Fear of Customs? thread in General

[Lorien]

2. I find it vexing the amount of pre-concieved resistance that many in our own membership have towards knives outside of the direct realm that they are interested in at that immediate moment....acceptance of other types and styles seems to come with time AND positive exposure....that is the best I can come up with, currently.

Here is a feather in the cap of production knives; you can experience the 'custom design' for yourself before buying a more expensive handmade example.
Maybe some people don't take the 'custom' plunge simply because there is always another, cooler design. It could be confusing, all this variety.

Often with production knives, the design may look good, while the knife itself is underwhelming. This may lead people to thinking that design is the most important factor, especially if they haven't had an opportunity to experience the design in a higher quality format. Design is only one facet of what makes a knife good, or not.

Of course, it is much more economical to expose yourself to numerous designs by first purchasing the production versions using custom designs.

 

[J_Curd]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would appreciate it if you stopped affecting that ghetto-inspired argot in your posts. The language is not appropriate to a general-category thread, either.

You can speak for me on this one. :thumbup:

 

[mohd]

1. Cost….why pay thousands when you can get great quality for a hundred or less?

2. Wait time…..instant gratification rules…..it could take years.

3. How do I know that I am making a smart purchasing decision?

4. The variety of production knives make choosing any one custom less than appealing.

Since I am not rich so most of my purchases are base on my liking and my affordability. That's all.

Some knives are so beautiful made by good maker and there are high priced (i.e. to me personally). And I couldn't afford to grab them so I just forget about them. The most I can do is to keep pictures of those knives in my picture folder

Sometimes I managed to convince the maker/seller for a payments plan and this of course increased my affordability level. That's the only way I could own high priced knives so far

Sometimes I purchase a cheapo just because somehow I like that particular piece for some unknown reason which I couldn't understand myself Who care?

Long waiting time is OK with me if I think I could tolerate it. I could patiently stay waiting for quite long time. It is part of self honour to respectly giving time to those makers in finishing their work of arts. And I guess those makers also have their own respect to their own words in regards to the promised waiting time

Mostly I bought custom knives. Anyhow I also bought couples of production knives. My preference is always on custom knives. And I am proud to have knives that I can relate them with each individual maker personally. Maybe I am not that smart

Mohd.

 

[nifegrinder]

This is an excellent thread on an important issue.
STeven, forgive me if I've misread your intent. I think you're point is not just about educating the world on the joys of owning a custom knife; making them see our point. It is important for custom makers to try and diminish the negatives.

In many ways custom and production can't compete with each other.
Production's great strength is that a mass produced knife can be chosen, ordered and shipped in a matter of minutes for very reasonable prices.
A custom knifemaker can take the knife you picture in your head and put it in your hand . . . eventually . . . if you can afford it.

Custom makers can produce purely unique designs from exotic, often tempermental materials with flawless quality. But don't get complacent, there are a few production knife companies that are working hard to meet customer desires for customization, exotic materials and better quality control.

Custom work is an opportunity to collaborate with talented artisans/craftspeople, but this is basically good PR, and production companies can (to some extent) hire that capacity.

Custom makers should take a hard cold look at their processes and manufacturing expertise. Improving turn around time on an order, and lowering costs; a custom maker can vastly diminish the appeal of mass produced knives.

Do what your competition can not do, and then do what they can do better than they do it.

 

[Kohai999]

This is an excellent thread on an important issue.
STeven, forgive me if I've misread your intent. I think you're point is not just about educating the world on the joys of owning a custom knife; making them see our point. It is important for custom makers to try and diminish the negatives.

In many ways custom and production can't compete with each other.
Production's great strength is that a mass produced knife can be chosen, ordered and shipped in a matter of minutes for very reasonable prices.
A custom knifemaker can take the knife you picture in your head and put it in your hand . . . eventually . . . if you can afford it.


Custom makers should take a hard cold look at their processes and manufacturing expertise. Improving turn around time on an order, and lowering costs; a custom maker can vastly diminish the appeal of mass produced knives.

Do what your competition can not do, and then do what they can do better than they do it.

Well said my friend!

The point is NOT to MAKE those that are not interested in customs to see our point, it is to hopefully CREATE opportunity for them to discover the joys and benefits on their own.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[rick melear]

family, religion or pursuit of pleasure did not get in the way of ensuring a more-than-adequate income.

