Extreme Sharpness Comparison - S110V vs Super Blue - Measured Test - BESS

Ankerson

Ankerson

Knife and Computer Geek
Joined
Nov 2, 2002
Messages
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Here is what I did:

Took two Mule teams, S110V and Super Blue, sharpened them both to 400 grit and 15 Degrees per side on the Edge Pro.

Measured the actual Sharpness with the Edge On Up sharpness tester Model KN100.

http://www.edgeonup.com/eou_web_pagelarge_003.htm

Testing medium was Cardboard.

Cut 10 linear ft per knife then check sharpness again and went on that way until I reached 50 linear ft for each knife.

Starting Sharpness:

S110V - 53 BESS
Super Blue - 54 BESS

Finishing Sharpness:

S110V - 164 BESS
Super Blue - 164 BESS


Conclusion based on testing and actual measurement taken with a certified testing device.

Dead tie, both steels (knives) were within 20 grams on the BESS scale during the testing process and finished the same at 164 BESS.

The only conclusion is there is no real difference in extreme sharpness edge holding between the 2 steels as measured and tested.

The whole process was only 110 points on the BESS Scale or about 6% of the scale that goes from 0-2000.



Photos:

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YES! Finally an answer to my question. it's how one sharpens not the steel. Time to reevaluate my techniques haha.
 
DeadboxHero said:
YES! Finally an answer to my question. it's how one sharpens not the steel. Time to reevaluate my techniques haha.
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What I have trying to tell people for a very long time. ;)

Now I have a Certified Device to actually measure it.
 
Thanks for the testing Jim. Would you be willing to do that test again with a more polished edge? I know thats not the kind of edge you typically work with but I think it would be interesting and informative to see the results.
 
Surfingringo said:
Thanks for the testing Jim. Would you be willing to do that test again with a more polished edge? I know thats not the kind of edge you typically work with but I think it would be interesting and informative to see the results.
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It wouldn't matter, not at this level of sharpness anyway. ;)

Sharpness is by definition the actual apex width measured in Nano Meters, there is no way around that.

That is what this thing measures.

One would need a real lab, Electron Microscope, lazer beams and other extremely high tech stuff to get any more accurate and tell the difference beyond what I can do with what I have.

But then nobody would be able to see those small differences without actually having something to measure it on the Nano Meter level in a real lab with the above equipment like in the last sentence.
 
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Ankerson said:
It wouldn't matter, not at this level of sharpness anyway. ;)

Sharpness is by definition the actual apex width measured in Nano Meters, there is no way around that.

That is what this thing measures.

One would need a real lab, Electron Microscope, lazer beams and other extremely high tech stuff to get any more accurate and tell the difference beyond what I can do with what I have.

But then nobody would be able to see those small differences without actually having something to measure it on the Nano Meter level in a real lab with the above equipment like in the last sentence.
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Are you sure? I don't know the answer but this is an area of much contention and disagreement. It would be nice to see someone objectively test it. Sorry, I know I'm trying to talk you into doing a bunch of work you don't want to do. :rolleyes: :D

FWIW, I tend to believe that a knife's ability to hold the extreme sharpness we are talking about is governed in large part by hardness.
 
Surfingringo said:
Are you sure? I don't know the answer but this is an area of much contention and disagreement. It would be nice to see someone objectively test it. Sorry, I know I'm trying to talk you into doing a bunch of work you don't want to do. :rolleyes: :D

FWIW, I tend to believe that a knife's ability to hold the extreme sharpness we are talking about is governed in large part by hardness.
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I know, I already did all the polished edge stuff years ago, pretty extensive testing too and never noticed much if any difference.
 
NeilB said:
Also, how about testing 8CR13MOV versus S110V? :)
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That's pretty much the end of it here.

Showed 2 steels on the each end of the spectrum, I did that for a reason. ;)

Testing anymore steels like this would be redundant IMO.

It does basically come down to sharpening.
 
Surfingringo said:
Are you sure? I don't know the answer but this is an area of much contention and disagreement. It would be nice to see someone objectively test it. Sorry, I know I'm trying to talk you into doing a bunch of work you don't want to do. :rolleyes: :D

FWIW, I tend to believe that a knife's ability to hold the extreme sharpness we are talking about is governed in large part by hardness.
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There is a lot of that once we start to cut out farther in the dulling.

I was just measuring for any difference in extreme sharpness only for this test.
 
Very interesting. Thanks Jim. I looked at the link you provided. If I read the information correctly (listed for their most expensive model - hopefully they all work the same), they state that the sharpness can be measured regardless of the edge angle - though it looks like the more expensive model can handle a wide variety of blades/edges. So, this may be horribly obvious, but for my own understanding, if one measured the sharpness of a very fine, very sharp blade like a straight razor and, say, one of the blades you used in this test, I would guess that the straight razor may start off with a higher sharpness reading. After 50 feet of cardboard, if the razor actually made it that far, one of your test knives would most likely be showing the higher sharpness?

The less expensive test units aren't horribly expensive. It seems like it would be fun to have one at home to compare one's own sharpening abilities for a given knife. Thanks again Jim. Always appreciate the work you do. Mike
 
Very interesting and informative; throws a lot of light on the power of marketing and fads.
 
me2 said:
What would be considered very dull on the BESS scale?
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2000 would be extremely dull

Haven't seen anything over 700 yet that I cut with. ;)

That's even the knives I tested before I got it and never resharpened.
 
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Mike157 said:
Very interesting. Thanks Jim. I looked at the link you provided. If I read the information correctly (listed for their most expensive model - hopefully they all work the same), they state that the sharpness can be measured regardless of the edge angle - though it looks like the more expensive model can handle a wide variety of blades/edges. So, this may be horribly obvious, but for my own understanding, if one measured the sharpness of a very fine, very sharp blade like a straight razor and, say, one of the blades you used in this test, I would guess that the straight razor may start off with a higher sharpness reading. After 50 feet of cardboard, if the razor actually made it that far, one of your test knives would most likely be showing the higher sharpness?

The less expensive test units aren't horribly expensive. It seems like it would be fun to have one at home to compare one's own sharpening abilities for a given knife. Thanks again Jim. Always appreciate the work you do. Mike
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I believe they all work the same, just different models for different things. :)

Don't know about the straight razor thing other than the good ones are very thin so i wouldn't want to cut cardboard with one.
 
Aias said:
Very interesting and informative; throws a lot of light on the power of marketing and fads.
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As I have been saying all a long, sharpening is the key.

This was testing for extreme sharpness, now things would change if I kept going and the carbides took over.
 
Understood--always enlightening. If you keep testing, I'll keep reading! :thumbup:
 
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