Gregory said:
Only checked in because an old friend mentioned this thread to me, and out of morbid curiosity I was fool enough to look.

There’s no real point in posting in here, and I have no intention of explaining any processes, because no one will listen, or they’ll nitpick without bothering to examine, or they’ll reply over me in bold, colored text while continuing to be proven wrong. Knifemakers certainly aren’t the only ones to display this behavior, but they’re likely some of the worst offenders. Rather than seeking out input from sources with actual, credible, calculated and scientifically sound answers, they’ll form a sewing circle where voices that ought not have any weight or merit are somehow regurgitated as gospel. The absolute LAST place I would look for solid information is in a forum like this.

Here‘s the only input I’ll offer, and I can say with complete assurance that it will unequivocally fall upon deaf ears: if you’re looking to build a bridge, contact an engineer with experience building bridges. Don’t ask Chet at the town hardware store. All the internet research in the world isn’t going to turn up information worth a shit, because you don’t understand enough to parse through it and discern the dreck from the gold.

Adhesive manufacturers - real ones, used by companies that RELY on adhesives, like aerospace - all have customer service people. Their jobs are to help you not only understand HOW to use their products, but to also help you choose the CORRECT product for your application. This thread is specifically about epoxy, but even a brief skim through it shows me that many of you probably shouldn’t even be using epoxy the way you are, and would be better suited to other adhesives. The only reason I recognize this is because I’ve talked with engineers that work for some of these companies that have helped me. They’re not guessing - they can’t afford to guess. Lives can be at stake with their other customers. I just get the advantage of all of the testing and research they’ve done for real customers.


But don’t take my word for it. I’m merely a schlub sticking parts together in my basement while I play knifemaker.
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None of that is helpful. We can’t take your word for it because you didn’t tell us anything. I’m not trying to be rude. I’d honestly and truly appreciate any insight you or any other experienced maker can offer on the subject. I once spent a month going down an HRc testing rabbit hole based on a random comment DevinT made that I didn’t understand but didn’t doubt based on his expertise. I’m a member here because I’m trying to learn as much as I can about this whole knife making thing as possible. I want the stuff I make to be right. We may not all have that much experience but we’re not all as dumb and unwilling to listen as you think. Hell, I’m willing to bet there’s an engineer or two involved in this very discussion.
 
ScarFoot said:
None of that is helpful. We can’t take your word for it because you didn’t tell us anything. I’m not trying to be rude. I’d honestly and truly appreciate any insight you or any other experienced maker can offer on the subject. I once spent a month going down an HRc testing rabbit hole based on a random comment DevinT made that I didn’t understand but didn’t doubt based on his expertise. I’m a member here because I’m trying to learn as much as I can about this whole knife making thing as possible. I want the stuff I make to be right. We may not all have that much experience but we’re not all as dumb and unwilling to listen as you think. Hell, I’m willing to bet there’s an engineer or two involved in this very discussion.
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No, in point of fact I told you precisely how to get the information you need. You demonstrated exactly why I don’t post here anymore. What you want is everything handed to you - footwork that others have already done, spelled out for you without any real effort on your part beyond surfing the forum. If you can’t read what I’ve posted and take the initiative to get the information for yourself, I can’t help you, and frankly no one else likely can, either.

There are a variety of ways you can react to this. My guess is that you’ll choose to take offense, and think I’m just being mean-spirited. Or, you can see it for what it ought to be, and that is a challenge to reach beyond this cesspool and get real information from people that specialize in the products and processes you need help with. THAT is the spirit of my post, and any other way you elect to take it is upon you, not me.

I’ll see my way out, now.
 
Matthew Gregory said:
No, in point of fact I told you precisely how to get the information you need. You demonstrated exactly why I don’t post here anymore. What you want is everything handed to you - footwork that others have already done, spelled out for you without any real effort on your part beyond surfing the forum. If you can’t read what I’ve posted and take the initiative to get the information for yourself, I can’t help you, and frankly no one else likely can, either.

There are a variety of ways you can react to this. My guess is that you’ll choose to take offense, and think I’m just being mean-spirited. Or, you can see it for what it ought to be, and that is a challenge to reach beyond this cesspool and get real information from people that specialize in the products and processes you need help with. THAT is the spirit of my post, and any other way you elect to take it is upon you, not me.

I’ll see my way out, now.
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Wisdom is like seed on the wind. Most falls on infertile ground, but once in a while it lands in the right spot at the right time. I wonder if this is one of those times, Matt? You did well here, and said good things, my friend. Perhaps.

Oh, and, in keeping with the old days, don’t let the door… 🤣
 
I think what Matthew Gregory Matthew Gregory is trying to say, but can’t seem to say without sounding like he’s got sand in his shorts and PTSD from epoxy threads, Is, “ask an adhesives customer representative”.

… which is a really lazy way of defining the authority bar so high that no one here could possibly meet it.

Personally, the combined number of seasoned knife maker pros have enough practical experience that I think asking the question here could yield some good results.

Of course if I was that Crazy Glue guy, bonded to an I beam, I’d contact a professional customer rep.
 
