Extrema Ratio's Ontos Real field testing Check it out.

[marcinek]

I deny any education in applied physics, but if the handle is below the tip and you strike the blade end, the fulcrum of the lever is likely about at the blade/guard junction. They used to teach about levers in Boy Scouts.

Precisely. Which is why keeping the point below the handle is the proper technique. Heck, you can baton an Opinel like that.

 

[marcinek]

Since we are discussing the ONTOS...here it is! With all the items included in its Ultimate Survival Accessory Kit (included for the about 500 bucks the knife costs)

 

[marcinek]

Ok, ok I can't help but bite here, fair enough, if this knife does nothing for you, each to their own, however: What "treatment" are you referring to regarding the ONTOS is not good for batoning? There is a dedicated full width section for this very purpose on the spine. In fact there are few knives, with the exception of some Strider's and Hogue's, that instantly come to mind that have a full width spine extending to the tip, which is suggested as being able to be used for batoning.

The full width section on the spine of a Mora is much longer, actually.

 

[DPC]

Since we are discussing the ONTOS...here it is! With all the items included in its Ultimate Survival Accessory Kit (included for the about 500 bucks the knife costs)

Price is my primary concern with Extrema Ratio. Sure everything reeks of tacticoolness, but I think it's a bit over the top.

I'm glad to see they work in real life.

 

[craytab]

My goodness that is expensive for a knife in that steel and with a handle that looks that uncomfortable. But people like what they like I guess.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Say, marcinek, I see your Ultimate Survival Kit expired in 21113. Better check on that.

What sets these knives apart from other survival knives is that ER started with a clean slate and asked what was needed in a pure mid-sized SERE (Survival, Evasion, Rescue, and Escape) knife in an urban and woodland environment.

It seems that the Ontos was designed for urban survival:
The results were two crossover knife kit systems; the Ontos addressed Urban survival and Selvan addressed woodland. - See more at: http://www.alloutdoor.com/2013/10/0...s-survival-knife-review/#sthash.8psfiojU.dpuf

The Selvans is a pure woodlands, subsistence, and survival knife developed by master instructor Daniele Dal Canto of F.I.S.S.S. (Italian Survival Federation). Daniele wanted to tune the already popular Ontos design to increase the performance of the knife as a working tool with a longer handle and heavier blade and lower angle edge grind for improved chopping and cutting for the needs of extended subsistence survival. - See more at: http://www.alloutdoor.com/2013/10/0...s-survival-knife-review/#sthash.8psfiojU.dpuf.

The blade on the Selvans is quite different that the Ontos. The Selvans blade as taller, a little shorter (6.1” length), and omits the faux top edge grind to increase weight. Instead of the serrations, Extrema Ratio left the top edge squared for use as a fire striker or bone breaker for large game. The edge itself is a lower grind angle, extending over 1” up to the full blade width for a much finer and sharper edge. - See more at: http://www.alloutdoor.com/2013/10/0...s-survival-knife-review/#sthash.8psfiojU.dpuf

The handle is also different and has been extended to a hand and a half length which provides comfortable normal, choked up, and a solid grip at the far end of the handle, which greatly improves chopping strikes. The striking, glass-breaker pommel has been removed to provide greater comfort when using the extended grip. Besides, there’s not much glass in the wilderness. - See more at: http://www.alloutdoor.com/2013/10/0...s-survival-knife-review/#sthash.8psfiojU.dpuf

The Selvans was designed under the assumption that many of the typical survival kit items would be in a primary pack. The result is an attached survival kit with a different intent and contents including: whistle, pocket chain saw, water purifying tabs, full sized compass, copper wire, ferro rod flint and striker, led micro torch, 2.5 meters of Paracord, and a diamond sharpener. These are the tools you would need while away from your campsite for scouting, foraging, gathering materials, and hunting. You’ll have a few survival items in case you get stuck on the way back to camp. Like the Ontos, the Selvans Kit is housed in a smaller MOLLE compatible nylon case attached to the knife sheath, and it can be detached and mounted to the belt or pack separately for increased comfort or flexibility. - See more at: http://www.alloutdoor.com/2013/10/0...s-survival-knife-review/#sthash.8psfiojU.dpuf