Hope the income has brought them contentment.

 

[Kohai999]

family, religion or pursuit of pleasure did not get in the way of ensuring a more-than-adequate income.

Hope the income has brought them contentment.

They kept their eye on the brass ring....you can be sure that it has brought them AND their families, churches and bowling leagues/mistress-of-choice(insert humorous here) contentment.

For some, these things are a reason to NOT pursue financial gain, for others it is the SOLE reason to pursue financial gain.....unless you win the lottery, getting rich does not generally JUST happen.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Keith Montgomery]

I used to be one of the people that thought that wasn't the least bit interested in custom knives. They didn't do anything my Bucks couldn't do and they cost more. It was books and magazines that finally got me interested in custom knives, but it was a long time before I finally took the plunge. The reason for not getting into it sooner was mainly the cost. It took finding this forum to finally get me over the hump.

 

[Dino in Reno]

"3. How do I know that I am making a smart purchasing decision?"

3a. Do you like it?
3b. Will it do what you want?
3c. Can you afford it?

If all are yes, get it, it's a smart purchasing decision.

I have a hammered on MB truck leaf spring blade and a wootz type steel from scratch custom.
Both meet the three rules
Different prices though
For investment advice ask elsewhere, I bought Betamax when home video was new...

Dino in Reno

 

[pommel]

I will buy custom knives if I can afford them.

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

I must interject something that nobody has touched on here. I have a lifelong passion for knives- always have, always will. My knife world blew up in high school when I found TK magazine's #1 issue (wish I still had the firsts), and called the local Wholesale Sports to see if they had a Beck Tracker. That was how I found out about customs- the $555 for the knife was a world away from me with my mom running a farm on $400/ month. Then years and many knives later I found this site (the only knife site I visit). Before too long I found out the customs for sale. Bought 2 very nice looking small custom fixed blades- one for my (now) wife in MOP w. stingray sheath, and a Mammoth Ivory for me. Both came VERY VERY dull, and filework not cleaned up and quite sloppy. As I am up here I did not want to send them back, so I noted what the maker sold me, and decided his flavor was not for me. Then I had to sharpen them (it isn't a knife if it can't cut in my books)- which totally ruined the finish as I had to take the bevels very far up the blade to make it serviceable. As I don't do mirror finish that is how they sit to this day- functional but not what I wanted.

Later in WSS there were a series of knives made for that forum. NWA's knife came perfect to me- sharp, well made, great sheath and a great guy to deal with. The other maker was the exact opposite. When my knives came they had horrid grind lines, the stamp had been ground off, there were gaps in the scale:tang junction, pins stuck up through the handle, the sheath was quickly thrown together......... Best part is the guy ripped me off for 2 blanks that I paid for, and refuses to get in contact with me despite calls, emails, and letters.

So in the end of my first 8 custom knives bought, IMO only two (I bought a NWA blank as well) were what it should be. Now I am a knife passionate so of course I understand that scumbags exist, and that some makers are more concerned about how a knife looks than anything else.

Look at this from another persons perspective. I just get into knives, and get screwed by one maker and have poor product from another. Why wouldn't I go back to production, where I can return the product if it is not worth my money, hassle free, and get another right away. I can only assume that many people have been scared away from customs by transactions such as this, or by stories like this; because of the actions of a few (Corkum, Blade....)

Just thought I'd throw that out.

(can't wait for my Scott Ickes bowie to come soon though- come on customs!)

Kris

 

[Kohai999]

So in the end of my first 8 custom knives bought, IMO only two (I bought a NWA blank as well) were what it should be. Now I am a knife passionate so of course I understand that scumbags exist, and that some makers are more concerned about how a knife looks than anything else.

Look at this from another persons perspective. I just get into knives, and get screwed by one maker and have poor product from another. Why wouldn't I go back to production, where I can return the product if it is not worth my money, hassle free, and get another right away. I can only assume that many people have been scared away from customs by transactions such as this, or by stories like this; because of the actions of a few (Corkum, Blade....)

Just thought I'd throw that out.

(can't wait for my Scott Ickes bowie to come soon though- come on customs!)

Kris

I do see your point.