Matthew Gregory said:
No, in point of fact I told you precisely how to get the information you need. You demonstrated exactly why I don’t post here anymore. What you want is everything handed to you - footwork that others have already done, spelled out for you without any real effort on your part beyond surfing the forum. If you can’t read what I’ve posted and take the initiative to get the information for yourself, I can’t help you, and frankly no one else likely can, either.

There are a variety of ways you can react to this. My guess is that you’ll choose to take offense, and think I’m just being mean-spirited. Or, you can see it for what it ought to be, and that is a challenge to reach beyond this cesspool and get real information from people that specialize in the products and processes you need help with. THAT is the spirit of my post, and any other way you elect to take it is upon you, not me.

I’ll see my way out, now.
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I don’t want anything handed to me. I’ve worked hard and earned everything I’ve ever had. I was also taught to learn from people with experience. That’s what I’m trying to do here. I‘m not trying to take shortcuts but I work in an industrial setting and have had to deal with vendors daily for nearly 20 years. They all assure me their products are the best and perfectly suited for whatever my needs are at the time. I don’t want to hear from them in this case. I want to hear from the people that use them. I’m not offended and I don’t think you’re being mean spirited. I‘m sure this conversation has played out a million times here and I have no doubt it gets old after a while. YOUR EXPERIENCE as well as that of the other makers on here matters to me. That’s what I’m trying to learn from.
 
Most of the really great knife makers I know are anti social curmudgeons and almost none of them participate in this forum because most of the vociferous folk here are so concerned with having their say, regardless of whether there's any value to it or not, they just can't let someone post something real without responding with some churlish butthurtedness. SAD!
 
Well… looks like this thread is no longer about epoxy, and more about people quarreling. That’s the sad part. I don’t care who started it, but the long-timers should know better.
 
Moderator - OK guys, Lel's all just cool it.
This thread started 10 days ago with a very simple question ... and look where we have gone!

Matthew has lots of experience and while he may come off harsh, it is because he has heard the same questions hundreds of times. He has also heard many folks offer advice with no real experience. We have had "glue Wars" threads and many threads just like this one in the past. Most are available with the custom search engine.

Devin Thomas has made more damascus than half of the folks on this forum combined. He knows a thing or two. He was inducted into the Knifemaking Hall of Fame
When he offers help with someone's project, there is always someone who asks why he does that or says they know a better way.

Larrin Thomas has gone far beyond helpful to knifemakers. He did thousands of hours of research and wrote a book that answers almost every "How do I HT XYX" question, But people still ask those questions over and over. Larring politely even will post the link to the answer in his book or KnifeNerds website. He isn't a hobby maker, he is a professional metallurgist. Still they want him to tell and explain them the answer instead of reading the advice and links he posts. Personally, I think everyone should read his book before making their first knife. It would end at least 10% of the Hod Do I threads.

There are a lot of folks here who offer help and advice for free. They take time every day to read other people's posts and offer free advice, help, and often materials and machines. They usually have experience in the fields discussed and have made more knives than most members will make in ten lifetimes. Fellows like Horsewright, who has a cattle ranch to run, horses to tend, a large leather garment and accessory business, make LOTS of knives, have a big family and lots of friends ... and still takes the time to check the forum daily and offer his advice and help. From me and most everyone here -Thanks Dave and those like you.
We have had great knifemakers and metallurgy folks here in the past. The main reason most left was over arguing. The other was people posting nonsense. I think we guys like Kevin Cashen's advice and experiences. The list is long. Some still hang around, like Matthew, but just don't bother to offer advice that can be found easily, or where there will be an argument.

When it comes to threads like this one, folks need to remember that we aren't building rockets, we are mostly home-shop knifemakers with limited equipment. WE don't need the max adhesion to glue a handle on a tang. We just need a good and reliable method. There are several methods and opinions of which is "best". Best for a commercial maker isn't always Best for a small hobbyist. This is especially true of HT. The new guy with a small homemade forge and not experience isn't going to get a lot of help from someone's advice that is geared to a high-grade HT ovens liquid nitrogen, and a Rockwell tester. He needs advice from people with plenty of experience doing HT with equipment like his.

Then we have people like Natlek. He is abrasive and argumentative and some of his information is not helpful. He regularly argues or starts arguments for no reason. The fact that he can make knife making machines from scrapyard odds and ends is pretty amazing, but much of his advice and comments isn't helpful. He regularly disagrees with long proven and accepted and tried-and-true methods. Some of the difficulty may be in language translation. Natlek - I have had numerous complaints about your posts. Take a break and relax for a while. No need to question everyone postings.

Last, we regularly have a person from another country than the USA ask for advice or suppliers. Yes, there are actually other countries. People will still offer advice saying, I get my glue from Pops, or use West System form US Boat. Nothing wrong with that except it is of no help to the person asking.

I'm not saying there can't be different methods of getting a good result, new and improved ways of doing things, or that every old timer is the fount of knowledge, but all this arguing over petty things that can only derail someone's path to knowledge. Let's all try and cut it back a bit. If you have good info or a reference to offer, do so. If you disagree with something, say it gently and let it be.
 
