Fear of Customs? thread in General

Kris

I can see why experiences like that would send you back to productions. Have you looked into other custom makers since? Recently I have found a few makers that are VERY REASONABLE price wise and they are great to deal with. After I bought my first custom I thought that the rest I purchased would be in the 500+ range but that hasn't been the case at all. I am always nervous about carrying my first but the rest I use all the time.

John

My bad, I didn't read your last post and realize you are maker also. Do you have a website or some pics

No website but here are threads I started:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=561764
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=570968 (like I said I'm not the best- these were made before I could really stand much after breaking my legs- still recovering).

I have not given up on customs because, well, I'm addicted (although I have to cut way down on my purchases), and if I want people to eventually purchase my knives I have to understand both the maker and customers take on these issues.
 
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Nice looking knives, the file work looks great!
That was pretty cool to mark the event with your own custom work. As a knife guy I could just imagine how it must have felt to have been handed one of those as a groomsman.

On another note is it my own twisted mind that has a stronger personal connection with a knife I got a bite from or has anybody else also experienced this? I mean I have at least three that I won't get rid of for that reason alone! lol
 
Actually, most of the makers I know, including myself, have a complete satisfaction, no questions asked return policy........

Kinda like Costco!!!!! :D

LMAO! I believe you! There are certainly a lot of fine makers here, with their integrity being an important part of the knife itself.

But remember, this venue is a tiny portion of the knife and edged tool community. In smaller towns around my city, we have a ton of knife makers. Some great, their work jaw dropping in quality, material selection and presentation. Then others make knives out of truck springs, files, plow disks, shredder blades... you name it.

Going to the gun and knife shows around here for 30 years, I can think of NONE of them have heard of this particular forum. And... they don't care. Independent cusses, they do what they do, and don't care about the rest of the details. Some are REAL characters, and most are totally unconcerned with your opinion on their work or knives, as long as you don't insult them in any way.

Of course, some are great guys as well, but they are simply too busy to screw around on the net for a few hours a week.

I met this man years and years ago, and he was super nice, and a little surprised (but pleased) at how well his knives were received. Of course, 15+ years ago, I couldn't afford his knives, and I don't know anyone at thsi time that has any contact with him that isn't a fellow maker. He is just too busy. If you follow the link, make sure you hit the home button as it will give you another picture of his work each time you do:

http://www.stoutknives.com/

If I was a knife maker, that guy would either inspire me or give me a complex.

Robert
 
I think it is very easy to see both sides of this discussion. As a service provider, my reputation and experience of my clients help me generate repeat business and sales of my services. I have my own company and have provided repair/remodel services full time for many years.

BUT - my clients can see one another's work. They can talk to my previous client's about the quality of product I turn out as far as cabinets, finsihes and overall repairs are concerned. In fact, most of my clients will gladly let another go see their house if it is a larger remodel.

But when you buy a knife, how many knife makers do you actually get to interview, talk to personally, and then see and hold multiple examples of their work? How can you be sure that what you actually get is what you want, satisfying your vision? Local production would be a distinct asset there if someone could see multiple examples of your work. I think many knife owners look at the customs and drool, but on the other hand feel that several hundred dollars is way to much to be mailing off to someone that will "do their best" to get your knife out in a year or two. If things go well... And by the way, don't let the fact that he lives a few thousand miles away throw you off - RIGHT NOW, he has a good rep.

And I don't know how comfortable I would be buying a knife from someone that was a garage technician. - REMEMBER - professional woodworker here - not poking at the knifemakers - When I started making cabinets in '78, I actually did start making them in a garage. I found there were two types of non-fulltime craftspersons. One did enough to get by, and was simply doing it to add to their income. The other, sat and fiddled with every detail, spending way to much time on the project to get everything as perfect as possible.

If you got a knife from the second guy, you would have a home run, a knife that would probably last a couple of lifetimes. With the first guy, you pay your money and take your chances. And how do you resolve a dispute with someone that is 2000 miles away?

Explain yourself on a forum such as this, and if the guy has his own fan base (that doesn't know yet that the maker is a significantly better knifemaker than businessman!) and you will get shit hammered. I have seen it here. It is like watching someone that was robbed have to explain why it wasn't really their fault someone stuck a gun in their ribs. If someone does post a negative missive here, they cannot be the first.

