Everyone's opinion please...

Esav Benyamin said:
What do you want them for, use or display? What kind of knives do you have now and what characteristics do you like?
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This is more important than most first time buyers think when blowing $400 for a knife. Comparing the features one by one shows a lot of difference in the blades, grips and intended purpose of the knife.

You'll be a lot happier with the final decision if you draw up a "Ben Franklin" comparision list and see where the most checkmarks or best ranking comes our for your priorities.

Blade style:
Grind:
Choils:
Opener:
Blade stop:
Point style:
Blade finish:
Heat treat:
Blade steel:
Pivot construction:
Lock style:
Lock safety:
Handle construction:
Handle fasteners:
Handle materials:
Handle style:
Handle finish:
Bolstered:
Clip:
Clip fastener:
Lanyard hole:
Lanyard hole location:

and the one nobody likes to say - ABILITY TO IMPRESS:

By no means is this exhaustive; but once you go through the list and catagorize the different features, then prioritize them, you will get a real understanding why you choose that particular knife, rather than feeling remorse over an emotional choice that made you feel good, but doesn't live up in the steel. Especially when four bills are at stake - allenc and I don't always agree, but gee, it is a lot of money - you could buy five great knives with that.

I bought the SnG.
 
I traded for an SnG and bought an ER Nemesis second-hand.

Frankly, starting out with a really great knife is a good idea, but starting out with a really expensive knife maight not be. If the money really is not in question, go ahead. But I seriously think anyone who has to ask which high-price knife they should buy, hasn't done enough background reading.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Frankly, starting out with a really great knife is a good idea, but starting out with a really expensive knife maight not be. If the money really is not in question, go ahead.
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Good point. When I first started collecting, I thought the $100 mark was expensive, and that I'd never pay that much. I started small, did my homework, tried different styles and materials, etc. I've since moved up in my price ranges, which has netted me some great knives, but hammered the wallet.

As most will say, it's performance, not price. There are a ton of great knives that don't cost an arm and a leg. I frequently use a Delica or small Case CV stockman, depending on my mood, and they're great. I've been itching to try out the new Kershaw ZDP mini cyclone. While not inexpensive, it certainly seems a lot of bang for the buck.

-Dan
 
MD13 said:
Good point. When I first started collecting, I thought the $100 mark was expensive, and that I'd never pay that much. I started small, did my homework, tried different styles and materials, etc. I've since moved up in my price ranges, which has netted me some great knives, but hammered the wallet.

As most will say, it's performance, not price. There are a ton of great knives that don't cost an arm and a leg. I frequently use a Delica or small Case CV stockman, depending on my mood, and they're great. I've been itching to try out the new Kershaw ZDP mini cyclone. While not inexpensive, it certainly seems a lot of bang for the buck.

-Dan
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or even the new zdp spyderco's

and dont forget second hand stuff,some great deals from bf members
 
I'd go with the Sng or XM-18. I do not own and XM-18 but have only heard fantastic things about it. The Sng which I do own is an extremely good, and tough EDC.

While I do try to answer questions as directly as possible on this forum I think what Esav, tirod3, and MD13 have said is very important and worth considering.
 
Another thing to consider before you buy an expensive knive...

While there are tons of reviews and testing and opinions about low-to-high end knives, it can be difficult to get a wide range of accurate feedback on the actual performance of custom, semi-custom, and high dollar production knives.

This is mostly because of two reasons:

1) There are less users who actually own custom, semi-custom, and expensive production knives.

2) MOST folks who do own such knives seldom put those knives throught the same abuse as they do their low-end blades.
THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS...but most folks don't treat a $400.00 dollar custom made knife the same as they treat their Leatherman Multi-tool blade, or their Spyderco Native from Walmart.

Not many folks are willing to push an expensive folder till it breaks and then write about it here on the forums.
And because of this, it's hard to separate the hype from the truth when it comes to actual performance and toughness of high dollar knives.
 
I've never handled an XM-18. I have handled the Fulcrum and own an SNG. With that said, I think the XM-18 and SNG are comparable as great all around knives. The Fulcrum is more of a extreemly hard use tool.
 
I agree on the 'extremely hard use'. The Nemesis is one of the few knives i own that seems more combat than utility oriented.
 