All I can say is that there are a number of production facilities that I have dealt with over the years that either have unscrupulous management or "lax" warranty policies....and businesses that go out of business....GT Knives, Roundeye Knife and Tool, Benchmark, Schrade, Camillus......the list goes on.....and this is just in the last decade, more or less.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

I agree, but to the less serious about knives there are more choices in production, and a greater chance that a crappy company may be talked into help if you talk to enough people somewhere in the company.

I am not a good maker (yet), nor am I fast but I try my best to show people the intricacies, details and variety that can be had in a custom (often by showing a couple of magazines), as well as just informing people that customs do in fact exist- which is another issue altogether.

 

[SVRIDER1]

Kris

I can see why experiences like that would send you back to productions. Have you looked into other custom makers since? Recently I have found a few makers that are VERY REASONABLE price wise and they are great to deal with. After I bought my first custom I thought that the rest I purchased would be in the 500+ range but that hasn't been the case at all. I am always nervous about carrying my first but the rest I use all the time.

John

My bad, I didn't read your last post and realize you are maker also. Do you have a website or some pics

 

[T.K.C.]

One of the the reasons that CKCA & forums like this ARE very important, because we all get to see the good makers & the dishonest makers. That is important. I (we) learn from each others experiences, and can ask questions regarding a knife or about the experience one hand with a knife maker. This all will in turn HELP the good makers thrive, and help each of have more good experiences with knife makers, and less bad. I have personally only have had good experiences with my custom knife life.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

I am very lucky to have never had a really bad experience with a maker. I have had things happen that might turn someone new off customs though. Some makers are terrible at getting even close to estimated delivery times, and some get a little testy if you happen to bring up a problem that you have with a knife you bought from them. It's probably a good thing that I didn't have those things happen to me during my first few orders, or I may have decided that custom knives weren't worth the hassle.

 

[midnight flyer]

I think it is very easy to see both sides of this discussion. As a service provider, my reputation and experience of my clients help me generate repeat business and sales of my services. I have my own company and have provided repair/remodel services full time for many years.

BUT - my clients can see one another's work. They can talk to my previous client's about the quality of product I turn out as far as cabinets, finsihes and overall repairs are concerned. In fact, most of my clients will gladly let another go see their house if it is a larger remodel.

But when you buy a knife, how many knife makers do you actually get to interview, talk to personally, and then see and hold multiple examples of their work? How can you be sure that what you actually get is what you want, satisfying your vision? Local production would be a distinct asset there if someone could see multiple examples of your work. I think many knife owners look at the customs and drool, but on the other hand feel that several hundred dollars is way to much to be mailing off to someone that will "do their best" to get your knife out in a year or two. If things go well... And by the way, don't let the fact that he lives a few thousand miles away throw you off - RIGHT NOW, he has a good rep.

And I don't know how comfortable I would be buying a knife from someone that was a garage technician. - REMEMBER - professional woodworker here - not poking at the knifemakers - When I started making cabinets in '78, I actually did start making them in a garage. I found there were two types of non-fulltime craftspersons. One did enough to get by, and was simply doing it to add to their income. The other, sat and fiddled with every detail, spending way to much time on the project to get everything as perfect as possible.

If you got a knife from the second guy, you would have a home run, a knife that would probably last a couple of lifetimes. With the first guy, you pay your money and take your chances. And how do you resolve a dispute with someone that is 2000 miles away?

Explain yourself on a forum such as this, and if the guy has his own fan base (that doesn't know yet that the maker is a significantly better knifemaker than businessman!) and you will get shit hammered. I have seen it here. It is like watching someone that was robbed have to explain why it wasn't really their fault someone stuck a gun in their ribs. If someone does post a negative missive here, they cannot be the first.

Being self employed as long as I have been in my life, I understand that not every day is my best day, I don't handle every situation well, and sometimes I just screw up. Everyone is that way. But correcting errors over long distances can be time horribly time consuming.

And in the end, what if the product doesn't meet the original buyer's expectations? What if the bar was too high? What if the expectations were unrealistic, or simply a misunderstanding of the product was to be? Worse, what if it is that "undefinable" quality that is inherent in knives: "it didn't feel right in my hand" or "the steel doesn't hold its edge like I thought".

With a mass produced knife, you return it and you are through. Even the expensive knives are that way. Few knifemakers will take back a knife you custom ordered and returned, giving your money back at the end. (BTW - I don't blame them! I don't give back money on a custom cabinet either!)

