Ever wish you had a beater?

Chris Pierce said:
I'm sure that he didn't think that he'd cut himself either.
What was he doing anyway?
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One of my jobs is at a restaurant. He did a couple of things actually (the second task is when he cut himself). The ladies room was out of seat protectors. First he went to the back and cut open a few boxes to find which one had the toilet covers in it (a lot of our boxes get opened, then retaped to move to somewhere else when we need them out of the way, so they can have a few layers of packing tape on them) and for the life of me I don't know how he got so much glue on the blade just from opening the boxes, I think he might have cut at a weird angle that practically put the blade parallel with the tape while he cut it. Glue on the blade, no big deal, but it was obvious he didn't try to wipe it off or anything before he folded it back up (which I ALWAYS do to keep glue out of the handle, I don't like taking the whole damn knife apart if I don't have to).
Second, I guess he couldn't get the case that holds the seat protectors to pop open so he used my knife. I actually don't really care that he kind of used my Manix2 for that super light pry job because it's cheap malleable plastic and I know the Manix can handle it as long as it's not all in the tip, that said though I didn't know he was going to use my knife for that and would have tossed him the Leatherman instead. ANYWAYS...that's when he cut himself. From what he showed me he put his hand in the direct path of the blade. He didn't need stitches or anything but he still has a big a** bandage on his finger. I know it's safer to cut with a sharp knife, but if it had been a duller edge I really think it wouldn't have bit so deep, looked like it sliced right into him (my Manix2 is a razor, stropped the factory edge up nice). The scratch? Don't really know when that happened. Didn't bother to ask him because I already grilled him to show me how he cut himself.

One of these things by themselves would have just been an acceptable casualty of loaning out a knife, but all of them together on my nicest (blading on a budget over here) newest knife made for an annoying experience.

Sorry for the length, but you asked and I wanted to give a full explanation.
 
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I might loan some idiot an Olfa, and then stand back and watch the blood spurt. But never, ever, any of my knives. If they don't have their own, they're too dumb to use one of my blades.
 
mystro said:
I call B.S...Using a knife is not a all or nothing statement. There are degrees of which you may use a knife. Its one thing to cut open boxes, its another loosen barb wire that is tangled under your truck. The idea that you should man-up and use every knife for everything is idiotic.
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Huge plus one. I don't mind scratches and things like that. I DO mind if someone destroys the thing. I won't even let someone borrow a mora because I don't want the hour I put into polishing the edge to go to waste because some dipwad has no idea what a knife is used for. My time and money is actually worth something to me. :rolleyes:
 
Once again, i look forward to hearing the question: "hey, you got a knife ?" My reply is always the same. "yes i do". Then comes the "can i borrow it ?" My answer is always "no, you can not." Why comes next. My answer: "why don't YOU carry a knife ? , since YOU are the one who needs one. Most of the time, i get a dumbfounded look from them as they say IDK.

My hope is, by doing that, it makes more people realize that a knife is a tool & NOT a weapon. And that they will buy one for themselves. Worst case: they think i am a tool, but i could care less. :D
 
Do not loan a knife and do not carry a knife you are afraid to use.The ones you don't use you can look at them and and polish them,or whatever folks do with a knife they use as something other than a tool.
 
willis said:
Do not loan a knife and do not carry a knife you are afraid to use.The ones you don't use you can look at them and and polish them,or whatever folks do with a knife they use as something other than a tool.
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This. That said my beater is a Flash2 and I sort of like it.
 
Unfortunately, much like loaning the keys to your pickup, loaning your knife is YOUR responsibility and not the guy who borrows it. He has no skin-in-the-game (pardon the pun) so treating it like a crowbar is not his concern. If he viewed any knife is a valuable, necessary, daily-use tool, he'd have one in his pocket. Since he doesn't, simply realize that he doesn't value nor see the need in ever having knife handy. So he's always gonna' treat it like it's worthless beyond his last use. Yep, we; like, appreciate, value & sometimes even cherish blades. That's why we're members here. But if the potential borrower doesn't see the convenience of buying/carrying even a $20 beater, why (fer pete's sake) should I carry an extra one so he can trash it? Let him cut wire, pop blisters, pry rocks from his boot...with his teeth.
 
