Extrema Ratio MPC folder

brownie0486 :

The knife suffered from extensive edge chipping [ admittedly under some very hard use by this guy], lack of holding a decent edge at all, ...
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These class of problems can generally be solved with use of a heavy secondary edge bevel. I worked in construction and many relatives still do. Frequent metal and other hard contacts tend to really raise the durability tolerances.

I have a nice wetterling axe which worked fine for me even on the hardest of woods, loaned it out and it came back quickly with heavy gouges in the edge from nail contacts. I used a heavy additional bevel and the axe held up fine from that point on.

the pivot stretched from prying so that even when it was retightened it still had blade play side to side, and that led to continuous failure to lockup reliably.
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Yeah this I would expect of many folders, most can't take lateral forces at all without coming apart quickly. The worst I have seen was with a Cold Steel Vaquero Grande which actually came apart under vertical prying as the pins all sheared through the plastic handle.

...the Chinook has taken the abuse that it has and still keeps on going.
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Interesting there, I would expect the Chinook to have a more acute edge angle than the Emerson considering Spydercos general trends, is this the case, if so it points to a much tougher steel for the Spyderco (either inherent in the steel or heat treating).

-Cliff
 
Brownie0486,

Excellent review. Both you and Ken Cox have sparked my interest in this company's folders.

Extrema Ratio's folders seem to belong in a new category:

Uber-tank
 
Cliff Stamp:

The Chinooks edge has not been changed from the factory as received. Neither was the Emerson.

Looking at them, I would have guessed the Chinook edge would hold up better but that is total subjecture on my part.


thombrogan:

If you don't mind a knife thats 1/2 pound in your pocket or up on your waist, it's good to go for hard use and survival under the worst of conditions.

DumboRat bought one based on my statements and he has written a few times to say it was everything I had found it to be in fit, finish, quality and overall stength.

Though it is 1/2 pound, it sits well in the pocket and is not a problem, the weight not really that noticeable. On the waist [ where I'm wearing mine ]it is no problem as well.

I'm EDC'ing the MPC there [ on the waist ] as it is for emergency use where I may need a knife to cut my way out of an Amtrak train if derailed [ if I survive, I ride one everyday to and from ]or an elevator, things that an ordinary knife, even most straght blades would not be able to do.

As far as I'm concerned, the MPC or any of their folders are folding prybars with an edge.

Their edge looks like an axe and consequently are not the best "slicers", yet the edge is sharp and will cut vigorously when necesary.

The Strider SnG is on the RFP as a defensive tool, the MPC is my always carried survival tool [ like my surefire E2 flashlight on my waist everyday but hardly ever needed ].

Again, the Sng is solid and worthy of my carrying it for defense. Very solid piece. However it doesn't compare to the MPC in strength.

Forethought goes a long way to extending ones ability to "get home".

Brownie
 
Originally posted by brownie0486
If you don't mind a knife thats 1/2 pound in your pocket or up on your waist, it's good to go for hard use and survival under the worst of conditions.
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Well, being used by me isn't the worst of conditions, but I still don't envy knives in my incapable hands.

I haven't even tried one out and already I feel like Homer in a Ribwich stupor.

Do you think the MBTA folks would let you cut through a train or two in the Sullivan Station area to confirm your confidence? I think they repair trains there not too far from the orange line.

If those folders, the Fulcrum series in particular, can cut through Amtrak trains and pop open bags of cat food, I think I'm sold.
 
If it was three years ago, a very good friend and student of mine ran the "repair shop" out of South Station and I probably would have been able to use an old Redline car thats not going back in service to test it. That contact is no longer around, he took the early bye-out and is retired at 46 and traveling the country in his RV/Motorhome with his wife.