Extrema Ratio Ontos Specs
WEIGHT: 400 g -.88 lbs
BLADE LENGTH: mm 165 – 6.5”
TOTAL LENGTH: mm 298 – 11.73”
BLADE THICKNESS (MAIN BLADE): mm 6.3 -.25”
BLADE STEEL: N690 (58HRC)
HANDLE MATERIAL: FORPRENE
SERRATION ON THE BLADE: YES
BLADE: BURNISHED
MSRP: $588
STREET: $439.00
SHEATH: Nylon, Green or Coyote Brown

Extrema Ratio Selvans Specs
WEIGHT: g 424 – .93 lbs
BLADE LENGTH : mm 155 – 6.1”
TOTAL LEGTH : mm 310 – 12.2”
BLADE TRICKNESS : mm 6.3 -.25”
BLADE STELL : N690 (58HRC)
HANDLE MATERIAL : FORPRENE
SERATION ON THE BLADE : NO
BLADE: BURNISHED
SPECIAL: SURVIVAL KIT
MSRP: $634-$759
STREET: $422-$493
SHEATH: Nylon, Green or Coyote Brown


ONTOS
SELVANS

 

[Jens Schuetz]

My goodness that is expensive for a knife in that steel and with a handle that looks that uncomfortable. But people like what they like I guess.

I would never buy one ultima ratio since in my opinion for that price there isn't much feedback out there of how long the lock lasts how their steel and ht compares to others etc. Even heard here on bf of them not honoring their warranty. On top of that they don't seem popular and the resale value might be too low in the future.

The handle however I know works for me. I had a chance to use the Rao of a friend. It looks bad and hot spots seem to scream at you where the finger groove starts and ends. The thing is I don't feel them. At first I was surprised but then realize that while chopping I held it like a Kukri which has a "hotspot" at the same location and all the steep angle there does is securing the handle in your hand and preventing it from sliding.
Now I have big hands and some fingers are in the groove and some below. Somebody else's finger might lie directly on that spot. That would hurt. But then the thing is so big that a hand could easily adjust here and there to not get torn up.

 

[marcinek]

Say, marcinek, I see your Ultimate Survival Kit expired in 21113. Better check on that.

Uh oh! Well...maybe one can get a deal on one with an expired survival kit. 50 bucks off or something.

 

[BladeScout]

Ok so to prompt this further, anyone else like to comment, opinion or not. I can't believe no one has heard of Extrema Ratio. Surely there must be someone out there who owns or has used or held this particular knife??

Of course people here know ER.
You want comments - okay then.
That is one butt ugly knife.
Several ER knives look horrible and for the money, Id rather buy something else.

I like the handle on the 'Selvans' a tad better.

Dont get me wrong; there are a couple of ER knives, that I kind of like - for some reason, I like the Col Moschin. Its still butt ugly and Im never going to buy one.

I really like the 'Pugio.' Should I get a good deal on a used one, I might buy it. I dont know why, as I have absolutely no use for a dagger like that...., but when has that ever stopped us

 

[FCCBCT]

I deny any education in applied physics, but if the handle is below the tip and you strike the blade end, the fulcrum of the lever is likely about at the blade/guard junction. They used to teach about levers in Boy Scouts.

If the knife is relatively weak at the blade/guard junction (Ka-Bar MK II), having the maximum force on the blade at that location might not be good (You recall that broken Cold Steel, right?).

FCCBCT, I saw you review of the Kizlyar Supreme Survivalist X. How would you compare the Survivalist X and the Ontos?

Hi there, well I'm not so sure the handle is "below the tip", also the real fulcrum of the Ontos is not like their other knives, it at the guard. I'll look at the KBAr MKII, i know I've batoned the beejeezus out of my Spec Plus on 25cm diameter 3 year seasoned Oak and it's still in one piece and that's a clip point.

