FAA Bans ALL Knives ...

Hopefully the ban in knives is emotional reactionary thinking, and after forumites and others talk to political representatives, they will see that banning SAKs does no good. Terrorists will, as said before, use somethign else! They'll stab pilots in the neck with pens if they need to.

Will armed martials do the trick? What about a bomb on a plane? I am not sure if an armed air martial could do much against this threat. It is really sad to hear that people like firemen are DENIED a useful tool because of this.
 
I'd like to say that although I am typically more of a firearm person, I do take a special interest in edged weapons. Being a lover of Mad Dog knives and Spyderco's I can appreciate a good blade.<br>
Anyway .. to get to the topic .. banning knives from commercial airlines is not going to help anything. As any LEO can tell you, weapons can be made out of anything, a toothbrush, soap, a fork, a pen or even a stale piece of toast. The bottom line is that in the event of an emergency, it takes any modicum of control away from the everyday person and puts it in the hands of a government whom may be totally incapable of protecting our lives.

Just my .02
 
Some thoughts...
El Al, Israeli airline, has a sky marshall on EVERY flight.
We need to do that too.
Banning knives is a knee jerk reaction, yes. BUT it is also a step to make the general public feel safer.
Let's face it we are a minority, not the general public.
If the terrs had the wherewithal to send the people to flight school and wait for them to qualify they could get any thing on an aircraft. Security may seem tight for passengers, but is almost nonexistant for airport personnel. All they'd need to do is comprimise/recruit a maintenance, food service, cleaning worker etc and they could get weapons hidden on board before the terrs were even on the plane.
As far a s the people overpowering the terrs...never before has a plane been used as a weapon, therefore it is highly unlikely that the passengers would have thought that. The terrs said that they'd kill everyone, but don't they always say that? Most likely the passengers thought that it'd be a hostage situation with a good chance of rescue. and if they saw a crewperson murdered, it could be pretty convincing to sit tight.
Like all of the other "What would you do if...." threads, there is no pat answer, cause you aren't there & the circumstances are different each time. Not black & white, always gray.
And my thoughts on frangible bullets...what if you miss? A pinhole in the pressure hull is enough to compromise it.
That's it, my 2¢ has run out.
:mad: :mad:
 
As much as I love my pocket knives. I agree with banning knives from cabins until the airlines can implement sky marshalls on each plane. Once there is on plane professional security, I don't think that a small keychain type of knife constitutes a risk. If the airlines go the sky marshall route, I don't guns and bullets are worth the risk to the cabin. I would recommend that marshalls be equipped with taser type stun guns that could incapacitate threats with electric shock. I would also recommend that marshalls be armed with very concentrated pepper spray that shoots in a very thin line that could also incapacitate threats. Finally, they should have old fashioned police sticks that they can use to brain threats if necessary. Ideally, there would be two sky marshalls on larger planes for both first class and the rest of the passengers. I would also recommend that they be required to maintain contact with one another and the pilots at predetermined intervals that change according to each flight. This system would be expensive but no matter what is done, added security will result in added expense.
 
The arguement to ban knives because they were used to kill people during this tragedy is the same as the arguement we should ban planes because they were used to kill people during this tragedy.

As for as Sky Marshal weapons....tasers (even the newest AirTaser) are basically one shot weapons. OC (pepper spray), even fired in a steam, would contaminate the entire cabin, contaminate the air supply, and likely cause panic in the cabin. It would also affect the Marshal (been there, done that with a stream cannister indoors). I still think the best currently available option is a firearm with low-penetration rounds.

You could arm the flight crew, but they'd have to have the training and the mindset to be able to engage and destroy their targets in close range combat. Since many, if not most, pilots are former military pilots...I actually think you'd find quite a few qualified individuals.
 
A pinhole in a pressure hull isn't going to cause much of a problem in a modern heavy aircraft, even at altitude. You'd be surprized at how big a hole you could punch in the skin of one of those things without a catastrophic failure.

One would also be surprized at just how tough the skin of a major aircraft is. I seriously doubt that a frangible bullet would penetrate. In fact, a subsonic round from a 9mm, .40 or .45 would, probably, also be contained, especially with all the padding they use to cover the inside of the tube. The biggest danger would be ricochet or blowing out a window and even that wouldn't be enough to bring a large plane down. Those things are stronger than most folks realize.

Air marshalls aren't a bad idea but all of the other stuff is just a visceral reaction to terrible events that will have no effect on anyone who is intent on breaking the law. Most of it is for show...to demonstrate to the public that those in authority care and that they are doing something to remedy the situation.

All this has been said before but I really have a problem with the mentality that allows increasing infringement of any right in the name of "safety" or "security".

I've read on these forums words from those expressing comtempt for "the 'sheeple' who were cowed by boxcutters". Words written by those who weren't there and who are using the benefit of hindsight from the safety of their computer stations to condemn the actions of people they don't know and who had no idea what their situation really was or what was in store for them. That makes me sad.....and disgusted.

As far as I'm concerned, the REAL "sheeple" are the ones who are so ready and eager to "donate" their (and everyone else's) rights to preserve their own personal safety. That's who I'll reserve my contempt for.