Keep in mind this MPC has the glass breaker at it's rearend. In an emergency such as a train wreck, I'm not going to have to find the handle, pull down and away, remove the rubber gasket and pull the glass toward me. I'll be capable of hitting the glass and escaping. Perhaps hitting several that are not emergency escape exits as well so the rest near me can get out at the same time in lieu of following me out the one I'm near. It won't matter where I'm sitting, the nearest window gets punched several times as a loadfist and we are on the way PDQ.
Time will be of the essence in that scenario.


Burchtree:

I agree, it will of course need some effort to cut yourself out of a steel can but if you rely on their emergency equipment to get out, you are not going to make it. All the emergency tools have been stolen and not in their respective places.

Brownie
 
As a Strider-oid/-ite or otherwise Strider devotee, it has taken me a while to come around to actually purchasing an ER folder -- despite my underlying lust for their cosmetic appeal ( cut me some slack, I like the way H&K rifles and pistols look as well as Chris Bangle's new BMWs, OK? LOL :) ), I'll admit that I was hesitant about their claimed durability and toughness because of their industry-standard conditional warranty (as compared against, Say, Strider's, which has no "escape clause").

Honestly, after having bought the MPC on faith from brownie's detailed reviews of this item (I've seen other such glowing reviews before, but brownie's struck a chord with me as his was both logically presented as well as in that he's a known Strider devotee himself), I now also own a Nemesis (which has promises to be an excellent slicer/slasher, it looks just like a folding fillet knife on steroids) and have a double-edged Limited Edition Col Moschin fixed blade on its way......

The sound of the lock engaging in these folders is literally like the bolt on a rifle slamming home or the slide of a .45 ramming forward into battery. There's nothing else like it.

I've seen plenty of demonstrations either videotaped or live with many lesser knives slicing, dicing, and punching through car hoods and door, and glass -- I have no doubt that these ERs can do the same.

In the right hands, I'm sure that they can be devastating not only as a slasher or stabber, but also quite an effective "control device" as well due to the pronounced hilt and pommel. In trade for this solidity, they're heavy, and also rather large overall.

Are they "better" than a Strider or other rugged folders in this size and price range? Are the others someow "worse?"

I don't think that's something that can be quantified, and is more than likely a combination of having precisely the right knife for a specific situation as much as it personal preference.

What I can say, however, is that these knives are worth their entry price; that Frank and the guys over at ER-USA *_will_* take good care of you; and that for a Mall Ninja/Pencil-necked White-Collar Paper-Pusher type like me, it's far more likely that I'll break well before the ER sustains any significant damage.

:)

Allen
aka DumboRAT
 
Thanks, Allen!

Strider's unconditional warranty appeals to me because there are times when tranquilized oxen have more dexterity than me and their folders are some of the best looking folders I've ever seen. With the full flat grind on the spearpoint SnG's, I can easily see them outslicing most of ER's folders. Unlike with other competitors' knives, I don't think the SnG will slice through an ER folder.

I think the ER Fulcrum or Nemesis may be part of my quest to find a me-proof folder.
 
Hi everyone, I have had my MPC for a while now, and was wondering if anyone has tryed using the flat part of the spine (of the blade) to hammer anything? When I have it open with the spine facing forward, I 'flick' it forward, simulating hammering on something, and I get an odd clicking noise with a feeling like there is some'give' in the lock. Have any of you MPC owners experienced this? I have full confidence in Extrema Ratio, and am waiting for my T2000M to arrive, but I haven't really 'tested' the hard use applications, thanks to y'all.:)
 
EasEWryder:

The flat was made to be used as a striking surface with the blade edge meeting resistance while the spine is hammered at the flat as if splitting wood or pounding the edge into some other material.

As I understand your description, you have the knife locked open and are spine whacking the blade against hard targets.

It's good to note the knife is taking that action without failure, I'm not sure many other types of locks would hold up so well.

The flat wasn't put there to hammer the spine IMO. I'm not sure what forces would come into play with the lock, doing this.