The Survialist X is much lighter in the blade for sure as the sheet is only 5mm and there is a big fuller/blood groove. The handle is ok for a basic round, with knurling for grip metal handle but in the cold, if your forget or loose gloves you would freeze your fingers to it. On saying that I haven't taken it into the snow yet but it's a good bet. As for strength, you saw what I did with it and no problems, no movement at all in the connection of blade to handle.
Survivalist X wins on weight Ontos wins on comfort, both chop well and both can hack at things with the spine swedges, both have serrations except of course the Ontos's ones are on the spine, both can strike a steel. I guess there is still a strong following of people who like the hollow handle knives. I think and say think as I did not test this, that the Ontos would win out on hammering in the long run as probably hammering with the Survialist X would put a lot of undue stress on the joint but on saying that this knife model has really undergone some serious beating by some big Russian guys in several YT videos and it was still in one piece.

 

[FCCBCT]

Of course people here know ER.
You want comments - okay then.
That is one butt ugly knife.
Several ER knives look horrible and for the money, Id rather buy something else.

I like the handle on the 'Selvans' a tad better.

Dont get me wrong; there are a couple of ER knives, that I kind of like - for some reason, I like the Col Moschin. Its still butt ugly and Im never going to buy one.

I really like the 'Pugio.' Should I get a good deal on a used one, I might buy it. I dont know why, as I have absolutely no use for a dagger like that...., but when has that ever stopped us

Fantastic! and thanks. I know that people here have heard of ER, I was being facetious LOL. If one hasn't then one must have been lost in the Bermuda Triangle! I think the Selvan's handle was "extended" in order to achieve more distance from the fulcrum for better swinging, though mind you I don't seem to have a problem with the Ontos wanting to "let go when I'm swinging it.

 

[FCCBCT]

The full width section on the spine of a Mora is much longer, actually.

No arguments there. Your survival kit of course comes from BCB nothing to do with ER except they are reselling them like many other companies. They are not very good if you've seen my reviews and blogs about these kits. I won't go on about them here as this thread isn't really about them but suffice it to say cheap contents, poor made products, I don't trust my life or those around me with them. I left the kit behind. Ok the cheapo wire saw was ok I cut down giant bamboo with it. The multi tool chucked out immediately. Inclusion of Tampons and condoms are in MHO for armchair survivalists. The whistle was also cheap rubbish. Ok that's enough.

 

[FCCBCT]

Price is my primary concern with Extrema Ratio. Sure everything reeks of tacticoolness, but I think it's a bit over the top.

I'm glad to see they work in real life.

Ungainly as it may appear ( I did think this the moment I took it out of the box) they do work as you say "in real life" and I'll be taking it back to the jungle and some deserted coastal regions later this year.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Survivalist X wins on weight Ontos wins on comfort, both chop well and both can hack at things with the spine swedges, both have serrations except of course the Ontos's ones are on the spine. . . .

Survivalist X also comes with plain edge.

 

[stabman]

Looks like a knife.
It'll probably work a lot like...a knife.

If people don't want one, then they probably shouldn't buy it.
If they do want one, they should probably buy it.

Myself, I don't really want one.
For the price I certainly like other offerings better, and even if it were cheaper, I like other offerings better.

I wouldn't cry if someone wants to gift one to me though.

 

[Bobby3326]

Hi there, well I'm not so sure the handle is "below the tip", also the real fulcrum of the Ontos is not like their other knives, it at the guard. I'll look at the KBAr MKII, i know I've batoned the beejeezus out of my Spec Plus on 25cm diameter 3 year seasoned Oak and it's still in one piece and that's a clip point.

The Survialist X is much lighter in the blade for sure as the sheet is only 5mm and there is a big fuller/blood groove. The handle is ok for a basic round, with knurling for grip metal handle but in the cold, if your forget or loose gloves you would freeze your fingers to it. On saying that I haven't taken it into the snow yet but it's a good bet. As for strength, you saw what I did with it and no problems, no movement at all in the connection of blade to handle.
Survivalist X wins on weight Ontos wins on comfort, both chop well and both can hack at things with the spine swedges, both have serrations except of course the Ontos's ones are on the spine, both can strike a steel. I guess there is still a strong following of people who like the hollow handle knives. I think and say think as I did not test this, that the Ontos would win out on hammering in the long run as probably hammering with the Survialist X would put a lot of undue stress on the joint but on saying that this knife model has really undergone some serious beating by some big Russian guys in several YT videos and it was still in one piece.

