Farewell Zt0200

nwmetalbug said:
LOL yeah I get all my known facts from youtube.

I think there are hundreds(thousands) of knife makers that will think Walker or whoever that is full of himself
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Wait! . . . WHAT????

precisionshootist said:
. . . when the inventor of the design says the lock angles must be perfect or the lock will not be reliable that should tell you something.
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Thank you. That was a very kind way of putting that. :rolleyes:

I've always found it best to gather my facts before I :foot: . And if Michael Walker feels like he wants to be full of himself, he certainly has my permission to do so along with the undying gratitude of the entire knifemaking industry.
 
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I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying he doesn't know what he's talking about or are you saying we should listen to him as he invented the liner lock? I think he is correct and he also goes on to state their is no set angle and that it varies with every knife. He essentially states this only truly works if hand fitted by a skilled builder. That is why I think there are so many examples where a light tap on the palm folds the blade. Anyway I'm done here. I did not intend for this to be controversial. I would love to see an 0200 with an an axis lock etc.
 
Michael Walker invented the liner lock and put it in the public domain. Chris Reeve modified it to create the framelock and put that in the public domain. Every liner lock and framelock ever made is based directly or indirectly on Michael's design. Michael and Chris aren't just great knifemakers and designers . . . they're industry heroes. Nuff said.
 
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Kyle Very Steeg took the 0200 on a trip through the flipping AMAZON and beat the ever living snot out of it without the slightest hiccup. There was extensive article in Blade detailing the adventure. IIRC, he traded it to someone there for services.

I'll take the word of an actual adventurer and knife user on a real adventure over any back yard survivalist youtuber.
 
5e9a08f6f6fa11e2bb5822000a9e060e_7.jpg


My old 0200, pimped by Rival. Woefully impractical, but oh so cool.
 
Interesting thread, I never had the 200, but I had the G10 Tyrade with the same thick liner. I Spine whacked it on a book and it didn't close, that was enough for me. I saw this quote, and I've seen others before claiming the same, but how can this be when liner locks show up on old slipjoints that pre-date Walker's supposed invention? I have an old hawkbill carpet/linoleum knife by Klein Tools, with a liner lock, this knife has to be at least 50 years old.

"Every liner lock and framelock ever made is based directly or indirectly on Michael's design."

Edit, wikipedia is very careful to state "Michael Walker's Linerlock". So he perfected the design I guess.
 
precisionshootist said:
I think/hope it's being discontinued for the purpose of redesigning the knife with a suitable lock that is up the task. I love the feel and design of this knife but its well documented the liner lock is not up to the task.
This has kept me from purchasing the knife. If they remake it with a lock as strong and secure as the rest of the knife I will jump on it. So I take this as a good sign manufacturers are realizing liner and frame locks are not suitable for heavy duty use.
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Out of curiosity, what lock mechanism would you recommend that is that much better?
 
I'm sure Thomas would happily address your assumptions on the Official Subforum (Google).
 
wobly said:
Out of curiosity, what lock mechanism would you recommend that is that much better?
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Well that is the rub. Other lock types that are significantly stronger are proprietary so they can't use them. Walker licensed his design to other manufacturers so I think that's the main reason we see so many examples. It's not so easy for a company like ZT to come up with a unique proprietary lock and the other well known ones are unlikely to license their designs. And no Cold Steel is not the only brand I like. I carry Spyderco as my primary all the time. I just think the TriAd is by far the strongest design currently available
 
I could cylinder whack a revolver and get it to fail but that doesn't mean its a inferior design. How about using a tool as it is intended and forget the unrealistic beat till it fails crap.;)

ZTcomboclip.jpg
 
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I'm sure many have seen this before, it's a hard-use/abuse test of a ZT550 (framelock)
[video=youtube;AW0TVkcBFkw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW0TVkcBFkw[/video]

And here are a couple of an Emerson Commander being abused (linerlock)
[video=youtube;vr-Rnk7S4rs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr-Rnk7S4rs[/video]

[video=youtube;sZmMx2zouxo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZmMx2zouxo[/video]
 
The first Video proves my point. I will point out a couple things. The very first strike on the ZT550 folds the blade. It held on subsequent strikes but you don't get to reattach your fingers if this were actual use. The tester also states he is going to hold the frame lock closed and that the lock bar simply pushed his finger away and folded the blade. This first strike likely opened up the lock a little more so the next time it locked up a little later than before and held. At 21:21 you will notice how exceptionally late this particular knife locks up, which actually gives it a great advantage in this type of test. This knife locks so late it is about to slide off the back side of the tang. Now take another example with early lock up and the knife would likely fail every time or most of the time. This has been my experience in real use with various high quality liners also, although not with this particular knife. If you snap the blade open hard and the lock binds tightly with the tang it may hold quite well, however open the blade gently or quietly and the lock may just slide right off the tang if subjected to hard impact. Also any hard impact in most cases immediately starts affecting the lock up as only a very very small fraction of material contacts the blade tang and lock face is easily deformed causing later lock up and worse lock rock.

