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Evapo-Rust
- Thread starter Thomas Linton
- Start date
Maybe there is two kinds. The stuff sold by Brownell's in gallon jugs sounds like it is supposed to be diluted. They say one gallon makes two gallons of solution.
I think Evapo-rust is made in Mpls, because the outfit I called sells it in big quantities, but can't figure out what a gallon costs and won't sell it out the front door. They said they would get back to me next week with the price of a gallon. So, I ordered some from Midway and it will probably get here by the time they call.
I think Evapo-rust is made in Mpls, because the outfit I called sells it in big quantities, but can't figure out what a gallon costs and won't sell it out the front door. They said they would get back to me next week with the price of a gallon. So, I ordered some from Midway and it will probably get here by the time they call.
Aardvark
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Steve the way I read it is that Dean added just enough water to it to cover the object he was trying to derust in the particular container he was using.
In other words he diluted it to have enough Evapo-Rust to cover the material in the container.
Proof that it doesn't work nearly as well diluted.
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At the gun&knife show today I found a booth selling/demoing evaporust.
Asked if one could dilute it.
Common sense response was, "you should use it full strength.
if you dilute it, it will work a lot slower."
Can't find my mosquito vibrator, so that experiment is on hold.
I'm still agitating the item I started,
progress is S-L-O-W . . . . . . . .
He did say that it was appropriate to add water
in order to maintain original volume lost to evaporation.
I wonder how much water loss might be too much for
efficient function of the chemistry--
probably a -lot- of loss.
---------------
update:
just checked, and we're down to bare metal & a few DEEP rust holes
still being cleaned out.
---------------
& a thought, not that it would make a functional difference,
but the solution can probably be filtered to remove the loose
carbon that blackens the solution.
That would just let us see the item as it works.
I say 'probably' because I don't know how
the size of the carbon particles, and if the required
filter would be cheap & worth getting.
The idea of using an aquarium air bubler to keep the solution moving/agitated may be worth pursuing for a second reason;
particulate filters are standard items in aquarium supply shops.
Asked if one could dilute it.
Common sense response was, "you should use it full strength.
if you dilute it, it will work a lot slower."
Can't find my mosquito vibrator, so that experiment is on hold.
I'm still agitating the item I started,
progress is S-L-O-W . . . . . . . .
He did say that it was appropriate to add water
in order to maintain original volume lost to evaporation.
I wonder how much water loss might be too much for
efficient function of the chemistry--
probably a -lot- of loss.
---------------
update:
just checked, and we're down to bare metal & a few DEEP rust holes
still being cleaned out.
---------------
& a thought, not that it would make a functional difference,
but the solution can probably be filtered to remove the loose
carbon that blackens the solution.
That would just let us see the item as it works.
I say 'probably' because I don't know how
the size of the carbon particles, and if the required
filter would be cheap & worth getting.
The idea of using an aquarium air bubler to keep the solution moving/agitated may be worth pursuing for a second reason;
particulate filters are standard items in aquarium supply shops.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 20,201
I have used it on ten Karda's, and getting some on the handles (not soaking in it as such) had no effect.
My bottle says it was manufactured by Harris Corp., Springdale, AK.
Directions say allowing solution to dry on steel will "prevent re-rusting."
No mention of diluting.
TAL
My bottle says it was manufactured by Harris Corp., Springdale, AK.
Directions say allowing solution to dry on steel will "prevent re-rusting."
No mention of diluting.
TAL
Aardvark
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Just finished my first test of the stuff.
Used it undiluted on a heavily rusted spring-loaded rope hitch from the pickup. It did a great job removing ALL the rust from the iron body and the zinc-plated bolts/nuts.
It does, however, seem to take a LOT longer than advertised in their instructions, taking a total of about 30 hours to complete. The parts were covered with approx. 1 cup of EvapoRust, which was VERY black afterwards.
Using the same liquid, I soaked another piece of rusted iron overnight (12 hours). The stuff still worked. I can't tell whether the derusting action was slower (thought logic would indicate that it is), because the rust on the 2nd part was less than the hitch, and the metal was different.
In general, quite pleased with the results. Especially like that fact that it's non-toxic. Pretty much odorless, too.
After the rust is removed, the parts were very dark (carbon, I'm told), and a little rough, which 0000 steel wool easily buffed out.
Used it undiluted on a heavily rusted spring-loaded rope hitch from the pickup. It did a great job removing ALL the rust from the iron body and the zinc-plated bolts/nuts.
It does, however, seem to take a LOT longer than advertised in their instructions, taking a total of about 30 hours to complete. The parts were covered with approx. 1 cup of EvapoRust, which was VERY black afterwards.
