escalator - opinions?
- Thread starter Kelt
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Gollnick
Musical Director
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I have only the highest praise for the Rekat Escalator. The design is wonderfully conceived and obviously the result of many, many hours of careful thought and experimentation.
It's a bit chunky, this knife, and seems to draw a lot of attention even when still in my pocket. I've got to cover that silver pocket clip one of these days.
I still find it a bit difficult to open except by an inertial opening. Bram has personally given me a lesson on it, but the methods of opening it by drawing it against your opponent still aren't fully reliable for me.
Chuck
It's a bit chunky, this knife, and seems to draw a lot of attention even when still in my pocket. I've got to cover that silver pocket clip one of these days.
I still find it a bit difficult to open except by an inertial opening. Bram has personally given me a lesson on it, but the methods of opening it by drawing it against your opponent still aren't fully reliable for me.
Chuck
If you have a knife, why not just cut someone? It's like to see someone do nerve destructions and submissions in real time against a trained opponent. It's probably possible against someone with no or very little experience but against trained opponents just use the knife.
Jason
Jason
Gollnick
Musical Director
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Yes, the escalator can be opened with inertial techniques (flipping).
However, opening a knife escalates the situation to deadly force with all of the associated legal implications. The escalator is a great design in that it gives you options short of deadly force without compromising quick access to an edged weapon if you need to go that far. The escalator is the first "tactical" knife I've seen with a lock that can lock the knife open or shut. This emphasizes the many options this knife's design opens.
Chuck
However, opening a knife escalates the situation to deadly force with all of the associated legal implications. The escalator is a great design in that it gives you options short of deadly force without compromising quick access to an edged weapon if you need to go that far. The escalator is the first "tactical" knife I've seen with a lock that can lock the knife open or shut. This emphasizes the many options this knife's design opens.
Chuck
at first i thought the escalator was plain
ugly and did not belive i'll have one.
but like all great things it takes a while to understand it's greatness.
it is a "3" blade witch is leagal practicaly
everywhere and will not get you in trouble.
second it can be used as a blunt weapon very successfuly before you will need to "escalate" to deadly force using the blade.
the fact that in a split second you can deploy the knife after using it as a blunt weapon gives you great confidence,not to mention the lock on it,and that it was concieved by mr.bram frank who is one of the most skillful knife fighters in the world.
[a fact mr.taylor neglects to mention in his web site.]
in summery..it is one of the great ones.
ugly and did not belive i'll have one.
but like all great things it takes a while to understand it's greatness.
it is a "3" blade witch is leagal practicaly
everywhere and will not get you in trouble.
second it can be used as a blunt weapon very successfuly before you will need to "escalate" to deadly force using the blade.
the fact that in a split second you can deploy the knife after using it as a blunt weapon gives you great confidence,not to mention the lock on it,and that it was concieved by mr.bram frank who is one of the most skillful knife fighters in the world.
[a fact mr.taylor neglects to mention in his web site.]
in summery..it is one of the great ones.
The Escalator was designed to do bio mechanical stoppage..Yes it can do that to a trained opponent, Thats what DTL is all about! Destroy. trap n lock. Filipino limb destructions are serious..ask any JKD guy, ask a Dillman Kyushu Jitsu guy,,ask a Small circle practioner or any Ju Jitsu guy..of course ask any Filipino or Indoneasian..martial artist...limb destructions work. Thats because unlike the Grab my wrist mentality, the Escalator asks that one touch, rub or hit a nerve. That ramp is the ultimate in hitting nerves and doing pin point muscle hits thst incapacitate the opponent.
I have dropped many practituoners with a strike to heart #9 with an Escalator ..It can pinch, butt, grab, rub or if needed open in an instant upon kinetic impact with an opponent. No waiting, no thinking. open it in the flow of combat...Open off the ramp? of course it can, Open it like a straight razor if you have big ole mittens on and its cold out.
I designed it to be legal. under three inches, this gives great leverage with the longer handle.
It was just shown at the Martial Arts Hall of Fame and got rave reviews by the Grandmaster councilship.."finally a knife able to do REAL martial arts techniques WITHOUT resorting to cutting!"
Can it cut? Try one of my seminars.. I'll show you it cuts.
Of course it helps to have someone who knows how to use it without force show you..it takes sensitiverty not brute force and a "little" knowledge of Kyushu Jitsu..
be well...
yIQeqQo'neH.DoS yIqIp!
Don't aim;hit the target!
