Factory Edge

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I like to keep the factory edge for a time. Then reprofile or touchup as the need arises.

My sharpest knife outta the box was a Cold Steel Leatherneck SF. That bad boy was eager to cut stuff.
 
Modernflame said:
A new knife is a joyful experience, but the ability to cut things out of the box is a bonus. Mostly, I'm grateful for symmetrical edge bevels. I own a wood inlaid large Sebenza 21, which is a flawless specimen of CRK perfection. However, it arrived as dull as a butter knife with wacky uneven bevels. I've seen the same from other makers, so this is not a knock against CRK. I just use factory edges for whatever they are worth then apply my own.
Click to expand...
Nothing against CRK guys too, I just find that rather strange. That’s a premium knife, so it should come with a flawless premium edge as well. I hope it doesn’t happen too often.
 
I hope qc overlooks the dull ones. I'd rather get a dull knife than one that hit that belt grinder a second time. As for CRK, I think they should build a jig for the knife sharpening dude. I can't imagine that they push out enough volume for that to be a problem. Obviously, larger companies like Benchmade can't slow down that much, but uneven bevels are not cool, man.
 
Another Shepherd said:
You will not be able to read this on a phone, but let's see how it looks anyway.
Code: 
<pre>
Sharpness measurements (BESS scores) on 96 blades using an Edge-On-Up PT50A.
The blades had previously cut nothing more than a piece of computer paper.
The column labeled Sharp is the average of 5 or more measurements.
The value of Sharp is also plotted as a hash/pound/number sign.
Individual measurements are plotted as dashes.

Sharp  Steel       Make             Model                                     0.........100.......Sharpness Measurements in Grams.......500........600   Price

  40   ?           Goodline         Double Edge Razor Blade @B                .   -#--               .           :            x                      .    0.76
  46   ?           Goodline         Double Edge Razor Blade @A                .    -#                .           :            x                      .    0.76
 128   CPM-SPY27   Spyderco         Para 3 Blue @D                            .              -#--    .           :            x                      .  140.00
 129   AUS-8A      Cold Steel       Finn Wolf Orange                          .            ---#      . -         :            x                      .   43.99
 130   CTS-BD1N    Spyderco         Manix 2 Blue                              .             - # -    .           :            x                      .  105.00
 132   M390        Bradford         Guardian 3 Blue                           .            -- #---   .           :            x                      .  169.95
 135   AUS-8       CRKT             Nirk Tighe 2 Blue                         .              --#  -  .           :            x                      .   82.95
 136   Elmax       Bradford         G-Necker                                  .               -#-    .           :            x                      .   79.95
 143   AUS-8       SOG              Flash II @B                               .               --#--  .           :            x                      .   62.95
 145   AUS-8A      Cold Steel       Tuff Lite Red                             .                -#-   .           :            x                      .   27.99
 147   440C        Maserin          975 Sax (Combo Smooth)                    .               - # -  .           :            x                      .   67.96
 148   CPM-S30V    Spyderco         Sliverax                                  .               - #--  .           :            x                      .  177.80
 148   CPM-S45VN   Spyderco         Para 3 Black @C                           .              -- #  - .           :            x                      .  147.00
 150   5Cr15MoV    CRKT             Folts Minimalist Bowie Neck Black @B      .               - #- - .           :            x                      .   25.95
 ... a whole bunch of data omitted to stay under 10000 characters ...
 314   440A        Marbles          Large Lockback MR565 Orange               .                      .   --  -  -:  #         x                     -+    9.99
 330   Tru-Sharp   Case             Tribal Lock Orange                        .                      .     - -   :    #  - -  x   -                  .   55.99
 336   AUS-8       Camillus         Mountaineer (Combo Smooth)                .                      .          -:-    # --  -x                      .   56.66
 359   AUS-8A      Spartan Blades   Enyo Bronze Line Field Grade Neck         .                      .   -    -  :       -#   x     -       -        .   88.00
 359   8Cr13MoV    CRKT             Ryan Johnson RMJ Owlet Neck               .                      .    -      :       -#   ---                    .   22.95
 416   ?           Frost            Fire Fighter Red                          .                      .           :  -     -   x-#       -    -       .   10.00
 433   CPM-S35VN   Spartan Blades   Enyo Elite Gold Grade Neck                .                      .           --          -x   #                --+  150.00
 471   H1          Spyderco         ARK Neck                                  .                      .           :       -    x        # --   -      .   77.00
 553   12C27       Opinel           #8 Outdoor Folder(Combo Smooth)           .                      .           :          - x              -   #  -+   39.00
 784   ?           Chinese          Eagle Auto                                .                      .           :          - x         -          -#+   12.00
</pre>
Click to expand...
That's cool, thanks. I consider anything below 150 to be sharp. Anything above 300 is pretty dull, IMO.

I've found that a simple strop with a high-grit compound, like green oxide or 1 micron diamond, will often improve a factory edge a lot. For example, I recently tested a new Giant Mouse Riv at around 140, which is pretty sharp, but with a few strokes on the strop it came down to 115, which is very sharp indeed.
 
