ESEE Izula folder (for real this time)

[KennyB]

I'm almost certain I read that on the other forum.

Yep you're right, I found the post where he mentioned it. Well... Someone better at search found it

Problem with stainless is we cannot heat treat it in-house like we do 1095, so Shon has spent the last 6 months or so sending test lots out to a bunch of different heat treaters then bringing them in and doing destructive testing to get the best recipe. He's still not happy with them breaking at 15 degrees but it's the nature of the beast. He finally settled on a company that's doing a very consistent job and then sent us samples to abuse and test. It causes a lot of delays but in the end we know what we're dealing with before it goes to market.

 

[bld522]

So I guess my question for Jeff if I could ask him is why use stainless? Wouldn't an alloy like D2 be perfectly adequate for a Ti-handled framelock? It seems to work just fine in my Laconico Slim EDC. D2 appears to be in in plentiful supply. Rowen might even be able to heat-treat it in-house. Furthermore, it doesn't seem to be burdened with the same "junk steel" status 440C has. How would D2 hold up at 15 degrees if it were properly heat-treated? (Yes, yes. I know D2 has a reputation for chipping. But that was never a complaint with the Kershaw Outcast, for example. So back off the Rc a little.) And why does the Izula folder need to be sharpened to 15 degrees anyway? Wouldn't 20 degrees be sufficient?

 

[Tripton]

So I guess my question for Jeff if I could ask him is why use stainless? Wouldn't an alloy like D2 be a perfectly adequate blade steel for a Ti-handled framelock? It works just fine in my Laconico Slim EDC. D2 appears to be in in plentiful supply. Rowen might even be able to heat-treat it in-house. Furthermore, it doesn't seem to be burdened with the same "junk steel" status 440C has. How would D2 hold up at 15 degrees if it were properly heat-treated? (Yes, yes. I know D2 has a reputation for chipping. But that was never a complaint with the Kershaw Outcast. So back off the Rc a little.) And why does the Izula folder need to be sharpened to 15 degrees anyway? Wouldn't 20 degrees be sufficient?

All of the rest of the ESEE knives are sharpened at approximately 20 degrees per side. I see no reason why the folder would be any different.

If you are planing to refer me to the post above yours, save your typing fingers the trouble. That post was regarding bending the stainless fixed blades 15 degrees before breakage. Nothing to do with the edge.

 

[bld522]

If you are planing to refer me to the post above yours, save your typing fingers the trouble. That post was regarding bending the stainless fixed blades 15 degrees before breakage. Nothing to do with the edge.

Now THERE's a good idea. Doesn't everybody routinely bend their folder blades 15 degrees? If that's the metric Jeff is looking to achieve, I'd suggest he use 12C27 and call it a day! It's unlikely he'll find a stainless steel with better lateral strength than it has. And it's edge-holding capability isn't too darn bad either.

 

[Tripton]

Now THERE's a good idea. Doesn't everybody routinely bend their folder blades 15 degrees? If that's the metric Jeff is looking to achieve, I'd suggest he use 12C27 and call it a day! It's unlikely he'll find a stainless steel with better lateral strength than that.

I really have no idea what lateral breakage limits they are looking at for the folder. It has never been discussed.


Doesn't matter, because the post we are talking about was referring to their stainless fixed blades. The stainless fixed blades will not take the same abuse as their 1095 knives, so they cut back the warranty on them. That is what the post in question was about. It was quoted here at BFC merely to backup the fact that Rowan does not heat treat stainless.

 

[bld522]

Got it. Thanks for clarifying that!

 

[Tripton]

The sad thing is, they will more than likely test the folder to see what they can get out of it for lateral strength....because some stupid customer certainly will.

 

[bld522]

That would constitute deliberate abuse in my reality. But as you say, some folks aren't too bright.

 

[Popsickle]

I've yet to come close to wearing out a Ti lockbar without a SS insert, so that's not an issue for me.

As I said before, it's all going to come down to the choices ESEE makes and the price they charge based on their choices. There's definitely a "right" price for a 440C ESEE Ti-handled framelock in my reality, however.

A properly made folder won't wear out. I love the idea of a stainless interface though

 

[calc]

Yeah. Same goes for car manufacturers. They should cancel all of the auto shows unless they are going to show ONLY finished and tested products.

Not really what I'm saying. I'm saying that you can't call consumers unreasonable for expecting the finished product to somewhat resemble published concept drawings.

 

[mikeylab]

i have been looking forward to this knife for a long time.

 

[brancron]

It seems like several people here are having trouble parsing ESEE's warranty, for whatever reason. It's pretty simple, but here's a breakdown:

1. 1095 knives: broken knife = replaced. They won’t replace rusty knives or knives that suffer from normal wear and tear, because such knives aren't broken.

2. 440C knives: broken knife = replaced, as long as it wasn’t done so through abuse. This is probably equivalent to the standard “free from defects in material and workmanship” warranty, because any knife that breaks without being abused is arguably defective.

3. Lite Machete: no ESEE warranty (probably covered by Condor’s or whoever’s warranty).