I agree with everyone saying use but don't abuse. Problem is most people don't even know how expensive our knives are. Ill be damned if somebodys gonna break the tip off one of my sprint runs. If somebody doesn't care to own even a cheapo knife they won't be using my 100$ and 200$ knives. The only people I would lend my knife to are other knife nuts, and my dad. The only other knife nut I know, is my brother. Other than them I will offer to do the task. Most of my friends dont even bring a knife camping :confused: I am the designated hot dog stick carver :barf:

Of course, a 30 dollar knife will tackle most tasks as well as my higher end knives but I buy the good stuff because I appreciate the quality of workmanship and excellent materials. I plan on having and using these knives for a lifetime, I don't need people who couldn't care less about knives damaging them.

Most people don't know how to treat expensive tools. I wouldn't hand over my 200$ vernier calipers or micrometers either. One drop and that's it...
 
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sloth357 said:
Hmmm, whatever knife you carry should be a useable knife.. no reason in carrying a safe queen if you're afraid it might get glue or tape residue or even, OMG scratched..

As far as letting other people use it.. same thing, if you are carrying something you are afraid of letting someone else use.. you should be carrying something else..

Hi, yes this is my knife but you cant use it because I spent too much on this knife and afraid you might eff it up.. weak :)

Keep it in the safe, or use the damn thing :)
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So if you have a customized rifle and someone wants to go hunting and wants to borrow your rifle you'd be okay with it? Loaning your rifle to a guy who doesn't even own a rifle?

I sure as heck wouldn't loan him a nice rifle, and probably not even think twice about saying no, heck not even a beater .22. Use and abuse are two different things, and it's better to tell 'em you'll cut something for them ONCE and tell them to get their own after that.
 
I get this at work quite a bit. However a new guy started a few months ago, and I was surprised to see him take a knife out to cut off some boat covers. He carries a knife daily. If someone else needs to use a knife I may let them, depends on what I am carrying. A Kershaw Leek or something, no biggy. One girl I work with has alot of common sense when it comes to knives, and knows how to use one.
What I cant stand however, is when I hand someone a knife. Or at my house they pick one up. And then open the knife like they are swinging a baseball bat :grumpy:.
 
I always ask now a days. Or carry a cheaper knife with me, or even more often a knife with two blades one for normal stuff and one for nasty work.
 
Alberta Ed said:
RULE #1: Don't. Ever. Loan. Your. Knife.
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WHat he said... :)

Seriously most people I work with know I'm good for a knife or three and will come looking for one, to cut something... I always go and cut if for them, because most people have no idea how to use a knife properly, and will abuse the knife or cut themselves, ... or both... If they know how to use one properly I'd lay odd they laready have one of their own.

Same as I use fountain pens, They work great, but I'm not loaing them out, ever, to anyone, because most people don't know how to use one. and they are easily damaged if not used properly.

Yes I use my knives...the BM 835 in M2 steel that I have has been used a lot, so much I wore out the sheath it came with... (I do have a second one that has only ever been out of the box to check it.)
 
I use a Gerber Paraframe 1 for my beater. Batoning, throwing, scraping, stabbing, i dont care.
ANYTHING that happens to it, i couldn't care less.
I used cement blocks as cutting boards for dirt and grass.
Dull as melted butter, but i dont even care enough to sharpen it. (not that it would take an edge anyways :D)
When i let someone use a knife, i make sure i know whats going on, and try to just cut them off mid-sentence and finish the job before theyre even done talking.
And when i borrow someone's knife, i make sure to tell them what im doing with it first thing.
I usually borrow my cousin's knife and he abuses his knives. Purposely.
Most of them hold up to his crap. (prying stabbing etc.)
But, it's still not my knife, and im sure he knows what i'm doing with it.
 
Over the years I've come to recognize patterns of responsibility and ownership.

There was a time when I would lend my tools. I had a fine collection of hand tools: saws, drills, hammers, chisels, pliers, screwdrivers, and so on. I would lend them, and get them back damaged or broken (or occasionally not at all). There was always an excuse, never the borrower's fault. In no particular order:
  • Yours doesn't work like mine (or others I've used).
  • If you would buy a quality [saw, wrench, hammer] this wouldn't have happened.
  • Sorry, man, I have no idea how that saw got bent.
  • Oh, I didn't do that; I lent it to Bill 'cuz he needed it, and that's how I got it back.
  • Yeah, the wire must have been tougher than I thought (cutters on my pliers).
  • I thought a hammer was harder than concrete.
  • Don't be such a baby, tools are supposed to be used (chipped screwdriver).
  • I think they might have fallen down inside (missing sockets).
  • But it did a real good job on that linoleum (my formerly razor-edged chisel).

