Ethics of hunting ... should I learn to hunt deer?

Tom,

You have the right ideas you will make a good hunter if you decide to pursue it. I am too new around here to step on toes hard, but hunting is not about blood lust and carnage. Hunting is about getting out and enjoying nature, making a good shot and enjoying meat you made with your own hand.

I wrote earlier that I enjoy killing, and I do not retract that, there is something exciting about watching a dove in full bore boogie fold in mid flight that you simply don't get shooting clays. When I go retrieve that bird and pick it's lifeless body up I always feel a little sorry for it, not sorry enough not to double batter and deep fry, dip in catsup mixed with tobasco, ice cold beer, and eat till I can't move. :D :D That's when you know life is truly grand. :thumbup:
 
TomFetter said:
Absolutely, Munk.

I write back and forth to a farmer in Maine, who raises sheep. Kills them with a quick knife to the throat ... he and I each think that's swift and humane. I remember a novel about an orthodox Jewish family, where the butcher father killed chickens in a Kosher way, despite selling to a Gentile clientele.

The author commented that the Kosher killing was really appreciated by nobody except the butcher himself, and, in an odd way, the chicken.

I simply had some alarm bells ring reading Krull's post. Krull, if I misread your intention, pls. accept my apology. If I didn't misread your intention ... my concern stands ...
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Then I guess you should keep it-I do enjoy killing,but not of anything innocent,only something that deserves it.

Never got in the army-which is good,I'm uncontrollable and not likely to stop when I'm told.

Never became a cop or FBI-which is good because I wouldn't arrest anyone I'll just hunt and kill same as always.

I know I'm an outsider in today's world,a throwback who's unwilling to change,more akin to the Viking berserkers who find fufillment in the thick of killing...I put my ideas in my books and stay the hell away from most humans because of that.

If you've no use for us anymore we'll just stay in the background and wait to see if you can make a go of it...if not we'll come back again.

We always do,we always will.

Jesus said "live by the sword,die by the sword" I answer "then I shall die on my feet with a sword in hand,killing as much as I can unto the end"
 
Krull said:
Then I guess you should keep it-I do enjoy killing,but not of anything innocent,only something that deserves it.

Never got in the army-which is good,I'm uncontrollable and not likely to stop when I'm told.

Never became a cop or FBI-which is good because I wouldn't arrest anyone I'll just hunt and kill same as always.

I know I'm an outsider in today's world,a throwback who's unwilling to change,more akin to the Viking berserkers who find fufillment in the thick of killing...I put my ideas in my books and stay the hell away from most humans because of that.

If you've no use for us anymore we'll just stay in the background and wait to see if you can make a go of it...if not we'll come back again.

We always do,we always will.

Jesus said "live by the sword,die by the sword" I answer "then I shall die on my feet with a sword in hand,killing as much as I can unto the end"
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UHHHHHHH, right. :jerkit:
 
I bet if we were sitting down at the same fire we'd find our perspectives were not that different.



munk
 
Tom, I recently read an article I think would be of interest to you. The author seemed to have the same intentions as you. He was fulfilling a desire to share with his family a meal he had obtained completely on his own, facing the consequences and finding whatever morality was to be gotten from the experiences. Fruits and vegetables he found and picked himself on a trip up into the mountains. He processed them himself. Fish he caught from the stream, but the main story was the hunting of a wild hog. It was his first time hunting, and he surprised himself with some of his actions. He experienced moments of guilt, shame at a lack of guilt, revulsion and contentment. It was a very interesting read, I'll try to find it for you.

Krull sounds kind of nuts. I'm think I'm going to have to start up an ignore list.
 
Krull said:
Jesus said "live by the sword,die by the sword" I answer "then I shall die on my feet with a sword in hand,killing as much as I can unto the end"
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Jesus was simply saying what goes around, comes around. Not an advertisement for slicing and dicing the competition - he was more the "swords into ploughshares" type. Even Vikings frowned on chopping up other Vikings - Erik the Red discovered Greenland while he was exiled from Norway for murder.

Maybe try for a job in a meat packing plant - the one I knew in Brooks Alberta always had a big turnover of folks willing to work the slaughterhouse floor. But please stay out of my neighbourhood.

t.
 