I've handled Rick Hinderers knives, not that particular model, but they were all impressive pieces, rock solid pieces and more than "worth" every penny. I own a SnG Tanto, which I love and trust with any cutting job and feel was "worth" the money. The ER I have no experience with, but haven't "heard" anything bad about them. The guys here have given you some great advice though.:thumbup:
Cheers,
Rob
 
I agree that expensive knives are not neccisarily better than cheaper knives but I find comparing the two pretty useless. Fit and dinish is going to be better on the customs and semi customs but are they really bettr knives? thats for the individual to decide. Its like buying cars. For some people the toyota echo is much better than a porche boxter.. The fit and finish on the echo isnt as good( not leather seats, worse stereo etc) however it is cheaper on gas and will get you from a-b just like the porche. Which is the better car? I personaly would rather drive the porche around because I like how it looks, more fun to drive etc.

So, back to my point, comparing the two is like apple and oranges...its just a different level of quality and has a different level of class that goes with it. Would a xm-18 out perform 4 manix knives? probably not...would it out perform 1... most likely... but would you like the xm-18 more than 4 manix knives? I certianly would and it would be the knife id reccomend getting. Id love to get one myself but they are hard to come by these days. G'luck
 
Its like buying cars. For some people the toyota echo is much better than a porche boxter..
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No, no, no...the car comparison analogy simple dos not work when talking about knives.
The Porche can demonstrate measurable performance superiority to the Echo...more horsepower, more torque, higher top speeds, faster speeds in turns, larger brakes, more responsive suspension, stronger transmission, etc...

But this is not the case with knives.
Most high dollar knives often actually perform no better, and in some case much worse, than low dollar knives.

In other words...
No one would buy a Porche if it actually PERFORMED like an Echo.
But some folks don't mind buying a high dollar knife that actually PERFORMS no better than a low dollar knife.
 
ask Rick about his warranty. it's as good as Striders.

for me, the XM-18 wins hands down.
 
As usual, allenc is half right.

High dollar knives do perform better if the steel is superior, the lock mechanism built to perform consistently, and the ergos superior. For example, a Buck linerlock 420mod vs. a Sebenza framelock S30V.

It's been repetitively discussed that higher grade steels offer more cuts between sharpening because of more abrasion resistance. The steel is stronger in most factors, allowing more abuse before fracturing, heat treats are superior, assembly more painstaking with tighter tolerances to ensure consistent lockup, and ergonomics held to a higher standard for comfortable use, rather than barbs and glitz to catch the unknowlegeable eye.

Are there diminishing returns for the higher price? Yes, and exclusivity, which is part of the price, too. I don't see Boxers on the road much except around law offices and such. I don't expect to see SnGs, XM-18s, or Sebenzas on the factory floor, either, and it's rare to see better than an old Schrade folder, so you do get what you pay for.
 
High dollar knives do perform better if the steel is superior, the lock mechanism built to perform consistently, and the ergos superior. For example, a Buck linerlock 420mod vs. a Sebenza framelock S30V.
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I'll concede that superior steel equals superior performance, but there are so many inexpensive knives with superior steel and reliable locks that there really is no need to pay more, except for elitism.

Even a $55.00 dollar Spyderco Endura 4 with VG-10, and the time proven lock-back, will easily hold its own against a $400.00 dollar Sebenza in actual cutting performance.

I understand the desire for expensive things and I understand that nobody needs to justify to anyone else how they spend their money.
But we must not delude ourselves in to thinking that price equals performance when it comes to knives.
Truth be known, for the vast majority of everyday slicing and dicing, most knives can"t even best the humble $20.00 dollar Opinel in cutting performance.
 
Yeah, like a $20 Opinel is equal to my XM-18 in ANY capacity!! ROFLAO!!! Yeah, right!!
 
TheKnifeCollector said:
Yeah, like a $20 Opinel is equal to my XM-18 in ANY capacity!! ROFLAO!!! Yeah, right!!
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I totally understand your unwillingness to admit the truth, considering the money you spent and all, but the humble Opinel is a real slicing machine.

Its thin flat-ground carbon steel blade makes it one of the best slicing knives ever.
There's a good reason that it's been around for over 100 years:
It works!