Using the same liquid, I soaked another piece of rusted iron overnight (12 hours). The stuff still worked. I can't tell whether the derusting action was slower (thought logic would indicate that it is), because the rust on the 2nd part was less than the hitch, and the metal was different.
In general, quite pleased with the results. Especially like that fact that it's non-toxic. Pretty much odorless, too.
After the rust is removed, the parts were very dark (carbon, I'm told), and a little rough, which 0000 steel wool easily buffed out.
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The roughness was due to the rust eating at the metal.
The E-Rust just removes the rust itself.
Use bigger volume of E-Rust & I'd expect it to work much faster.
As the compounds in the solution are used up,
you are using what is essentially a more & more dilute solution.
And trying to reach deeper into any pitting,
which should be easier with fresh solution.
Wish we knew how to refresh the compound that binds up the freed iron.
I think I read it was a sulfer compound.
Firkin ????
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I cleaned up 10 Karda that I bought from Atlanta Cutlery. Put the evaporust in a glass jar and microwaved it until just before boiling. Put the kardas in and set it in the oven at 150 degrees. It still took 2-3 hours to get out some very deep pitting. Took the kardas out a couple of time and brushed them with a fine brass brush.
The key thing for me, is that it did get to the bottom of the pits. Something that is very difficult or impossible to do mechanically. Of course, this leaves a rough surface, but as was said, that's the fault of the rust.
Gonna try some more rusty knives that I bought from a guy at work.
Steve
The key thing for me, is that it did get to the bottom of the pits. Something that is very difficult or impossible to do mechanically. Of course, this leaves a rough surface, but as was said, that's the fault of the rust.
Gonna try some more rusty knives that I bought from a guy at work.
Steve
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"Wish we knew how to refresh the compound that binds up the freed iron.
I think I read it was a sulfer compound.
Firkin ????"
That's what they say--and that eventually there's a bunch of "iron sulfate". Which is, as expected singularly uninformative
Ferric sulfate or ferrous sulfate? Is it hydrated or oar there other ligands?...
The compound that finally binds up the freed irom is fairly cheap and readily available I think. The chelator is the expensive part--finely tuned to want the iron enough to yank it out of the rust, but still willing to release it later, to form the "iron sulfate" which remains in solution. If the chelator wasn't expensive, why not just dump in a bunch--why bother with the transfer?
Normally a chelator which coordinates to a metal atom through two or more groups like a pincher (from which the name is derived I think) forms a complex with a metal ion that's MORE stable than something like a hydrated sulfate complex.-- Equlibria often favor chelated complexes by factors of tens to hundreds.
In their system, things are working in reverse, at least the part involving "iron sulfate". Which is pretty cute. Cute enough to make me think that the "sulfer containg" compound may be not be as simple as they make it sound.
Anyway, the only ways I see to "regenerate" this stuff is
1)Electrochemically reduce the iron to iron-zero which will precipitate out. (like getting silver from photography solutions) If the other ingredients are ssusceptable to reduction, then this won't work. Not a brilliant thing to attempt in total ignorance of the composition of the solution.
2)Add more stuff to bind iron. Only problem, is we don't know what it is! At some point solubility will be a problem, and crystals will come out, which wouldn't be real great if they grew in the rust pits that your'e trying to clean.
But if one got a hold of the patent (if this is patented), this approach might work for a while. Or the formulators may have pretty much concentrated things to the max already.
Just a note--There is also detergent in the stuff, to clean off grease and the like.
One of the fastest ways to get junk off of the surface and promote mixing is SONICATION. If you put a container of this into the water bath of a sonicator, I bet it would work much faster. Most of the energy transmits fine through glass, no need to goop up the sonicator bath.
Sorry, not much help.
I think I read it was a sulfer compound.
Firkin ????"
That's what they say--and that eventually there's a bunch of "iron sulfate". Which is, as expected singularly uninformative
Ferric sulfate or ferrous sulfate? Is it hydrated or oar there other ligands?...
The compound that finally binds up the freed irom is fairly cheap and readily available I think. The chelator is the expensive part--finely tuned to want the iron enough to yank it out of the rust, but still willing to release it later, to form the "iron sulfate" which remains in solution. If the chelator wasn't expensive, why not just dump in a bunch--why bother with the transfer?
Normally a chelator which coordinates to a metal atom through two or more groups like a pincher (from which the name is derived I think) forms a complex with a metal ion that's MORE stable than something like a hydrated sulfate complex.-- Equlibria often favor chelated complexes by factors of tens to hundreds.