I guess I'll go against the grain here.
Krull said we may need him. He said he's not like most of us and he understands that. OK. He can come to my neighborhood.


munk
 
I know a guy who will chase the animal he wants over hill and dale. IF he spends three days chasing this animal that's fine. My frriend drives thousands of miles per year to hunt. He hunts all over the US. Does he have 'blood lust'?
I dunno. He's a successfull aerospace engineer.

A lot of hunters I know laugh at the deaths of the animals they kill- particularly varmint hunters, coyote hunters, etc. A lot of the hunters I know go to extraordinary pains to insure the animal hunted does not suffer a millosecond more of pain than needed. Some hunters say the shot is not important, it's just a part; others say it is the pinnacle, the Event itself, and they could not be without it.

I'm sad when an animal dies, and delighted when he goes down fast. I've done my job right. But I know animals, and many men, live short brutal lives, and any method of take I would choose would not be an exception to this. So the decision is always what I am comfortable with. Everyone makes their own decision, and within some broad guidelines, we are all men under the same tent.


munk
 
munk said:
I guess I'll go against the grain here.
Krull said we may need him. He said he's not like most of us and he understands that. OK. He can come to my neighborhood.


munk
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Thanks munk,I'm quite safe and sane-I just prefer the quicker,more brutal way to get things done...Saddam is an example-justice? bring it to court??? why? just shoot him and toss the corpse to the people.

Bin Laudin;mass murders why bother? just have people who specialize in hunting/killing go get them...and bring back a body-it's more easy that way.

As to hunting animals-it's food I know something dies for me or any animal to eat,even plants but I guess it's ok to feel bad that's you,me I'm just happy to have had some fun in the hunt/kill and now it's time to eat!
 
deer-on-a-motorcycle.jpg
 
I don't like to hunt any more. I don't want to kill anything. Maybe I"m getting soft-hearted or soft-headed. I'm not a hypocrite though. I eat meat and know that animals die to feed me. I liked hunting and I still like the idea of it, I just don't want the kill any more and without that, it simply lacks much meaning.

I encourage people to hunt for meat. I took my son through the hunter safety course and he got his license. He went hunting with a cousin several times. He told me he didn't really like it but I never once told him that it was a bad thing. I hate slob hunters though, and those who hunt solely for the excitement of killing something for a trophy. Does anyone on a safari eat an elephant?

I'm kind of undecided about pest and varmint hunters. I know that praire dogs, rats, coyotes, pidgeons, etc. need to be thinned out. I don't suppose its as cruel as poisoning them or fencing them out letting them starve.
 
I've always been about the stalk. Never a great fan of the killling. If I choose to kill an animal, I want to be like the hand of God. As close to instant and painless as I can make it. That's why I'm not a great fan of the killing, because I am the hand of Man.
 
I know an awful lot of hunters who don't like the kill, make it as quick and humane as possible, and do it with the understanding it is a part of the process, the cycle. (I'd call it the life cycle)



munk
 
TomFetter, I can recommend the Neiman Ranch products. We buy them from Trader Joes and have always been happy with them. Their bacon is the best I've found and we enjoy their sausages also. Their ham steaks and Black forrest ham is delicious.
Here's their online store if you want to check them out. They run a humane ranch and I've only heard good things about them.

www.nimanranch.com/c/FeaturedProducts

I just checked their online prices and they appear to be more than double what we are paying at Trader Joes...OUCH!!
 
I'm glad to see this thread re-surfaced. There's a lot of very thoughtful comment in it.

I've not had the time since the thread first went up to spend in the bush, learning how to stalk, where the deer would be in the land I'd hunt. Nor have I had the time or $ to purchase and practice with the right weapon.

Instead, we've ended up buying more from the local producers who raise their animals in ways I'm comfortable with. Yeah, the prices are higher ... but not too much higher. The quality's certainly better, and it feels good to support a local farmer.

But the question's not gone away for me - and I'm hoping to have learned enough to hunt next Fall.
 
The instant numb feeling from my 338 win bag loaded for specific animal,or a rendering plant where its not uncommon for a animal to be skinned alive?There is a difference between ethics and feelings
 
donny b, I launched the whole thread because of my concern for how animals are raised in most commercial agriculture, as you'll see if you read from the beginning.

Your post gives one of the reasons why I think it's more ethical to hunt than to eat agri-corp raised beef etc. And why I'm happier eating an animal raised and slaughtered in a more humane way.
 
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