No, it's not the quickest to deploy.
No, it certainly is not the strongest knife around.
No, it does not have the strongest lock on the planet.

But it simply excells at what a knife should do...cut things.

What exactly do you think your XM-18 can cut that an Opinel cannot...or that a Buck 110 cannot...or that an Endura 4 cannot...or that a Victorinox cannot...?
 
allenC said:
But it simply excells at what a knife should do...cut things.

What exactly do you think your XM-18 can cut that an Opinel cannot...or that a Buck 110 cannot...or that an Endura 4 cannot...or that a Victorinox cannot...?
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Be runover by a vehicle. :D

Realistically the knives listed can never be as good of an EDC choice as the XM-18 because the XM-18 is stronger, nicer looking, better steel (often better cutting ability, certainly better wear resistance, and dependent upon the knife, better corrosion resistance)

Does that make XM-18 what ever price it is? Well like you accurately stated thats a whole other story.

What this means - price does not make the knife better but the best knives (what ever they are) are often much more expensive. While there appears to be an exponential difference between great knives and what is considered the best knives, there certainly is a difference even if it isnt a "380 dollar difference".
 
Realistically the knives listed can never be as good of an EDC choice as the XM-18 because the XM-18 is stronger, nicer looking, better steel (often better cutting ability, certainly better wear resistance, and dependent upon the knife, better corrosion resistance)
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Not so fast...

The Opinel:
Yes, the XM-18 is stronger.
No, the XM-18 is not better looking (beauty being in the eye of the beholder and all), the Opinel has an Old World charm that the XM-18 can never achieve.
Better steel? No, the carbon steel of the opinel is an excellent performer.
S30V is different, but certainly not better.
Cutting ability? It depends upon what you're cutting. The Opinel will out cut most modern tacticals on most things.
Better wear resistance? Again, no.
Better corrosion resistance? Yes, I concede this without argument.

Buck 110:
No, I'm not convinced that the XM-18 is stronger than a Buck 110, why do you think so?
No, the XM-18 is definitely not better looking. The buck 110 is a classic for a reason, and part of that reason is its beauty.
Better steel? It depends...the 420HC is easier to sharpen and takes impacts better than S30V (and no chipping issues which S30V can be prone to).
But I do concede that the S30V will hold an edge longer.
Cutting ability? I seriously doubt it. The Buck 110 has one of the best blade designs ever and makes an outstanding cutter.
Better wear resistance? Maybe, I'm not sure.
Better corrosion resistance? No, the 420HC has better corrosions resistance that S30V.

Endura 4:
Stronger? Again, I'm not convinced that the XM-18 is stronger than the Endura 4 at all.
Better looking? Yeah, the E4 is kinda ugly...like a Glock 17.:D
Better steel? No, I like S30V alot, but I don't think it's superior to VG-10 in the least.
Cutting ability? Again, I doubt it. Sal really did a great job re-designing the Endura to create the Endura 4, and it really cuts great.
Better wear resistance? Maybe, I'm not sure which steel holds the edge in wear resistance...the same with corrosion resistance.

Victorinox...let's use a old model like the Soldier:
Stronger? Sure, why not.
Better looking? No, not really.
Better steel? Again, it depends upon what you mean by better.
Cutting ability? Maybe, maybe not.
The Soldier model is a great slicer, but it will dull faster than the S30V.
Wear resistance? Okay, I'll concede this one.
Corrosion resistance? No. I've never seen rust on a Vic SAK.

When you get right down to it, there's very little to even suggest that the XM-18 performs better than knives costing 1/3 its price.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but MrPres asked for our opinions and I really think that he would be better served with a less expensive knife, IF he's looking to get the most performance for his money in a knife.
 
I'm convinced, as I'm sure many others are, that the XM-18 is stronger (depending upon which knife, a lot stronger) than the other knives mentioned.

I am and always have been, however, that one should start with a cheaper (quality) knife until one knows exactly what one wants.

EDIT: better steel probably was an overstatment and would have to be an opinion but I mentioned all the atributes in comparison to different knives. I managed to find this if you are interested http://www.rickhindererknives.com/knives/xm-18/new_page_1.htm
 
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