On the other hand, perusing this forum has been a real eye opener. I had not idea semi custom knives made to top specs could be had a such great prices. Great designs, great materials, etc.; I have no idea how some of the knife makers here turn out such fine products at such low costs. I have my eye on one maker here that seems to be a pretty straight up guy that sells a great product at a very fair price. I am hoping that my money and his knife availability align at the same time of his next offering.

Again, as a fellow craftsperson.... $200 bucks for a custom knife with a sheath? You can't get anyone that works for me or with me to a job for that...

As always, YMMV. Just my 0.02.

Robert

 

[hushnel]

I have almost as many customs, ah maybe more than factory knives. None of mine are made by famous knife makers though I think Edgar Chattin is known by knife makers and I’ve got three of his. I never bought a custom knife at a knife show, I’ve bought all of mine at various rendezvous and meet the maker and handled the knife before I bought them. Most of these guys have become my friends. I used to and occasionally still make a knife but these guys are so much better than I that if I have to make a knife now I get the blade from one of them, I personally call these built knives rather than made, ‘cause I didn’t make the blade.

I surely understand the big factory warranty and support and another great aspect of a factory knife is that if you lose it and really love the knife you can replace it, not so easy with a custom. All of my folders are factory.

I have plain tastes and don't really go for the very fancy stuff. I like a knife that looks like it was made to be used, some are just too pretty, I know they are considered to be hard working tools just made to look good but they’re just not my style.

I like to support these guys when I can, they’re knives are superior to factory knives most of the time. These knifes I have bought over the years when compared to a Ka-Bar USMC could be considered expensive though rarely costing twice the price. This knife was made by Tony Bell, he is a good buddy of Edgar’s and makes knives in a similar way. Without a doubt it is my favorite knife, it is a hard using extremely sharp piece of steel that I expect to use all my life. I gave Tony his asking price of $45.00 about 4 years ago for it. The last one I bought from Tony was $125.00.

It's the one in the middle, the one at the top is the new one I bought last month the small round knife I had Tony make for me about 3 years ago, again for $45.00.

Except for the new Bark River and the old Ka-Bar these are all custom. I made a few and built a few. I have a few more but I've taken enough pictures for one day

Custom knife Slideshow

 

[Kohai999]

I think it is very easy to see both sides of this discussion. As a service provider, my reputation and experience of my clients help me generate repeat business and sales of my services. I have my own company and have provided repair/remodel services full time for many years.

BUT - my clients can see one another's work. They can talk to my previous client's about the quality of product I turn out as far as cabinets, finsihes and overall repairs are concerned. In fact, most of my clients will gladly let another go see their house if it is a larger remodel.

But when you buy a knife, how many knife makers do you actually get to interview, talk to personally, and then see and hold multiple examples of their work?
There are regional shows in just about every part of the country for a viable experience with many, many good quality custom knifemakers.
ow can you be sure that what you actually get is what you want, satisfying your vision? Local production would be a distinct asset there if someone could see multiple examples of your work. I think many knife owners look at the customs and drool, but on the other hand feel that several hundred dollars is way to much to be mailing off to someone that will "do their best" to get your knife out in a year or two. If things go well... And by the way, don't let the fact that he lives a few thousand miles away throw you off - RIGHT NOW, he has a good rep.

Explain yourself on a forum such as this, and if the guy has his own fan base (that doesn't know yet that the maker is a significantly better knifemaker than businessman!) and you will get shit hammered. I have seen it here. It is like watching someone that was robbed have to explain why it wasn't really their fault someone stuck a gun in their ribs. If someone does post a negative missive here, they cannot be the first.

[COLOR="Blue"]It does take a slightly thick skin to criticize a maker in the Forums....but it should. However....if you have been screwed over...there is little flaming....observe the post on Tim Herman, who has quite a fanbase over the years.[/COLOR]

Again, as a fellow craftsperson.... $200 bucks for a custom knife with a sheath? You can't get anyone that works for me or with me to a job for that...

Very, very true.....

As always, YMMV. Just my 0.02.

Robert

Thanks for your input, and welcome to BladeForums.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[tom mayo]

Actually, most of the makers I know, including myself, have a complete satisfaction, no questions asked return policy........

Kinda like Costco!!!!!