Fantastic! and thanks. I know that people here have heard of ER, I was being facetious LOL. If one hasn't then one must have been lost in the Bermuda Triangle! I think the Selvan's handle was "extended" in order to achieve more distance from the fulcrum for better swinging, though mind you I don't seem to have a problem with the Ontos wanting to "let go when I'm swinging it.

No arguments there. Your survival kit of course comes from BCB nothing to do with ER except they are reselling them like many other companies. They are not very good if you've seen my reviews and blogs about these kits. I won't go on about them here as this thread isn't really about them but suffice it to say cheap contents, poor made products, I don't trust my life or those around me with them. I left the kit behind. Ok the cheapo wire saw was ok I cut down giant bamboo with it. The multi tool chucked out immediately. Inclusion of Tampons and condoms are in MHO for armchair survivalists. The whistle was also cheap rubbish. Ok that's enough.

Ungainly as it may appear ( I did think this the moment I took it out of the box) they do work as you say "in real life" and I'll be taking it back to the jungle and some deserted coastal regions later this year.

do you realize there's a multi quote option rather then a cluster of consecutive posting?

 

[ATwistedStaple]

I'd be more interested in the knife if the handle was about 8" longer. With that thick blade and the steep grind angle it seems more of an axe than a knife(think Japanese style hatchet) and a longer handle would make it immensely more useful.

I rather like the serrations actually. They're well placed on a portion of the blade that's relatively useless. I generally don't like serrations, but in that location you get them at no cost, so what the hell. They may come in handy.

I'm not an Extrema Ratio fan. From the name alone I could've told you I wouldn't like their stuff. Compared to some of the folders I've seen though, the Ontos seems pretty sensible. If they'd shave a mm or two off of the thickness and carry the primary bevel up a bit further I think they'd find more interested consumers.

 

[FCCBCT]

Looks like a knife.
It'll probably work a lot like...a knife.

If people don't want one, then they probably shouldn't buy it.
If they do want one, they should probably buy it.

Myself, I don't really want one.
For the price I certainly like other offerings better, and even if it were cheaper, I like other offerings better.

I wouldn't cry if someone wants to gift one to me though.

Hi Stabman, yes right on. I do apologize if I sounded like I'm trying to sell one, I couldn't care less if anyone buys one or not. BTW is that a Komodo Dragon avatar? I've been there and up close to these guys and the same on Rinca island too- sorry I get distracted. Anyway, yeah I don't buy anything I don't like either.

 

[FCCBCT]

I'd be more interested in the knife if the handle was about 8" longer. With that thick blade and the steep grind angle it seems more of an axe than a knife(think Japanese style hatchet) and a longer handle would make it immensely more useful.

I rather like the serrations actually. They're well placed on a portion of the blade that's relatively useless. I generally don't like serrations, but in that location you get them at no cost, so what the hell. They may come in handy.

I'm not an Extrema Ratio fan. From the name alone I could've told you I wouldn't like their stuff. Compared to some of the folders I've seen though, the Ontos seems pretty sensible. If they'd shave a mm or two off of the thickness and carry the primary bevel up a bit further I think they'd find more interested consumers.

I was skeptical about the placement of the serrations when I first took the Ontos out but as you say I think on the spine where they are don't get in the way. I thought maybe my thumb might tend to rest where they are but that wasn't the case and found them good for cutting up lawyer canes ( A type of palm commonly found in tropical jungles, can be called Ratan by some- covered in vicious needle-like spines) as they are really useful for make things with and start fires with too.
Personally I don't care about what a (knife) company is called but only how they make their products and how useful I think those products will be to me, how long do I think it will last, warranty and is it possible to actually speak to someone if I need to.

As to a Japanese hatchet, well I lived in Japan for a bit got to see and use many, maybe maybe but the Japanese hatchet is far lighter as it is thinner of course in the blade and a bit longer.

Thanks for your comments!

 

[FCCBCT]

No but thankyou for alerting me to this. As you can see I'm newish here as a contributor, apologies for my stupidity.