I don't expect my knives to show up razor sharp (it's probably a liability anyway) but sharp would be nice.
I recently purchased a new BM 940 and it was "factory sharpened" but not sharp. I will say the grinds were at least fairly symmetrical, but "sharp" would be generous. And it's the second 940 that's arrived that way.
Another thing besides the factory edge is the factory angle. BM states they sharpen to 30-35 inclusive, I believe.
Well, the new 940 was 40-41 inclusive, as was my previous 940. Not to beat up on BM but it's the most recent examples and fresh in my brain.

As far as Bess numbers, the knife above averaged just over 425 out of the box.
I don't need it to be "razor sharp" but under 250 would be nice, heck, under 300 would be acceptable.
400 is dull.

By contrast, another recent purchase, a Buck 110 Pro, still with factory edge tested at 190 (avg.) out of the box.
 
I highly agree with the OCD'ness of s factory sharp edge... Any knife whether $50 or $5000 should be sharp imo. How sharp it is just shows the quality control/effort put into the blade....
Does shit happen and a bad couple go out sure, but when it is repetitive with a maker it should be discussed.

My 2 complaints with dull edges go to Chaves Knives, and Benchmade knives... Ive bought three brand new chaves 228's in my life and every last one of them had trouble cutting paper without tearing... possibly me being an edge freak? absolutely possible, but for the price I expected more. On to Benchmades... as much as I love them for users (especially the griptillian), I expected more with my BNIB knives from them... I bought a 15601 Grizzly ridge to take hunting with me and well... It never even made it in my pack because the A) the bevel looked like a 2 year old sharpened it (recurved blade bla bla I know theyre not as easy but still) B) It was all I could do to get the thing to remotely cut through copy paper... Would just run right across it. Ive ran into similar issues with my griptillians, 940, and one of my 810 contegos...

Now this makes no true, dire issues for me really because I have the options and ability to sharpen any blade I want to any sharpness level I want... but it makes me curious as to how many people purchase these blades that do NOT have the means of sharpening them and are stuck with A) a dull edge, B) Sending it back to Manufacturer, C) Paying a third party to sharpen it for them.... It kind of lowers the number of stars on the review scale for me... but I understand mass produced blades cant have 100% symmetrical and perfect edge geometry from blade to blade unless done via CNC... Which can still be off with a fixturing mishap..

Anyways, my two cents on the subject.

Sharp edges to the front 🤜🤛
 
I have had 3 Buck folders and one fixed blade that all qualify as scary sharp out of the box, but I also had two small vantage knives that were dull and needed the bevel back off significantly. Once that was done they both sharpened up nicely, Buck does a good job with their 420hc and S30V.

On a side note I have purchased several used knives off the exchange, FB and Ebay that I'm convinced people sold because they became dull and they didn't know what to do or how to sharpen them.
 
Here are some measurements on Benchmade and a few other notable makes. I hope to get more measurements on Benchmade if the company ever ships to the local dealers.

Code: 
Sharpness measurements (BESS scores) on 96 blades using an Edge-On-Up PT50A.
The blades had previously cut nothing more than a piece of computer paper.
The column labeled Sharp is the average of 5 or more measurements.
The value of Sharp is also plotted as a hash/pound/number sign.
Individual measurements are plotted as dashes.