From West System ..........

Teak/oily woods
Wipe with acetone 15 minutes before coating with epoxy. Solvent removes the oil at the surface and allows the epoxy to penetrate. Be sure the solvent has evaporated before coating. G/flex Epoxy is optimum for use with oily wood species.

Porous woods
No special preparation is needed before applying the epoxy. If the surface is burnished, possibly by a dull planer or saw blades, sand with 80-grit paper to open pores. Remove dust.

Steel or lead
Remove contamination, sand, or grind to bright metal, coat with epoxy then sand fresh epoxy into the surface. Re-coat or bond after first epoxy coat gels.

Aluminum
Dry sand with 80-grit before applying the epoxy.
Polyester laminates
Clean contamination with a silicone and a wax remover such as DuPont Prep-Sol™ 3919S. Sand with 80-grit paper to a dull finish, then apply epoxy.

Plastics
Adhesion with epoxy varies. G/flex epoxy is the optimum choice for bonding plastics. Hard, rigid plastics such as PVC, ABS, and styrene achieve better adhesion with good surface preparation and an adequate bonding area. After sanding, flame oxidizing (by quickly passing a propane torch over the surface without melting the plastic) can improve epoxy bonding in some plastics. It’s a good idea to conduct an adhesion test on a plastic that you are uncertain
 
Insulting or Rude behavior
Matthew Gregory said:
No, in point of fact I told you precisely how to get the information you need. You demonstrated exactly why I don’t post here anymore. What you want is everything handed to you - footwork that others have already done, spelled out for you without any real effort on your part beyond surfing the forum. If you can’t read what I’ve posted and take the initiative to get the information for yourself, I can’t help you, and frankly no one else likely can, either.

There are a variety of ways you can react to this. My guess is that you’ll choose to take offense, and think I’m just being mean-spirited. Or, you can see it for what it ought to be, and that is a challenge to reach beyond this cesspool and get real information from people that specialize in the products and processes you need help with. THAT is the spirit of my post, and any other way you elect to take it is upon you, not me.

I’ll see my way out, now.
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I agree with you that we can find answers in other places ... But what is wrong to discuss various topics related to making knives here ? If there weren't all those topics in one place like this forum ... I would still wander around the net looking for answers to some questions . .........

Why you started this topic here ? Why didn't you ask the experts in Evenheat ?


Why you ask this question here ? There are books you can read if you what to know more about * martensite* ?

 
You want to know why he made those post 16 years ago?

Pathetic.
 
EngrSorenson said:
I think what Matthew Gregory Matthew Gregory is trying to say, but can’t seem to say without sounding like he’s got sand in his shorts and PTSD from epoxy threads, Is, “ask an adhesives customer representative”.

… which is a really lazy way of defining the authority bar so high that no one here could possibly meet it.

Personally, the combined number of seasoned knife maker pros have enough practical experience that I think asking the question here could yield some good results.

Of course if I was that Crazy Glue guy, bonded to an I beam, I’d contact a professional customer rep.
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EngrSorenson said:
Well… looks like this thread is no longer about epoxy, and more about people quarreling. That’s the sad part. I don’t care who started it, but the long-timers should know better.
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dude, you made two posts in this thread, both of which could be construed as argumentative.
You get the eye roll emoji! No epoxy for you!
:rolleyes:
 
Natlek said:
I agree with you that we can find answers in other places ... But what is wrong to discuss various topics related to making knives here ? If there weren't all those topics in one place like this forum ... I would still wander around the net looking for answers to some questions . .........

Why you started this topic here ? Why didn't you ask the experts in Evenheat ?


Why you ask this question here ? There are books you can read if you what to know more about * martensite* ?

Click to expand...
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Natlek said:
I agree with you that we can find answers in other places ... But what is wrong to discuss various topics related to making knives here ? If there weren't all those topics in one place like this forum ... I would still wander around the net looking for answers to some questions . .........

Why you started this topic here ? Why didn't you ask the experts in Evenheat ?


Why you ask this question here ? There are books you can read if you what to know more about * martensite* ?

Click to expand...
Thanks for digging up that Martensite thread up, its spectacular!
 
Lorien said:
dude, you made two posts in this thread, both of which could be construed as argumentative.
You get the eye roll emoji! No epoxy for you!
:rolleyes:
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I think you heard Mr. Apelt. Lets get back on track, Lorien.
 
A few years ago now, in a commercial vehicle accident repair center, I used to get the guys to use 3m Panel bond to re-fix wings, door pillars sills etc. anything that we had to cut out and replace after a smash up even structural components at times. A few arguments ensued with the old timers who thought that spot welding everything together was still the best thing to do, I got the 3m rep in to instruct in the correct application of the products and explain how the manufacturers were using adhesives to assemble the vehicles in the first place etc It took me back to my welding days as the same fundamentals applied.
Surfaces to be joined must be Physically Clean and chemically clean.

Has anyone tried these "New technology" adhesives in knife handle assembly world?
 
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