Failure to make fire in the snow

FoxholeAtheist

Basic Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
2,329
Hoppy gnu year, everyone!

So for christmas my wife and I went out to her grandparent's house, as we usually do. Since they have some actual plant life on their property, and I was there for 5 days, I decided to go out one day and try to light a fire.

The setting: Light wind, 5°F, snow about 10" deep. I was inside a double hedgerow of Caragana, and using wood from same as fuel.

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I was dressed in jeans, a t-shirt, leather gloves, winter coat, and boots. This is what I would probably be wearing if I were driving somewhere and not planning on going tromping through the snow.

First I built a small platform to keep the fire off the snow, shown here with the knives I was using; BRKT Bravo-1 and Mikro Canadian II.

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Then I fuzzed up some sticks and made a bit of a tipi:

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Then gathered some tinder from around the area:

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Keeping with the minimalist theme, I tried to light this fire with only the firesteel I carry on my B1 sheath, using the natural tinder. What I found was that it was a LOT harder to do this in these conditions than in the benign conditions I've had success with in the past. I was getting good sparks off the firesteel, and I can't count the times that I would get little flames that would burn themselves out in seconds.... but after trying for an hour, I never got a sustainable flame.

I've given this some thought in the past few days, and I think that the cold contributed to this in more than one way... for one thing, to get anything to burn, you have to raise its temperature enough, and when you're starting from 5°F, you have a longer way to go. In addition to that, although I tried to knock as much off as I could, I think there were probably still tiny ice/snow particles stuck to some of the strands of tinder. This wouldn't help anything burn.

After that hour of frustration, I tried making some shavings off of a piece of fatwood I carry in my bag, again to no avail. I then broke out a firestraw, which lit with a good flame on the first strike. After stuffing the tinder under the little tipi I had made and lighting it, though, the fire still didn't catch; the tinder burnt all the way without lighting any of the sticks for any length of time. By this time I was pretty damn cold, so I packed it in for the day and trudged across the field back to the house.. a luxury I wouldn't have had were this "for real."

Lessons Learned:

Negatives:
Well, the big lesson is that it's a lot harder to get a fire going in the bitter cold than it is on a warm dry day. (I know, pretty obvious.)

I should have gathered more tinder than I had (2x-3x as much? more?), and tried to pick stuff that didn't have snow on it, though that was not easy.

I should have included more smaller sticks in my fire tipi, and probably fuzzed more of the big ones.

Positives:
Although the fatwood didn't succeed, it did work better than the found tinder. If I had scraped more off, it could very well have worked.

Firestraws are DA BOMB, and will always have a place in my firekit. Lit quick, burned well.

The Bravo-1 was much easier to handle with cold, gloved hands than the Mikro-II or PS-II I also tried. The large, contoured handle always felt secure.

Brightly colored lanyards are good things. Why? I intentionally dropped my knife in the snow... Can you see it?
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Here's a closeup:
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If the snow was more disturbed where I dropped the knife, it would have just disappeared, and I would have had to go digging for it. As you can see, the safety orange paracord stayed on top of the snow, making finding the knife a snap.

So there you have it. If you haven't gone out in less-than-perfect weather to try to build a fire, I highly recommend it. It's an eye-opener. :thumbup:
 
Nice report! I love the "dropped" knife pic!! I had the same problem last week, though not as cold, it was damp which I think kept my tinder from staying lit.
 
Good post and exit comments. Right now I tend to favor the coglan's firesticks. I agree that PJC is excellent and works great. The coglan stick will also work as kindling and give a good flame for a couple of minutes to get hard to start kindling going. In thinking about it, you could have shaves some fat curls off your fatwood and fed that to the firestraw flame and then maybe baton a larger section of the fatwood to get your stubborn fuel going.

I always like these retrospective posts!
 
Fire steels are fun to play with and I always carry one. However it is for only in the event that I have nothing better to use to start a fire and it would never be the only source that I carried. As you found, they work pretty well in ideal conditions and not very well in extreme conditions. That said, you were very wise to test your methods before a real emergency comes along.
 