Turned around, edge placed on a hard target, it can be hammered at the flat on hard targets and should not experience any failure as the lock really isn't coming into play. When hammering the spine into material, the blade is really the only part that stressed, again IMO.

It's not something I believe it was designed for [ using it as hammer, spine whacking the blade ].

Brownie
 
Brownie,

There are many aspects here for this debate. I'll try to be clear.

For some reason, the knuts here take good knives and push them beyond their design limits. Even Mick Strider shot his folder with a rifle.

But, in the end, a knife is made to slice, and it's a tool. Your friend who used a folder to pry demonstrated the strength of that tool, but in fact, used the wrong tool. I think we all know that some type of prybar was the right tool. I've always carried some type of folder, but I used a cat's-paw for pulling nails as a carpenter's helper.

As to the SnG as a 'combat item,' I disagree. To be sure, soldiers carry Striders. The SMF was designed for Marines. That fact alone does not make it a 'combat knife.' Even soldiers need tools. Soldiers need to shave, as well. Is there a tactical Norelco?

We should all be so lucky to own any of the folders mentioned here, be it Chinooks, SnGs, ARs, Tomcats or Extrema Ratios. They can also all be used as hammers and boat anchors. But it seems a waste.
 
Brownie, I am not spine-whacking, I am 'imitating' the spine whacking, in the air, and getting the noise, not actually striking anything. I figured it was a point to be struck, not a 'hammer' area, with that cleared up, do you have any idea about the mystery click? Thanks:)
-EasE
 
Originally posted by DumboRAT
I'll admit that I was hesitant about their claimed durability and toughness because of their industry-standard conditional warranty (as compared against, Say, Strider's, which has no "escape clause").
Allen
aka DumboRAT
Click to expand...

Just call Frank Miller at ER and he'll tell you what he can do in the event of a problem with one of his ER knives. This is a man who provides some of the best customer service you will find. :)
 
I don't think the goal of any folder is to be first or foremost a comabt tool as well.

The idea behind building stronger folding knives is that they may have to be used hard in combat, and that added strength helps get one through the night if necessary.

Straight knives like the k-bar are and have been mostly used as tools by the military issued them in combat.

Others goals have been to build a folding knife that is as strong and capable as possible for a folder to supplement the straight knife should the need arise.

Certainly they are not meant to be used as prybars primarily, but they may be called on to perform tasks which include prying.

If soldiers are going to carry a folder in combat [ can't get away from that ], the goal is to make available to them a folder that has a chance of surviving the extremes of that environ.

Consequently, we have seen companies emerge that are attempting to fill the requirement of GI's.

A soldiers issued k-bars were issued them as tools to dig, chop, cut, hack, open c-rats, ammo crates, etc., anything that may be required of it by the soldiers, dictated from needs in the field over the years.

The companies making designs and producing stronger folders, by design, from superior/best materials available, with their mission statement to serve the soldiers, are attempting to fill a demand for them.

Harsh environs of combat in a GI's hands in the field will dictate what works and what doesn't fairly quickly. That can and does include mundane chores such as digging, prying, chopping, opening ammo crates, etc..

So if a company attempts to produce a folder that the GI can rely on as rugged enough to withstand these requirements in the field, if and when it is necessary to use the folder for whatever reason in those capacities, their product should hold up to similiar stresses out of the combat arena.

There are few companies who make a folder rugged enough to be considered in the first place.

The Extrema Ratio folders were specifically designed with the combat soldiers requirements in the field in mind.

The Strider folks had the same idea when they spec'ed theirs. The folks at Strider are ex military and have a solid base from which to work from in designing and building their products.

These types of folders should withstand the rigors which the soldier will possibly need to put it through in the field.

When I did my time, an E-tool was the correct tool to dig a foxhole and open open ammo crates. We didn't have them available to us when we needed them most of the time. The k-bar stood in a lot for this duty. It was on our person 24/7 and so available.

