EXTREMA RATIO Col Moschin Guarantee

baffone said:
First time i see a Col Moschin broken....
All the italian collector have one, but nont many use it...is a fighter, not the best kamp knife, but our incursori della marina (best italian corp, very similar of Navy Seals) receve one when finish training.
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That's not true, Baffo.
 
Sadly...but true. And the steel has a bad grain, determined by an unsuccessful treatment and, maybe, a large misunderstanding from the Bohler\Uddeholm (don't remember). Voices says that a lot of n690co, was in real, 440 series. So, tons of 690 should be 440 in real. And obviously, all the people who bought it, treated in the wrong way. Treating n690co as 440c. First problem.
Second one, to me, is the fact that 690 didn't add anything on steels world. It's not a super steel. It has a normal rust resistance, it's hard to resharp and will never take a fine edge. In MY personal opinion.
Who said tha has never had problems with it, should tell us more than a simple "no problem". What it means? Where you use it? with what? in which conditions? which steels do you compare with it?
And, for hard use, hollow grind is not a big deal anyway.
 
Hi I don't believe you when you say that the knife in the picture" fell on the ground from aproximatively 1,50 m and it broke in half". I Don't think it's possible to break a col moschin in this way and neither the Extrema ratio believe you, that's why they have n't change your knife. It's more probable that you have used the col moschin like a camp knike and you have broke it while you was batooning with the blade.... The extrema ratio has a different guarantee from busse and esee, they change the knife only if it is defective, they don't cover abuse. I know they should, but actually they don't. Besides the Extrema usually do a lot of test on his knife, if you go to their website you can see the fallen test made with the military version of the fulcrum, a different knife, but it fell from 1,5 m and from 3,2 metres and the knife was only scratched a little.
 
Drakul Mihawk said:
Hi I don't believe you when you say that the knife in the picture" fell on the ground from aproximatively 1,50 m and it broke in half". I Don't think it's possible to break a col moschin in this way and neither the Extrema ratio believe you, that's why they have n't change your knife. It's more probable that you have used the col moschin like a camp knike and you have broke it while you was batooning with the blade.... The extrema ratio has a different guarantee from busse and esee, they change the knife only if it is defective, they don't cover abuse. I know they should, but actually they don't. Besides the Extrema usually do a lot of test on his knife, if you go to their website you can see the fallen test made with the military version of the fulcrum, a different knife, but it fell from 1,5 m and from 3,2 metres and the knife was only scratched a little.
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This be your first post so..
You work for Extrema Ratio or what? :D
 
A.L. said:
This be your first post so..
You work for Extrema Ratio or what? :D
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So ... if someone says something sensible and logical ... he works for ER!?!
I believe that Drakul Mihawk has just wanted to say that it is quite ridiculous that a knife will break simply falling from a height of one meter and a half.. and nothing more. In this case, in my opinion, the ER has just wrong not to respond publicly to our friend, and not providing (publicly) an explanation of why acted that way. On the other hand, the warranty is clear: knife replaced only if flawed in origin ... and not replaced if it is used in a manner other than that for which it was designed and intended for use. In essence, the word of one, VS the word of the other, does not lay down a judgment... the goodness of a product is determined by the statistics collected on the field. Otherwise, it seems to me that your judgments lapidary, and without a doubt, betray something personal against ER ... but maybe I'm wrong ... I have so many questions and so few certainties... :D
 
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I don't know, I can't say, but to me, it looks odd to suddenly appear and defend company like that.
It doesn't matter, I will stay out of their products.
 
Well. Yes. It's a little strange for a steel blade to break in that way, for a 5feet fall. Really strange. I've just said what is my opinion on ER, so nothing more to say.
But, if i complete agree with the first picture, i 'have many problems to accept the last one as a real one. I mean..come on. Maybe if you put the knife to -220° and then you crash it on an anvil.
I'm more confident in a extreme torsion of the blade or an heavy lateral impact with a solid body.
Anyway, in the same time the tip was broken, they have to change the blade. That's it. Regardless any distructive condition cause it.
 
MELERIAN said:
Well. Yes. It's a little strange for a steel blade to break in that way, for a 5feet fall. Really strange. I've just said what is my opinion on ER, so nothing more to say.
But, if i complete agree with the first picture, i 'have many problems to accept the last one as a real one. I mean..come on. Maybe if you put the knife to -220° and then you crash it on an anvil.
I'm more confident in a extreme torsion of the blade or an heavy lateral impact with a solid body.
Anyway, in the same time the tip was broken, they have to change the blade. That's it. Regardless any distructive condition cause it.
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Regardless of ER, I've seen numerous blades broken from "strange" reasons. Chopping a ping-pong ball, just being stuck into tree, being dropped on hard surface. Nothing special.
Of course it IS knifemaker/producer fault/responsibility (as he is responsible for his product), but it is nothig REALLY unsusual.
 