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Excellent report.

Knowing how your tools work in varied conditions is paramount.

I always attempt to start a fire with my Firesteel set-up and natural tinder, but will resort to using the easier starting methods that I carry in my kit if need be.

Prepping your tinder and gathering/making plenty of easily burned material is the key to getting a fire going; especially in adverse conditions.

I’m lucky enough to have plenty of Birch and Cedar bark, and Pine and Hemlock twigs in my area; with those resources a fire is usually possible.

Don’t fret, and keep honing your skills.




"If you're not living on the edge, …you're taking up too much space."

Big Mike
 
Since I really have to be able to start a fire, I carry four kinds of matches, a Bic, a Zippo with extra Fluid, Vaseline saturated cotton balls, some cardboard, and a nasal spry bottle of alcohol. I also have some tipped fire sticks and a few other small tinder items. I carry it in a empty Gator aid powdered drink mix plastic jar which is water proof. I can put it in my pack, put it on my belt or carry it on a shoulder strap. Everything (including a knife) comes second to staring a fire. There is a Vic Pocket Pal in the jar too. In a pinch, the jar works great for water as well.
 
Fox hole I have a ? for you did you just strike your fire steel once? I am sure you did serveral but what I mean is try this again but this time strike your fires steel sevearal times real fast and when i mean strike it I am meaning scrape it fast and a few times to see what happines I do this with birch bark and with dreid grass to. some times when you concetrat your sparks and I mean a bunch of them it will get the dried grasses to light. also your grasses my have been just a tad damp to. just a thought for you. I do with golden rod dried flower heads I will scrape my firesteel real fast with my knife and get a bunch of hot sparks going into the flower head and then it usally lights up. one thing about this is that is really wares down the firest faster. but if it was for real ( survival sitution ) who cares. I have one firesteel that I have started over 300 fires with even thought it says on the packet that came with it that you should be able to get 7000 light from it it looks of my fire steel it looks like i have around 4000 lights on it already. LOL

just thought for you,

Bryan
 
Thanks for the replies,

If I had been really needing to start a fire, I would have gone for the Bic in my bag and combined it with the small tin of birch bark I carry, but I wanted to give the Firesteel a workout.

Bryan,

I didn't try the multiple-fast strike method... I found that when I scraped it quickly, I got smaller sparks than a nice slow scrape. Mostly I found myself speeding up when I started to get frustrated, after which I had to force myself to slow down. :foot:

Big Mike,

I saw your pics of lighting fires in the snow and was impressed. I'm also somewhat jealous of your Rogue, although I think a CanCamp is probably what I'm going to go after. I'll keep working on my skills, and make sure I have my trusty bright orange Bic with me in the meantime. :D
 
I share your thoughts on the bright colored Lanyards. They have saved equipment for me several times.
 
God job giving it a shot!

I have found that the firesteels work best with very fine tinder: cotton, jute, cattails, thistle down, dryer lint, scraped bark (sawdust). Someone else said they preferred misch rods because those sparks light better. I'm not sure.

Also, I've taken to holding my tinder bundle in my hand to light it, and then placing it down and adding kindling. I usually start with just a few twigs/splinters and add more slowly, slowly, slowly.

I had a similar experience up in the mountains--disheartening! Keep practicing and always carry a Bic. :D
 
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It's hard to tell from your picture, but I think Rotte is right. To me, it looks like your tinder is too coarse.

Grass can be good tinder, in fact, I use fine grass for tinder bundles for friction fire, but if the grass is too coarse, I can't blow it into flames.

Doc
 
here is a tip that i picked up from Survivorman
Carry a tinderbag, and every time you see some nice tinder throw some in the bag, then when the time comes to make a fire at least you will have sufficient dry tinder.
Just a thought.
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I've experienced similar problems during the winter. The solution was more kindling, gradually increasing in size. The bigger pieces especially need a lot of preheating before they'll start to burn and using the amount of tinder/kindling that works fine in the summer doesn't cut it in worse conditions.
 
