F.F. D2 better than INFI?

[OldPhysics]

Excellent! Thanks -- that makes good sense and does answer my key questions.

I particularly appreciated the careful process description. It made things a lot easier for this old hog to understand.

 

[2knife]

I have a basic question about physics, and steel. I'm trying to understand the principles.

If two knives are made from the same steel, ground to the same specs and have the exact same Rockwell hardness at the edge, geometry and initial sharpness, is it possible for one of these knives to have a much improved edge holding ability due to differences in the type of heat treating it receives? Why, or why not? Would an ultra-fine grain refinement in the edge area in one of the knives give it the ability to stay sharp longer? If so, why?
David

 

[Cobalt]

I have a basic question about physics, and steel. I'm trying to understand the principles.

If two knives are made from the same steel, ground to the same specs and have the exact same Rockwell hardness at the edge, geometry and initial sharpness, is it possible for one of these knives to have a much improved edge holding ability due to differences in the type of heat treating it receives? Why, or why not? Would an ultra-fine grain refinement in the edge area in one of the knives give it the ability to stay sharp longer? If so, why?
David

YES. heat treat is the most important factor.

 

[Last Visible Canary]

I have a basic question about physics, and steel. I'm trying to understand the principles.

If two knives are made from the same steel, ground to the same specs and have the exact same Rockwell hardness at the edge, geometry and initial sharpness, is it possible for one of these knives to have a much improved edge holding ability due to differences in the type of heat treating it receives? Why, or why not? Would an ultra-fine grain refinement in the edge area in one of the knives give it the ability to stay sharp longer? If so, why?
David

even at the same Rockwell hardness your heat treatment will determine the level and presence of martensite, austenite, and... grainite ... as well as the size of the carbides that are present, and what type of carbides.

each one of these factors will change the properties of the steel, from plasticity to the type of edge it is able to take (toothy or smooth), as well as how much pressure and force is required to bend or fracture the knife.

the easiest to see is when d2 is heat treated to have really large carbides, vs the ff process which processes d2 to have very small carbides. when the carbides are extra large, they will be easier to "knock out" of the steel matrix, leaving micro pits that are prone to chipping and deformation. when the carbides are extra small, the wear is more uniform across the rest of the steels microconsituants and surface area, allowing for a more consistent wear pattern that is less prone to deformation just by the lack of micro pitting.


or so my lack of education says. for the record: I have failed college 3 times now. :thumbdn::grumpy:

 

[catf1sh]

I didn't know it would take a junk lawn mower blade 2,771 chops to cut through a 1'' manila rope. I"m impressed!!!!!!!!!!

 

[catf1sh]

I didn"t know it would take a junk lawn mower blade 2,771 chops before it would cut through anything!

 

[Last Visible Canary]

I didn"t know it would take a junk lawn mower blade 2,771 chops before it would cut through anything!

your going to want to edit out that smiley (tis banned here)

 

[Last Visible Canary]

lol, also - what???

are you referring to the blade jerry used in his quote? are you implying that it took 2,771 "chops" before one peice of manila rope was cut, as apposed to the knife making 2,771 cuts before dulling/running out of rope?

I don't know what your quote means or what it is implying... it doesn't seem to reflect whats been said.

 

[resinguy]

don't feed the troll....

 

[Last Visible Canary]

don't feed the troll....

Troop,
The edge on your new Wayne Goddard Traditional Hunter, with black micarta handle, is a modified convex edge. It was a 300 grit Diamond belt under a coolant mist. All of these high performance blades are treated to the upmost respect in our facility.

apparently he works in a facility that makes or grinds or finishes ffd2 blades. I'm not trying to feed anything, I just didn't understand what he said. maybe the grammar is incorrect and the written statement is incorrect to what he meant to say.

 

[Cobalt]

I didn't know it would take a junk lawn mower blade 2,771 chops to cut through a 1'' manila rope. I"m impressed!!!!!!!!!!

wow, you just compareD INFI to a junk lawn mower blade?

oh, but wait you think you are anonymous and can troll around because you have only three postings but you know what, sometimes the past comes back to haunt you.

so run when everyone reads that you are in fact working for the diamond blades. Excellent way to represent your company by trolling and attacking. :thumbup: LOOSER

Troop,
The edge on your new Wayne Goddard Traditional Hunter, with black micarta handle, is a modified convex edge. It was a 300 grit Diamond belt under a coolant mist. All of these high performance blades are treated to the upmost respect in our facility.

 

[cjpgeyer]

Yeah...looks like 300 cuts on rope and this FFD2 is done. Don't pry, or it bends (but the edge will be intact!).
Now people involved with FFD2 are slamming other products?
The proof is in the eating...will they take the Busse challenge at Blade, or run to the hills?
Oh, and how many sharpenings does it take before there is no friction forged area left?

 

[Cobalt]

Yeah...looks like 300 cuts on rope and this FFD2 is done.

Don't pry, or it bends (but the edge will be intact!).

Oh, and how many sharpenings does it take before there is no friction forged area left?

actually, these are good points. and they were said without trolling.:thumbup:

very localized hardening is a longterm issue. Will it last through maybe 5 years of heavy use and sharpenings? who knows. No one knows yet. We do know that INFI will last a decade of serious hard use in jungle environment. In any case these steel are not even in the same league.

FFD2 was meant to be better than other stainless steels, they would be foolish t take the challenge and fall apart. I have a BME that is itching to come down to Blade 08 and take on whoever or whatever.