We didn't have the types of folders we have today when I was active. If we had, I certainly would have carried the best [read strongest] folder I could get my hands on. Not to replace the k-bar, the entrenching tool, or a prybar but to supplement it as a backup to my straight knife which saw all kinds of chores it should not have seen.

As you mentioned, the SMF Strider has been chosen for the MARSOC's elite Marine forces. I have two on order. They will never see the potential of abuse that they may actually get in the field by my brothers in arms.

We do have knives being produced with the soldier in mind. Anything involving a soldier in the field will surely get rode hard and put up wet.

Can they stand the rigors of combat field conditions, can they stand the soldiers abuse as a field expedient prybar?

Some can and some can't. Civilians who want a strong folding knife are going to look at the hard use guys in the field for answers as to what works and what doesn't work well. Which folder has the greatest chance of "pulling it off" is the question.

My contractor who "abuses" the Chinook by prying with it, among other things is no different than the soldier who does the same thing prying the lids off an ammo crate or stabbing into a can of c-rats. The question is how much will the design and materials take before it does fail.

The SMF may not be a combat knife, but it is built with the idea of a soldier using
it hard, by ex soldiers who understand what parameters will need to be met for the soldier to use it and have a chance at standing the rigors it "may" receive in a worst case scenario.

Most folding knives are not designed as such and would not stand up for long under extreme conditions. They may be accecptable and be accepted in and for the civilian world where the majority likely will never see more than small cutting tasks.

Not everyone has the goal of the toughest knife in mind when they buy them. Those that do have choices unavailable to me when I could have used one.

Brownie
 
EasEWryder:

Got it.

From experience, I have an Elishewitz custom titanium. Carried it EDC off side as a defensive knife for 5 full years.

"popped" it open hard thousands of times, no issues with spine whack failing, anything breaking.

On a dummy at training in LR one year, I produced a hard slash and the lock released.

Sent it back to Allen who stated I had worn the pivot out of round to the point where it allowed the blade to go further back toward the spine eventually and consequently released the pressure on the linerlock.

It's fixed now, refurbished at the same time and has been put away.

By what you are doing, my guess, and only a guess is that by snapping it hard to open, the spring in the lock is being forced by cenrifugal force to move farther than any wrist flick, pop, or thumbstud opening would ever create.

In doing so, you may be hearing something related to the lock mechanism being forced to a point where two parts are momentarily out of normal range and making contact.

Doing so repeatedly may cause premature wearing of the lock.

Brownie
 
Weird. I don't 'pop' or 'flick' it open too hard... Just enough to get lock up, and most of the time a little secondary 'flick' of the wrist is needed to fully engage- I kinda baby my MPC:rolleyes: Have you tried the 'spine whack in the air flick'? I wonder if it's just me...:confused:
 
EasEWryder:

I just took mine out and tried it. All I hear is the lock engaging solidly.

My middle finger can feel the lockbar engage as the blade is opened.

Mine came adjusted so that it opened everytime quite easily with no blade play.

I have tightened and loctited the pivot screw tighter than it came, not because it needed it for any reason as far as the knie is concerned.

I tightened it until I could thumb it open manually with some resistance, yet it is still smooth.

My idea is that this is a folder I will EDC for any extreme emergencies. Lateral blade play at prying will be reduced as such and take more force/energy to tweek the blade thusly.

It "pop"s open from the pocket very nicely even tightened as it is if I should need to access and open it PDQ.

I don't think this knife needs to be babied. I'd run it through its paces good.

I have plans for mine as a review on our website one day.

Brownie

Brownie
 
I think that perhaps, my description is off.
in the open position, with the lock engaged, MPC held with the tip up, blade facing in. Kind of a 'snap cut(?)' spine whack forward without actually striking anything. When I do it, I hear a faint 'click' which I am pretty sure is not lateral play, but more like a little lock play... maybe. Anyways, I hope this provides a more accurate description of how I am getting this little 'click'. Thanks Brownie:) :) :) :)
 
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