I have dropped many practituoners with a strike to heart #9 with an Escalator ..It can pinch, butt, grab, rub or if needed open in an instant upon kinetic impact with an opponent. No waiting, no thinking. open it in the flow of combat...Open off the ramp? of course it can, Open it like a straight razor if you have big ole mittens on and its cold out.
I designed it to be legal. under three inches, this gives great leverage with the longer handle.
It was just shown at the Martial Arts Hall of Fame and got rave reviews by the Grandmaster councilship.."finally a knife able to do REAL martial arts techniques WITHOUT resorting to cutting!"
Can it cut? Try one of my seminars.. I'll show you it cuts.
Of course it helps to have someone who knows how to use it without force show you..it takes sensitiverty not brute force and a "little" knowledge of Kyushu Jitsu..
be well...
yIQeqQo'neH.DoS yIqIp!
Don't aim;hit the target!
- Joined
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Having been on the receiving end of one for a couple "demos", I can unequivically tell you that it's a painful mofo and I'd hate to be on the sharp end for real.
Spark
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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
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Spark
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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
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Jim March
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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I've got this mental image of a piece of metal that bolts onto the Sifu thumbstud location to add Escalator-type properties to the Sifu!
Ohhhh ya BABY, now we're talkin'. Heck, I might be able to roll my own out of high-grade aluminum and a dremel tool.
And yes, I'm crazy enough to do it
.
Jim March
Ohhhh ya BABY, now we're talkin'. Heck, I might be able to roll my own out of high-grade aluminum and a dremel tool.
And yes, I'm crazy enough to do it
Jim March
- Joined
- May 2, 1999
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- 1,206
I know this will piss some people off, and it may offend the designer, but honestly I think this is a silly little knife.
The handle looks good, but I have no love for the blade shape or the concept at all.
I have never seen any evidence to suggest that all this pressure point and nerve point striking is anything more than a way to look real macho and intimidate your training partners in the dojo.
Fact is, pain goes out the window in a real scrap. If you do joint manipulations or something like that that has an actual physical effect on what you're doing, as opposed to just making someone go ouch, that's one thing. Other than that, forget about it.
As pointed out, a knife is a knife because it can cut. If you don't want to cut, it's not a knife that you're after. I suggest finding a more appropriate tool.
In a fight you will either see the attack coming, so will have plenty of time to produce a weapon, or you will be suprised, in which case you'll be too buisy defending yourself with unarmed techniques to worry about a knife. Quickdraws while fighting off a suprise attack don't work. No two way s about it.
This knife would seem to have an advantage in that it is designed to have some effect while closed. Thing is, if you have time to pull a knife, 9 times outa ten you'll have time to open it. Again, if you don't want to cut, a knife isn't what you want.
If you want one of these things, I strongly reccomend throwing the pain compliance ideas out the window and using it like a knuckleduster/frog.
There is only one two pressure points on the human body, the eye balls. You don't need a horn on the spine of your folder to put someone's eye out.
If you don't want to do any permanent/lethal damage to your enemy, I suggest taking up a grappling/wrestling discipline.
The handle looks good, but I have no love for the blade shape or the concept at all.
I have never seen any evidence to suggest that all this pressure point and nerve point striking is anything more than a way to look real macho and intimidate your training partners in the dojo.
Fact is, pain goes out the window in a real scrap. If you do joint manipulations or something like that that has an actual physical effect on what you're doing, as opposed to just making someone go ouch, that's one thing. Other than that, forget about it.
As pointed out, a knife is a knife because it can cut. If you don't want to cut, it's not a knife that you're after. I suggest finding a more appropriate tool.
In a fight you will either see the attack coming, so will have plenty of time to produce a weapon, or you will be suprised, in which case you'll be too buisy defending yourself with unarmed techniques to worry about a knife. Quickdraws while fighting off a suprise attack don't work. No two way s about it.
This knife would seem to have an advantage in that it is designed to have some effect while closed. Thing is, if you have time to pull a knife, 9 times outa ten you'll have time to open it. Again, if you don't want to cut, a knife isn't what you want.
If you want one of these things, I strongly reccomend throwing the pain compliance ideas out the window and using it like a knuckleduster/frog.
There is only one two pressure points on the human body, the eye balls. You don't need a horn on the spine of your folder to put someone's eye out.
If you don't want to do any permanent/lethal damage to your enemy, I suggest taking up a grappling/wrestling discipline.