Here is another example, comparing a ZT 0200, SOG Vulcan and a Cold Steel Recon 1. The 0200 fails miserably even though the quality of manufacture is as high or higher than the other two knives as well as being the most expensive of the three.
I was not going to post links to vids but since we got started why not. This video is just one among many others. This video shows very light over strikes and moderate spine whacks. If you want to see more there are plenty more examples.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tguk41XL7Kc
 
Sorry, but that is one of the dumbest hard use tests I've ever seen. (Not to mention there is a difference between pressure and impact, but that reviewer is too stupid to understand it). I can think of no hard use scenario where I would use a folding knife in a manner where those tests would be applicable.

If you don't like the lock in the 0200 that is fine, you are perfectly entitled and since this thread is about the discontinuation of the 0200 it is appropriate. If you want to bash the lock in general, go ahead and start another pointless thread of your own on that subject so that everyone can argue ad nauseum about how important and useful/stupid and pointless spine whacks and over strikes are.

As I mentioned before there are well over 10,000 0200's out there and a statistically insignificant number of complaints about lock failures. That means there are a hell of a lot of happy users that utilize the knife as the designer intended.

You could also join a forum where Kai has official representation and ask them your questions directly.
 
kneedeep said:
Sorry, but that is one of the dumbest hard use tests I've ever seen. (Not to mention there is a difference between pressure and impact, but that reviewer is too stupid to understand it). I can think of no hard use scenario where I would use a folding knife in a manner where those tests would be applicable.

If you don't like the lock in the 0200 that is fine, you are perfectly entitled and since this thread is about the discontinuation of the 0200 it is appropriate. If you want to bash the lock in general, go ahead and start another pointless thread of your own on that subject so that everyone can argue ad nauseum about how important and useful/stupid and pointless spine whacks and over strikes are.

As I mentioned before there are well over 10,000 0200's out there and a statistically insignificant number of complaints about lock failures. That means there are a hell of a lot of happy users that utilize the knife as the designer intended.

You could also join a forum where Kai has official representation and ask them your questions directly.
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I was responding to the video posted by another user. And while I may have caused some thread drift here the discussion started about the topic of the discontinuation of the 0200 when I made the comment that I hope it comes back only with a new lock and that the lock is the weak point of this otherwise fantastic blade. I think most were enjoying this discussion so you can be done if you like but others may have some other insight to share. As I have said I held off on this knife because of the amount of reported lock failures and I tend to do my homework. I posted a link to another less extreme test video and just a few minutes of searching will yield more. You may think tests like this are dumb but I feel they are very valid. Even more so when you look at many different users and knives as they run tests like these. The whole point of a hard use folder is that they may be subjected to forces that could not be withstood by normal knives. If you are just slicing an apple, what's the point. This is a war knife when it comes down to it and although you may not repeatedly whack the spine of the blade you may very well subject the knife to those forces or possibly even much greater. At that point in time it's nice to know the knife could handle it.
 
Maybe you were spine whacked over the head a few too many times if you think those are valid tests. 0200 is discoed, it wasn't because of the lock, it isn't coming back with a new lock, you should probably just go buy a CS "war" rated triad lock model anyway. I'm sure you'll be more happy with it.

Never had a lick of trouble with the 0200 I owned. Might just go buy another.
 
kneedeep said:
Sorry, but that is one of the dumbest hard use tests I've ever seen. (Not to mention there is a difference between pressure and impact, but that reviewer is too stupid to understand it). I can think of no hard use scenario where I would use a folding knife in a manner where those tests would be applicable.

If you don't like the lock in the 0200 that is fine, you are perfectly entitled and since this thread is about the discontinuation of the 0200 it is appropriate. If you want to bash the lock in general, go ahead and start another pointless thread of your own on that subject so that everyone can argue ad nauseum about how important and useful/stupid and pointless spine whacks and over strikes are.

As I mentioned before there are well over 10,000 0200's out there and a statistically insignificant number of complaints about lock failures. That means there are a hell of a lot of happy users that utilize the knife as the designer intended.

You could also join a forum where Kai has official representation and ask them your questions directly.
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^^^^
+1

This is one of the more intelligent posts, that I've read in this discussion.

FWIW- Those tests that were performed in the video, are completely, ridiculously, stupid!!!

Please stay on topic, precisionshooter.

And yes, I'm very biased: it was the ZT 0200 Military Folder, that got me hooked on this crazy knife addiction obsession.
 
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High impact knife tests are beyond illogical. Never (NEVER!!!) would a knife, even in martial applications, be subject to that stress.

If you want to talk "war application" learn how to do some knife spine joint locks/ traps...I personally will take a 0200 all day in that application.
 
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