Sharp    Steel                            Model                   0.........100.......Sharpness Measurements in Grams.......500........600     Price
   .                                                 BENCHMADE    ________________________________________________________________________       . 
 155     CPM-S30V                      Volli @B (Combo Smooth)    .               - -#-- .           :            x                      .    182.75
 159     CPM-S30V                Bugout Blue @B (Combo Smooth)    .               - - #- -           :            x                      .    119.95
 161     CPM-S30V                               Follow-Up Neck    .               -  -#- -           :            x                      .    102.00
 176     M390                                      Barrage 581    .                 -  -#--          :            x                      .    182.00
 183     154CM                                          AFO II    .                   - #. -         :            x                      .    192.50
 184     154CM         Ball AXIS Flipper 300S-1 (Combo Smooth)    .                -   --#       -   :            x                      .    153.00
 187     154CM                                  Mini Reflex II    .                -   - #       -   :            x                      .    199.99
 190     M390                                      Nakamura @A    .                   - -#    -      :            x                      .    205.00
 194     M390                       Nakamura @B (Combo Smooth)    .                     --#  -       :            x                      .    195.50
 199     CPM-S30V                           Mini Bugout Orange    .                    - .#   --     :            x                      .    119.00
 205     CPM-S90V                                  Nakamura @C    .                   -  - #-    -   :            x                      .    256.00
 213     CPM-S30V                           Casbah 4400-1 Blue    .                      .--#  --    :            x                      .    165.75
 252     CPM-S30V                            Emissary 3.5 Blue    .                      .--     # - - -          x                      .    168.00
 290     Damasteel                            Emissary 470-131    .                      .  -      - #-        -  x                      .    350.00
   .                                                                                                                                             . 
   .                                                  BRADFORD    ________________________________________________________________________       . 
 132     M390                                  Guardian 3 Blue    .            -- #---   .           :            x                      .    169.95
 136     Elmax                                        G-Necker    .               -#-    .           :            x                      .     79.95
 159     CPM-3V                              Guardian 6 Orange    .                 --#- .           :            x                      .    229.00
   .                                                                                                                                             . 
   .                                                      CRKT    ________________________________________________________________________       . 
 135     AUS-8                               Nirk Tighe 2 Blue    .              --#  -  .           :            x                      .     82.95
 150     5Cr15MoV         Folts Minimalist Bowie Neck Black @B    .               - #- - .           :            x                      .     25.95
 165     5Cr15MoV         Folts Minimalist Bowie Neck Green @A    .                - -#- .-          :            x                      .     25.95
 184     8Cr13MoV                      Graphite (Combo Smooth)    .                   -- #   -       :            x                      .     79.99
 210     5Cr15MoV         Folts Minimalist Bowie Neck Black @B    .               - -    -- #        :            -                      .     25.95
 237     8Cr13MoV                                      Burnout    .                      --   -#     :      -     x                      .     69.95
 246     8Cr13MoV                        Fossil (Combo Smooth)    .                      .--    #--  :   -        x                      .     73.99
 359     8Cr13MoV                  Ryan Johnson RMJ Owlet Neck    .                      .    -      :       -#   ---                    .     22.95
   .                                                                                                                                             . 
   .                                                COLD STEEL    ________________________________________________________________________       . 
 129     AUS-8A                               Finn Wolf Orange    .            ---#      . -         :            x                      .     43.99
 145     AUS-8A                                  Tuff Lite Red    .                -#-   .           :            x                      .     27.99
 158     CPM-S35VN                    Black Talon II Hawksbill    .               -- #-  . -         :            x                      .     91.99
 170     CPM-S35VN                      Ultimate Hunter Orange    .                 -  # -           :            x                      .     90.61
 209     CPM-S35VN                                     Recon 1    .                      .- #--      :            x                      .     94.99
 243     8Cr13MoV                          Mini Tac Bowie Neck    .                    - .-- -  #    :            x  -                   .     17.95
   .                                                                                                                                             . 
   .                                                      ESEE    ________________________________________________________________________       . 
 169     CPM-S35VN                                    4 Orange    .                - --# .     -     :            x                      .    139.95
 174     CPM-S35VN                      Xancudo 3 Orange Black    .                  --#--           :            x                      .    129.95
 177     CPM-S35VN                              Izula-35V Neck    .                 --  #.--         :            x                      .     79.95
   .                                                                                                                                             . 
   .                                                    OPINEL    ________________________________________________________________________       . 
 553     12C27                 #8 Outdoor Folder(Combo Smooth)    .                      .           :          - x              -   #  -+     39.00
   .                                                                                                                                             . 
   .                                            SPARTAN BLADES    ________________________________________________________________________       . 
 359     AUS-8A              Enyo Bronze Line Field Grade Neck    .                      .   -    -  :       -#   x     -       -        .     88.00
 433     CPM-S35VN                  Enyo Elite Gold Grade Neck    .                      .           --          -x   #                --+    150.00
   .                                                                                                                                             . 
   .                                                  SPYDERCO    ________________________________________________________________________       . 
 128     CPM-SPY27                              Para 3 Blue @D    .              -#--    .           :            x                      .    140.00
 130     CTS-BD1N                                 Manix 2 Blue    .             - # -    .           :            x                      .    105.00
 148     CPM-S30V                                     Sliverax    .               - #--  .           :            x                      .    177.80
 148     CPM-S45VN                             Para 3 Black @C    .              -- #  - .           :            x                      .    147.00
 167     CPM-S110V                             Para 3 Black @B    .                  -#- -           :            x                      .    189.00
 471     H1                                           ARK Neck    .                      .           :       -    x        # --   -      .     77.00
 
crn3371 said:
Is a razor sharp edge always correct? My Buck 119 came with a coarse ground edge that didn’t impress me when I tested it with paper. I imagine that Buck is capable of putting a razor edge on their knives if they wanted to, was the coarse edge on the 119 done on purpose?
Click to expand...
Probably. Their fixed blades, anyway. They are intended as hunting knifes, to peel and butcher critters. You don't need a super fine polished edge for that. (some would even say: "That would be a detriment!")

Other than a 110 back in the 1970's, long, long before they improved the edge geometry with "Edge 2000", I've never had a Buck knife that was unusable with the factory edge. (during the final polishing, sometimes the pre Edge 2000 knives suffered a rounded edge that had to be sharpened before the knife was sharp. Re-profiling and thinning the edge in the old days was also quite helpful. Just taking the edge to 30° inclusive thinned the edge considerably. The cutting ability/performance of 30° inclusive was/is much better (and longer lasting) than the factory's 50° to 60° inclusive edge used at the time, as well. Edge 2000, brought the factory edge to 30° inclusive, and eliminated the convex edge used previously.)
 
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Wouldn’t bother me any if I could get a knife without a factory edge. Just grind the bevels and let m do the final sharpening. I’m going to put my own edge in it anyway. I might as well start new. This would also avoid me having to fix some pretty wonky factory bevels.
 
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