Jim March
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Snick, I don't completely doubt you, in fact I agree where "pure pain" is concerned.
However, a hard smash to the opponent's wrist or nearby can make them drop whatever's in it. I've seen that, in real fights and in the dojo.
So let's say you get a situation with some moron starting at the "verbal abuse" stage. Say you've got fast access to the Escalator or a larger equivelent. The moron in question does an obvious "reach for a gun".
This is where a folder can really screw you. You don't have time to open it, and you're now wishing like hell you had a fixed blade.
With the Escalator, you're not totally hosed. You can take a smash shot at the gun wrist while stepping off-line away from the barrel and you've got a decent shot at a disarm.
That ONE possible trick alone is worthwhile if you're in a "folder only for all practical purposes" legal climate like much of California.
I'm not qualified to comment on the rest of Bram's theories regarding this puppy...but I'm not willing to totally discount him or the blade.
Jim March
However, a hard smash to the opponent's wrist or nearby can make them drop whatever's in it. I've seen that, in real fights and in the dojo.
So let's say you get a situation with some moron starting at the "verbal abuse" stage. Say you've got fast access to the Escalator or a larger equivelent. The moron in question does an obvious "reach for a gun".
This is where a folder can really screw you. You don't have time to open it, and you're now wishing like hell you had a fixed blade.
With the Escalator, you're not totally hosed. You can take a smash shot at the gun wrist while stepping off-line away from the barrel and you've got a decent shot at a disarm.
That ONE possible trick alone is worthwhile if you're in a "folder only for all practical purposes" legal climate like much of California.
I'm not qualified to comment on the rest of Bram's theories regarding this puppy...but I'm not willing to totally discount him or the blade.
Jim March
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- 1,206
Don't get me wrong, the Escalator is probably as well designed for this purpose as you will find, it's just that I don't think the theory behind it is really as practical as it sounds.
Were I in a situation as described above, I would be better served to grab the guy's wrist with my left hand, uppercut him with my right, and then sweep him with my right leg while my left maintains control of his right hand(assuming he's a righty) and help push him over with my right hand grasping his throat.
Now that he's on the ground, still latched on his throat I can beat his head against the pavement until he ceases and desists.
If I had drawn my knife before he'd drawn his gun, I would drop it in favor of the above, or open it and drive the point into his chest cavity and wiggle it around in lieu of the uppercut.
Sure, a hard smack to his wrist might make him drop the gun, but then what? I'd rather just take control from the begining of the engagement.
Sure, you could try the same thing with the folder, but I have serious doubts about it being more effective. I think it is an intresting concept, and makes sense from the standpoint that we all like knives more than is reasonable and therefore want to make one perform things that they really aren't cut out for(but that's another topic), but as to actual practical application, I fail to see it offering a decided advantage.
I supose you could always say that I'd have to be highly trained in the Kyushu Jitsu, but then again I've been in my fair share of scraps and have seen a number of different fighting styles. I've got a fair idea of what offers a decided edge and what doesn't.
I guess the main thing that this has going for it is that after you've used it in a way similar to what I've described above to subdue your opponent you can then open it and stab him to death. But there might be legal problems with that, and it's nothing you couldn't have done had you left your folder in your pocket during the initial stages of the fight.
In all honesty, these little(4 inch and under) folders that are popular these days just don't see much action until towards the end of the fight or unless things are going real bad for you, simply because unless you're the one on the offensive you don't neccesarily have time to produce the knife as you're too buisy defending yourself with unarmed techniques.
The other situation is that you see the fight coming and have plenty of time to draw and open.
This is an intresting concept knife, but in the final cut it just looks a lot more like a curio than something that really offers you an edge.
I'm all for more options, they're a good thing, as long as those options are relevant. More just for the sake of having more isn't neccesarily better. I mean, a thermometer built into an axe handle doesn't really make it a better axe, and you can usualy tell wether it's hot or cold outside with your own senses anyway.
Were I in a situation as described above, I would be better served to grab the guy's wrist with my left hand, uppercut him with my right, and then sweep him with my right leg while my left maintains control of his right hand(assuming he's a righty) and help push him over with my right hand grasping his throat.
Now that he's on the ground, still latched on his throat I can beat his head against the pavement until he ceases and desists.
If I had drawn my knife before he'd drawn his gun, I would drop it in favor of the above, or open it and drive the point into his chest cavity and wiggle it around in lieu of the uppercut.