My prayers are for the unfortunate folks on board those 4 aircraft and on the ground in Manhatten and Washington DC and my respect for those Firemen, EMT's and LEO's who were lost....and the heros of flight 93.
 
i'm not at all suprised they banned knives, and i have to agree - save your time writing to complain, isnt gonna help right now - just be glad they dont wanna ban knives, period, everywhere
sifu
 
I too think that banning knives will not improve airplane security. Sky marshalls and bulletproof cockpit door would do much better job. A friend of mine is a retired commercial airline pilot. It has been an opinion among pilots for a long time that cockpit doors currently used are a joke.

In general, I don't think that you win with terrorists by disarming people. "The system" cannot protect you all the time.

Note also that even if you handcuff everybody on the plain you make the job easier for hijackers that penetrated steward crew. Maybe the answer is to hibernate everybody for the air travel. You wouldn't need stewards then. I don't know ... thinking this route is just ridiculous.

Kris
 
Originally posted by Ric24581
The arguement to ban knives because they were used to kill people during this tragedy is the same as the arguement we should ban planes because they were used to kill people during this tragedy.
Click to expand...

True.
 
i like knives as much as any of you

but if i know nobody else has a knife or a gun/weapons on a plane, because the airport has done a through search of all people, i would feel better

i feel that the hijackers didnt have to smuggle the box cutters and pocketknives into the plane. they probably just walked thorugh with them and said they were for arts and craft work they were gonna do, or whatever.

and i dont think its a good idea saying that if everybody else had a knife, then they wouldnt have gotton anywhere. one, cos they did say they had a bomb. two, would you want everybody pulling out their knives to use as weapons on an aircraft ? (think of the mess) and three, if the terrorists know everybody is armed with knives, then they will obviously get something which is more lethal. it just escalates, with the person who fires first coming out on top. here, the passengers did havbe a chance in overpowering them. but if they had brought a more destructive weapon like a gun, then the passengers wouldnt have had a chance.

and what would you rather be attacked with anyway ? a sharp pencil or a small tactical knife ?

and stop saying that even belts and ties can be lethal in the right hands. of course, you dont even need anything to be lethal if youre trained well enough. so what should we do ? ban everybody who knows close combat fighting from planes ?

i wouldnt want to leave my knives in my ain luggage, but maybe have some locked box where all the confiscated knives are taken to the cockpit and kept till the flight is over. and if one goes missing, the airlines reimburses the passenger.

that said, i hope our freedom to carry knives in public is not infringed upon because of this. but i think its a good idea to have them taken away when onboard planes.

Daniel
 
I wonder how security would react to someone carrying a large chunk of flint and a medium sized rock.

-Latebound
 
I think that knife people discussing why we should be alowed to have our knives on planes is pointless at this time.
At this point anyone with a pocket knife is presumed to be a danger, if not a terrorist, until proven otherwise.
I think that our efforts would be better spent convincing people on an everyday level that KNIVES are not to be feared. Go forth and use your knives in front of people, try to reenforce the idea that they are useful everyday tools.
JB
 
Originally posted by avpshadowman

and stop saying that even belts and ties can be lethal in the right hands. of course, you dont even need anything to be lethal if youre trained well enough. so what should we do ? ban everybody who knows close combat fighting from planes ?
Click to expand...

Not lethal, just a better weapon to counter a knife, and there at our disposal. My point was that, as you said, with training, you won't need a knife, and it won't seem so all fired important to carry one on a plane.

Did anyone who fired off an angry letter to their government representatives sign up for a MA class? Or even check out a school?

Here's one for the would-be Air Marshalls (and that's probably every one of us, me included) - Go to a MA school, and tell the sensei that you want to try coming at him, or a senior student, with a dummy knife, down a narrow aisle like in a plane. Sign the waiver and go for it. Find out what you're really talking about.
 
I agree there is never going to be an all encompassing solution, nor does anyone know for 100% sure what they would do under the passengers circumstances. Yet with everyone here going through their own life lessons and who have been in life threatening situations before have a better idea what they would do, but it's unreliable to guess either way. I just hope & pray that I never have to find out what I would do in the passengers shoes.

I am scared that this knife ban could be a catalyst towards larger and larger bans of knives everywhere. We've seen it happen with our handguns. The way knives are being singled out as the reason this was able to happen also scares and angers me. Only time will tell but you can guarantee this incident didn't help the view of knives or the people who love them and are fascinated by the great ones often viewed on this board!
 
We all know that banning all knives in the cabin of Aircraft and Airport Security Zones is an ineffective Knee Jerk reaction.

Let's allow things to calm down a little bit and work with the AKTI and Elected Representatives to restore sanity.

However, We might as well start by recognizing that the Sheeple of the world will demand some type of restrictions and try to make those restrictions reasonable even though we understand that they will not accomplish anything.
 
Originally posted by King Grinch
What about the serrated STEAK knives they give to people in First class? Are they banned?
Click to expand...

Actually, I think they are.

-Travis
 
No steak knives in first class or in the airport past the security checkpoint.
 
I just finished talking to a travel agent who told me that even checking knives into luggage will be prohibited from now on. I wonder if knives can still be delivered via airmail?
 
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