This was enough to result in a universal policy: I don't lend my tools.

Some time later, I modified that to "lend tools only to people of verified competence."

Some chips out of the edge of a knife led to further changes: "even competent people aren't good with all tools."

This was confirmed by our dentist, who was also a family friend. He had no problem keeping the tools of his trade in perfect working order, including the assorted sharp tools he used daily. But he could not keep an edge on his kitchen knives.

And finally, our general contractor. He was really good with tools. Outstanding. However, when I told him I was moving north and would be living ten miles from the Buck Knives factory, and they would sharpen any of their knives for five bucks, he asked if I'd take his old 112 with me and send it back to him sharpened. No problem, love to. And then he handed me the knife. OMG. No edge. All beat up. "Yeah, I've always had trouble getting it to take an edge." Here's a guy who could sharpen a saw, sharpen a chisel (and do it well) but he couldn't get an edge on a pocket knife. Before I took it to the factory, I figured I would just see if there was anything fundamentally wrong with this knife. Fifteen minutes with a diamond steel and it had an edge. It was still all beat up, but now it would cut stuff. (The factory actually just replaced it and I sent him back a nice shiny new 112. No idea if it's still sharp.)

With all this (and other stories too numerous to list here) I was able to derive a foundation principle.

Responsibility and ownership go hand in hand. A lack of responsibility will tend to lead to a lack of ownership. "Ownership" may also be characterized as "the ability to own" or somewhat differently "the ability to have." Competence with a tool -- the ability to use it well and properly -- is another aspect of responsibility. And this is also tied to one's ability to maintain and care for a tool. And so there are some rules that can be drawn from this.
  • A man who will not own a tool cannot be expected to be responsible with it or for it.
  • A man who is not, or cannot be, responsible for a tool, can not be expected to achieve competence with it.
  • A man who is not responsible for a tool cannot be expected to care for it.

And there is some theory and goes with this:
  • Someone who "can have" tools will tend to be good with them, someone who "can't have" tools will tend to be bad with them.
  • It's not important how the person who "can have" or who "can't have" got that way, but this ability/inability operates like a form of "portable external karma" (you could call it a "responsibility field") and will tend to affect whatever he handles.
  • Placing tools in the care of someone with a bad "responsibility field" exposes that tool to the vagaries of that person's incompetence and/or irresponsibility.

So . . .

Whatever it is in someone's life that makes it so that he doesn't own the thing he wants to borrow from me will tend to act on whatever I lend him.

I don't know nor care how someone got that way, all I care about is that his bad "tool karma" doesn't involve my tools.


Therefore, in general, and with very few exceptions, I don't lend my knives.

 
After reading through the first few pages of this thread I'm left to wonder- What is it about some knife owners that they feel compelled to tell other knife owners how they should use or treat THEIR knives?

Maybe I'm just simple-minded but I say, you do what you want with your knives, and I'll do what I want with my knives. I won't judge you for how you treat the knives that YOU bought so don't judge me for how I treat the knives that I bought.

Ahhh Bladeforums, a place to discuss knives, argue about knives, and pass judgment on others for how they choose to treat their knives. What fun. :rolleyes:
 
I guess I would solve this problem by never carrying a knife that I wouldn't want to use on any reasonable task. Meaning, if I'm carrying a knife in my pocket, I'm not going to mind scratching the coating or dulling it a bit.
I can certainly appreciate owning a knife that you don't want to use. Those are collectibles, of which I have many. But I also stand firmly in the camp that says this looks good:
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killgar said:
After reading through the first few pages of this thread I'm left to wonder- What is it about some knife owners that they feel compelled to tell other knife owners how they should use or treat THEIR knives?

Maybe I'm just simple-minded but I say, you do what you want with your knives, and I'll do what I want with my knives. I won't judge you for how you treat the knives that YOU bought so don't judge me for how I treat the knives that I bought.

Ahhh Bladeforums, a place to discuss knives, argue about knives, and pass judgment on others for how they choose to treat their knives. What fun. :rolleyes:
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Exactly! Do whatever you want with YOUR knives. Not with mine :)
 
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