Being self employed as long as I have been in my life, I understand that not every day is my best day, I don't handle every situation well, and sometimes I just screw up. Everyone is that way. But correcting errors over long distances can be time horribly time consuming.

And in the end, what if the product doesn't meet the original buyer's expectations? What if the bar was too high? What if the expectations were unrealistic, or simply a misunderstanding of the product was to be? Worse, what if it is that "undefinable" quality that is inherent in knives: "it didn't feel right in my hand" or "the steel doesn't hold its edge like I thought".

With a mass produced knife, you return it and you are through. Even the expensive knives are that way. Few knifemakers will take back a knife you custom ordered and returned, giving your money back at the end. (BTW - I don't blame them! I don't give back money on a custom cabinet either!)

On the other hand, perusing this forum has been a real eye opener. I had not idea semi custom knives made to top specs could be had a such great prices. Great designs, great materials, etc.; I have no idea how some of the knife makers here turn out such fine products at such low costs. I have my eye on one maker here that seems to be a pretty straight up guy that sells a great product at a very fair price. I am hoping that my money and his knife availability align at the same time of his next offering.

Again, as a fellow craftsperson.... $200 bucks for a custom knife with a sheath? You can't get anyone that works for me or with me to a job for that...

As always, YMMV. Just my 0.02.

Robert


I go very far out of my way to make certain that my customers are happy with their purchase, I would personally be rather offended if someone DIDN'T give me the opportunity to fix or improve whatever was lacking on their knife.

and I am certain I'm not special in that regard

Stephan
 
I think the custom knife world is doing quite well by most standard. For starters, one thing knifemakers have been extraordinarily good at is educating the next generation of makers, then the next, then the next,.... This is not always the case in the art / craft world.

The second thing that helps the kinfe collecting world is this forum and other similar venues. The free flowing information helps to educate customers and starve off (some) looters. This is key. In this area, the efforts of people like Kevin Jones, David Darom, and (in a different way) Steven Garson are super precious.

In some other areas, the custom knife world still needs much improvement: marketing, work ethics, hype & bubbles, etc.
 
In some other areas, the custom knife world still needs much improvement: marketing, work ethics, hype & bubbles, etc.

I think if the hype is properly handled, the rest will work itself out. With all of us having our own ideas on what is or isn't hype (the facts be cursed!) and more still on the concept of "proper handling," it'll still be an uphill battle.
 
I have collected some custome knives, and also some production knives. infact, which I most used is a products knife Sabenza.
I consider some thing of great value, does not just based on how how offen you use it or how easy you can get it.
Those custom knives money costy, time costy, and knife makers have to work hard on each of them. they are by handworks, and each on is unique. I discuss and share oppinions with the makers during the whole process, and I am waiting patiently and expecting the final reasult for months or years. this is a different way we treat our life, it is very different from just going to a shop and buy a products for use. I do not sure how every body else feels about it, but me myself enjoy this way very much.
and ofcause, personaly, I think the quality of custom knives still better.
 
When I first became really interested in knives the cost and variety of customs was overwhelming so I started with production knives. In particular, older Al Mars. That carried me for a few years as I gradually learned enough about customs to start buying at shows and on the net. I collected coins for a long time and found that I had to narrow it down to an area that was manageable. No one can learn about everything. That's why I started with Al Mars. Of course I liked them and still do. But it also served as an entry point into knives.
 
hey welcome to the forum! First post eh?
See you around:)
 
When I first became really interested in knives the cost and variety of customs was overwhelming so I started with production knives. In particular, older Al Mars. That carried me for a few years as I gradually learned enough about customs to start buying at shows and on the net. I collected coins for a long time and found that I had to narrow it down to an area that was manageable. No one can learn about everything. That's why I started with Al Mars. Of course I liked them and still do. But it also served as an entry point into knives.

Welcome to the BF and you started out collecting customs very wisely in my opinion.
 
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Hi STeve,

Fear of custom knives? I guess you are talking about the $$$ that someone would have to spend to get one.

My Fear of Production knives started at Ft. Benning GA while in Infantry Officer Basic Course...when the handle of a Gerber MKII Dagger came off in my hand.

My Fear of Production knives spread while visiting different "garden spots" CONUS and OCONUS while serving in the 101st Airborne.