Sure, a hard smack to his wrist might make him drop the gun, but then what? I'd rather just take control from the begining of the engagement.
Sure, you could try the same thing with the folder, but I have serious doubts about it being more effective. I think it is an intresting concept, and makes sense from the standpoint that we all like knives more than is reasonable and therefore want to make one perform things that they really aren't cut out for(but that's another topic), but as to actual practical application, I fail to see it offering a decided advantage.
I supose you could always say that I'd have to be highly trained in the Kyushu Jitsu, but then again I've been in my fair share of scraps and have seen a number of different fighting styles. I've got a fair idea of what offers a decided edge and what doesn't.
I guess the main thing that this has going for it is that after you've used it in a way similar to what I've described above to subdue your opponent you can then open it and stab him to death. But there might be legal problems with that, and it's nothing you couldn't have done had you left your folder in your pocket during the initial stages of the fight.
In all honesty, these little(4 inch and under) folders that are popular these days just don't see much action until towards the end of the fight or unless things are going real bad for you, simply because unless you're the one on the offensive you don't neccesarily have time to produce the knife as you're too buisy defending yourself with unarmed techniques.
The other situation is that you see the fight coming and have plenty of time to draw and open.
This is an intresting concept knife, but in the final cut it just looks a lot more like a curio than something that really offers you an edge.
I'm all for more options, they're a good thing, as long as those options are relevant. More just for the sake of having more isn't neccesarily better. I mean, a thermometer built into an axe handle doesn't really make it a better axe, and you can usualy tell wether it's hot or cold outside with your own senses anyway.
snick,
as veteran of 15 years of full contact fighting and a capable gun fighter i must say an encounter with an escalator with someone who knows to use it properly[bram in my case],could lead you the the conclusion it is NASTY and can inflict great pain and damage without killing or drawing too much blood. i was a sceptic at first but you should judge it after you see the application from bram.made me a beliver.i hope he will not hurt you too much..LOL
scorpio.
as veteran of 15 years of full contact fighting and a capable gun fighter i must say an encounter with an escalator with someone who knows to use it properly[bram in my case],could lead you the the conclusion it is NASTY and can inflict great pain and damage without killing or drawing too much blood. i was a sceptic at first but you should judge it after you see the application from bram.made me a beliver.i hope he will not hurt you too much..LOL
scorpio.
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- May 2, 1999
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- 1,206
I hear Bram runs a school somewhere in my state. I may just go down there and check it out.
Despite the modern tendency to worship "tactical idols", I'm not too particularly worried about him hurting me. The comment was yours, not Bram's, so I ain't leveling angainst him, but that fact is a man's a man, and if you're good at what you do, it don't particularly matter who you're up against. Don't construe that to mean that I'm saying that I'm superman, `cause that's the exact oposite of what I'm saying. I'm saying people are people and if two people who know what they're doing square off, either one of them will be able to make good account of himself.
Anyway, I'm not saying you couldn't hurt someone with it. You could kill somebody with just about anything, even a roll of toilette paper. I'm saying that I don't see thing as offering a real advantage over a more conventional knife backed up with good empty hand skills.
Despite the modern tendency to worship "tactical idols", I'm not too particularly worried about him hurting me. The comment was yours, not Bram's, so I ain't leveling angainst him, but that fact is a man's a man, and if you're good at what you do, it don't particularly matter who you're up against. Don't construe that to mean that I'm saying that I'm superman, `cause that's the exact oposite of what I'm saying. I'm saying people are people and if two people who know what they're doing square off, either one of them will be able to make good account of himself.
Anyway, I'm not saying you couldn't hurt someone with it. You could kill somebody with just about anything, even a roll of toilette paper. I'm saying that I don't see thing as offering a real advantage over a more conventional knife backed up with good empty hand skills.
The last time I saw a Nerve destruction technique work against a big burly guy in a actual fight was a sweet shot to the side of the neck with a single knuckle strike by a bouncer friend of mine. The guy's arm just hung in mid air like it was a tree branch. My friend saw the confrontation coming a mile away (as often seems the case remarkably) and had all sorts of time to bring a weapon (leathal or non-leathal) to bear. He just chose not to.
I can only assume that using a tool such as the Escalator (or even that thingy that Comtech sells) would make such strikes even more effective and even less dependant on power verses accuracy.
I can only assume that using a tool such as the Escalator (or even that thingy that Comtech sells) would make such strikes even more effective and even less dependant on power verses accuracy.