When it's too cold to be "wet," I always keep an eye out for dried Foxtail poking up out of the snow and collect it, stuff it in my shirt pocket while prep'ing the rest of the fire. When it's cold enough, the moisture in the otherwise "dried" vegetaion feezes and fools you into thinking it's actually dry. The second it gets some heat - the moisture melts and it's wet enough that it won't keep burning. I spend about a half hour making everything as fool-proof as possible and usually am successful more quickly than I expect, but when I am not, I won't go in until I have a real fire. Not always pleasant but rewarding.

I figured out this week that I am not adept enough with my left hand to "run" a BIC lighter in adverse conditions but could still use my flint and steel.

Regardless of what tinder you carry, some char cloth is the berries, whether your spark comes from a "proper" steel, ferro rod or sparking wheel on a lighter. It catches the weakest of sparks and thrives in windy conditions. Shoved into a ball of dried grass with the Foxtail or other REALLY dry tinder in the center, it glows hot and heavy and works when an actual flame from a cotton ball, or similar, won't.

Great review!:thumbup: Learning from others' experiences and confirming some of our own observations with others' is great. As much as I dislike large handles on knives, your point about gloves is VERY valid. I gripe all the time about otherwise fantastic flashlights that you can't operate with gloves on - and I have to use gloves a good part of the year. My one knife that is especially easy to use with a glove (or gauze mitten:o) is my Mora Clipper.

Thanks for taking the time to take the pics you posted with your review. It takes some patience to stop to do that while being frustrated and COLD.
 
.....
Negatives:
.....
I should have gathered more tinder than I had (2x-3x as much? more?), and tried to pick stuff that didn't have snow on it, though that was not easy.

I should have included more smaller sticks in my fire tipi, and probably fuzzed more of the big ones.

It's always a good idea to gather lots of kindling in a variety of grades before you light the tinder.
Gradesofkindling1.jpg


It looks like the top of the branches in the first pic are small/fine enough to make a good first layer of kindling.

I generally like to have lots of kindling immediately above the firestarter. That way the flame from the firestarter makes direct contact with the first layer of kindling. IMO, if the kindling is sitting too far above the firestarter, too much heat can be lost before contact with the kindling.

In the firelay I use, the firestarter is positioned between the two layers of kindling (the stick floor and the main bundle). Progressively heavier kindling then gets stacked on top of the first couple of layers pictured.
Firelay.jpg


I have been using this method for over 30 years and it has never failed to start a good fire, regardless of how wet the wood is.


Hope this helps.


Kind regards
Mick
 
Great info everyone.

I take it with my experience today as well and a lot of it parallels what I found today.
 
Just a suggestion, but when I am making a fire w/ lousy fixin's, I make it about the size of a teacup. That tiny fire is easy on fuel, and easy to keep going. Once it is going strong, add larger fuel, maybe the thickness of pencils. Keep working your way up in stages. There have been days where I have had a fire going for 10 minutes or more before it could have gotten your initial lay burning.

Also, I don't know what you are doing, but blowing on it right will help a marginal lay burn right. It is easier to blow on it when it is small and controlled also.

The only time my fires start larger than a hat is when I have a lot of really dry fuel. Usually the stuff I am out in is damp and cold, so requires you to baby it.
 
Mike Spinak's site has a lot of good info on using a firesteel http://www.mikespinak.com/articles/Essays/e994firesteelhowto.html
The biggest challenge for me is being patient enough to prepare the materials prior to attempting to start the fire, not so easy when it is cold.
I have a scrap of leather I place dry grass in and rub - this buffs the grass into small pieces and warms up my hands at the same time. I leave the tender on the leather and start it there and use it to transfer to a 'nest' for the next stage.
 
THIS is the kind of post that made me join this forum to begin with. We can all make fire with dry tinder & wood with no wind. It's also fairly easy with pre-packaged kit items handy. Making fire with numb fingers and minimal tools is not only much harder, but of course when we'd need success the most.

What are the tips from you more experienced guys on making a fire in driving rain? Do you make a small debris hut and build your fire in there, letting it be consumed when your fire is hot enough? How do you guys do it?
 
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