You name the brand of factory knife...to include Randall's and I saw them Break..Im not talking duress here. Cold Steel Tanto broke while cutting commo wire against a tree. The tip of a Randall 14 broke while lifting up some ice, etc.

Yes, I first bought a Parrish Hollow Handle Survival knife. Was told I couldn't take that to Somalia. When we got back I bought a 8 1/2" Model 2 by Walter Brend. Why?

Because of my Fear of Production knives...having seen them fail in the field. A place where it is not easy to replace your knife. I realized that my life may depend on my gear. So I viewed custom knives as an investment in potentially saving my life. So to me...the money was worth it.

Yes, I carry a SAK..the one with the tooth pick and scissors (I don't need the blade as in my other pocket is a Phil B folder). It is my Fear of Production knives that only allows me to carry a very small factory knife....and not use the blade. :D

Yes, Yes, I have been told many times that today's factory knives are much better. The only reason is...custom knife maker involvement with the factories.

So don't fear custom knives....Fear those Production knives that didn't start out life as a custom knife first.
 
I have a fear of customs for a few reasons.

Maybr I have bad mojo or something. These are from known makers that have been featured in Blade etc.

1. They may give a 100% satisfaction return policy but the snide remarks and disdain , in addition for the 90 days it finally took the credit to show up, turned me off. This was for a folder that uneven swedge grinds and a handle defect.

2. Finding out that a knife was made by hired help in their shop somehow diminishes your purchase and makes you feel like a rube.

3. Being told the wait is 6 months, they call you in 12 months and want the payment in 48 hours if not they go on to the next buyer

4. Having your order be made wrong i.e. handle material and being made to doubt yourself after the phonecall.

5. Being disappointed in the final product by my own expectations being to high.

etc, etc..

I am not saying this is typical of all makers but just my experience. I would love customs but feel sometimes it is a crapshoot. My one great experience was fantastic I still use and carry that knife (Greg Lightfoot). Just too many bad in a row for me.
 
Hi Tom,

1. They may give a 100% satisfaction return policy but the snide remarks and disdain , in addition for the 90 days it finally took the credit to show up, turned me off. This was for a folder that uneven swedge grinds and a handle defect.

Why did you wait so long. Give them 30 days and then file a charge back with bank that issued the credit card. They take the money out of the person's account the same day.

2. Finding out that a knife was made by hired help in their shop somehow diminishes your purchase and makes you feel like a rube.

Any particular reason you didn't ask the maker how the knives are made? Most "Shop Help" does very little finish work (if any) on the final product. Usually things like cutting out blanks...etc. If you weren't happy with the finish...that is the makers fault for letting it leave the shop.

3. Being told the wait is 6 months, they call you in 12 months and want the payment in 48 hours if not they go on to the next buyer

Not much advise there, other than to cancel the order if they don't deliver on time.

4. Having your order be made wrong i.e. handle material and being made to doubt yourself after the phone call.

This is totally your fault. Any reason you didn't get the order in writing or follow up with an email with exactly what you wanted. Take the confusion out of the equation..put it in writing then both parties know exactly what is expected.

5. Being disappointed in the final product by my own expectations being to high.

Generally this happens when collectors try to get a style of knife that is more expensive and goes to a maker who charges less. There is a reason those "expensive" makers get more money.

As a collector you have to take charge of your collection. Do not leave any detail to chance.

When both parties know exactly what is expected...there are no surprises and subsequently no disappointment.

Lastly....do your homework.
 
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4. Having your order be made wrong i.e. handle material and being made to doubt yourself after the phone call.
"This is totally your fault. Any reason you didn't get the order in writing or follow up with an email with exactly what you wanted. Take the confusion out of the equation..put it in writing then both parties know exactly what is expect".

Shoot, Les, sometimes even WITH written instructions makers can interpret wishes counter to the reality.

Sometimes a phone call is sufficent, not always....Bill Ruple made me exactly what I want x2, with a phone call.

2 other slipjoint makers did not, with WRITTEN INSTRUCTIONS...1 maker gave me a long Case style clip on the main blade, when I wanted something more along the lines of a Queen, another maker made me 1/8" stock full size trapper when I wanted a slim trapper...neither one of us knew enough to ask...that is why we are CONSTANTLY LEARNING when it comes to knife collecting and making.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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More times than not, when a deal goes south between a collector and maker it's the result of poor communication between one or both parties.
 
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