I don't write so much ,but i read ,for me the first picture of the brake point show a wrong structure of the grain ,look like it is to coarse,i'm sorry if my americans is not correct.
 
nicola panciera said:
I don't write so much ,but i read ,for me the first picture of the brake point show a wrong structure of the grain ,look like it is to coarse,i'm sorry if my americans is not correct.
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...maybe... in fact it is undisputed that the first knife had to be replaced by the ER (of course... after examining the knife, and having found flawed in origin). The real question concerns the second broken knife... and the way in which it broke.
 
idaho said:
Regardless of ER, I've seen numerous blades broken from "strange" reasons. Chopping a ping-pong ball, just being stuck into tree, being dropped on hard surface. Nothing special.
Of course it IS knifemaker/producer fault/responsibility (as he is responsible for his product), but it is nothig REALLY unsusual.
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That's correct... keeping in mind that the guarantee of ER involves the replacement of the product only if it was defective in origin, and not in the case in which the knife has been used in other ways than those for which it was built
 
A.L. said:
I don't know, I can't say, but to me, it looks odd to suddenly appear and defend company like that.
It doesn't matter, I will stay out of their products.
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Dear AL, obviously our friend Drakul Mihawk (...at least I assume so) read all these posts, and found a good opportunity to write the first time on this forum, just in response to these posts... nothing unusual or malicious, from my point of view. When you, instead, states "I do not know, I can not say" ... you should at least give the benefit of the doubt, rather than expressing an opinion so sharply. However, each of us approaches to things as he wants ... we are lucky that we can still do it! ;)
 
Extrema Ratio, imo, are the industry's worst joke.. They are outrageously priced mediocre products
 
A.L. said:
I don't know, I can't say, but to me, it looks odd to suddenly appear and defend company like that.
It doesn't matter, I will stay out of their products.
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Hi i don't even know exactly where the E.R. is in italy, i believe somewhere in toscana, however to say something that goes again the the previous comments, i must work for someone???? i cannot think with my own head??? or i must say like the others that the E.R. sucks without evidence??? Like i said i think that is not possible to break a col moschin in that way, i believe is possible to break only the tip from that height, infact it appened at the beginning, maybe he said an half truth, the 1.5 metres was the fallen that broke only the tip, and now he is lying to get a new knife. Besides the point of the fracture is too strange for a falling, of course knife can break with a fall, but it appened in different points, like the tip, near the guard, where there is a hole, or in the end of the tang. The point of this fracture is too strange for a fall, especially from 1,5 metres. If i had the money now i will buy a col moschin only for repeat this fall, because i'm sure it wont break in this way.
 
argonauta66 said:
...maybe... in fact it is undisputed that the first knife had to be replaced by the ER (of course... after examining the knife, and having found flawed in origin). The real question concerns the second broken knife... and the way in which it broke.
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Yes my problem are with the second broken knife, even the line of the fracture it's too strange, it seems to be caused by a bump from the top downwards, as during the batooning.
The fact remains that the E.R. should have change for free the first knife, even if it was used like a camp knife, but not the second one.
 
Drakul Mihawk said:
Yes my problem are with the second broken knife, even the line of the fracture it's too strange, it seems to be caused by a bump from the top downwards, as during the batooning.
The fact remains that the E.R. should have change for free the first knife, even if it was used like a camp knife, but not the second one.
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...exactly what I meant...
 
NetshadeX said:
Extrema Ratio, imo, are the industry's worst joke.. They are outrageously priced mediocre products
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...no doubt ... in fact, ER has been present for 10 years on the U.S. market ... and the same goes for Europe ... take a look at sales ... obviously, we are all benefactors! ;)
 
argonauta66 said:
...maybe... in fact it is undisputed that the first knife had to be replaced by the ER (of course... after examining the knife, and having found flawed in origin). The real question concerns the second broken knife... and the way in which it broke.
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In the second knife, the grain is not so bad.
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You don't need a lot of energy to break those little knives species where there is a trigger to the break(serrated portion) , you can see the curves(chevron marks) where it is broken,t's "probably" been folded and the curves show where it is likely to spread a clique , I do not think has been dropped.
The tang is broken because the hole is not at the center, so during the heat treatment is created tensions, and yields at that point.
Designing wrong.
l72u.jpg

These steels have a low toughness species to the hardness of use.
The low temperature do not help to the resilience

I'm sorry i use google translete !:D
 
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