In their system, things are working in reverse, at least the part involving "iron sulfate". Which is pretty cute. Cute enough to make me think that the "sulfer containg" compound may be not be as simple as they make it sound.
Anyway, the only ways I see to "regenerate" this stuff is
1)Electrochemically reduce the iron to iron-zero which will precipitate out. (like getting silver from photography solutions) If the other ingredients are ssusceptable to reduction, then this won't work. Not a brilliant thing to attempt in total ignorance of the composition of the solution.
2)Add more stuff to bind iron. Only problem, is we don't know what it is! At some point solubility will be a problem, and crystals will come out, which wouldn't be real great if they grew in the rust pits that your'e trying to clean.
But if one got a hold of the patent (if this is patented), this approach might work for a while. Or the formulators may have pretty much concentrated things to the max already.
Just a note--There is also detergent in the stuff, to clean off grease and the like.
One of the fastest ways to get junk off of the surface and promote mixing is SONICATION. If you put a container of this into the water bath of a sonicator, I bet it would work much faster. Most of the energy transmits fine through glass, no need to goop up the sonicator bath.
Sorry, not much help.
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Two thoughts; well, actually, I have two things in the house
that might work in this regard.
A sonic jewelry cleaner I found on sale -real- cheap &
tucked away.
Don't know if it's for real, but I'll dig it out & give it a try.
The mosquito repeller gadget that hangs from your clothes is
supposed to put out high freq, but couldmn't be very strong
on a single AA cell.If I can ever find it.
Do you know if the freq might be useful to keep things stirred up?
(dropped in inside a plastic bag to allow direct contact with the water)
Any thoughts?
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As I understand it, sonication works by causing cavitation on a microscopic scale. Tiny bubbles are formed which violently collapse. The surface of the immersed object nucelates the tiny bubbles. Quite high temperatures are acheived on a localized microscopic scale.
A decent sonicator will put out enough energy that you can feel it if you put your finger in the bath. There will also be "hotspots" where the energy is stronger, I think that this is due to interferrence effects. Also there will be some sort of standing wave pattern on the surface of the water bath.
I don't think that sonication will promoted any large-scale mixing, but the thin layer of solvent around the object to be cleaned will be quite active.
I don't expect much from the mosquito repeller--the piezoelectric device on a sonicator is quite a hefty chunk that one wouldn't want to wear. If something smaller could do the job, they'd use them to make the sonicators.
A decent sonicator will put out enough energy that you can feel it if you put your finger in the bath. There will also be "hotspots" where the energy is stronger, I think that this is due to interferrence effects. Also there will be some sort of standing wave pattern on the surface of the water bath.
I don't think that sonication will promoted any large-scale mixing, but the thin layer of solvent around the object to be cleaned will be quite active.
I don't expect much from the mosquito repeller--the piezoelectric device on a sonicator is quite a hefty chunk that one wouldn't want to wear. If something smaller could do the job, they'd use them to make the sonicators.
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On a reasonable budget probably someones idea of using
an air bubbler from aquarium shop would likely be the simplest way to
help the process along.
fwiw,
My wal-mart source no longer carries evapo-rust,
so I'm shopping around for a new supplier locally.
I have seen mention on some online sales sites that the 1-gal
container is to have another gallon of water added to
bring it to std working strength.
I'll have to do more checking.
If true you could get a real good or real bad deal
depending on whether the gallon you buy is concentrate or not.
an air bubbler from aquarium shop would likely be the simplest way to
help the process along.
fwiw,
My wal-mart source no longer carries evapo-rust,
so I'm shopping around for a new supplier locally.
I have seen mention on some online sales sites that the 1-gal
container is to have another gallon of water added to
bring it to std working strength.
I'll have to do more checking.
If true you could get a real good or real bad deal
depending on whether the gallon you buy is concentrate or not.
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- 20,201
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- Messages
- 15,395
Dean, I don't know if it is "pink" or not, but I got some Naval Jelly at Lowe's over on 15th and Yale. There may be one closer to you.
It was in the heavy duty cleaning supplies along with the TSP and the like. It came in a spray bottle which I thought might be better than trying to brush it on.
For rust replacement there's another product called Endo-Rust or similar that I've gotten at WalMart. It works by converting the rust to a pretty much permanent sort of black oxide finish. It is great for old cars that one is trying to restore. Works really well on rusty brake master cylinders and such.
I used it on several pieces of my old '67 AMC Ambassador when we owned it.
A $600.00 car that took us from New Orleans in the South to Niagara Falls Canada in the North as well as back and forth to work and short side trips. A great old car that always brought attention.