Fed up......

Kohai999

Kohai999

Second Degree Cutter
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
12,554
Hey guys, long time lurker and creator of the "Folksy" moniker.:D

I like slipjoints, always have, and EDC one or more, to compliment the other 3-5 knives I carry.

Well, got the Smoky catalog yesterday, and have just had it.

Although it is TRADITIONAL for a slipjoint to have brass liners, and nickel silver bolsters.....I don't find it acceptable.

Stainless steel, stainless steel, stainless steel.:eek:

If you want carbon blades and springs, by all means...but why accept brass and nickel silver any longer?

I don't mind paying $200.00+ for a decent 3 blade stockman, but I want it to have stainless steel liners and bolsters.

If you disagree, by all means say so, but if you agree, share your thoughts with your favorite manufacturers, and see what the response is.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Some are worse than others, but I can definitely feel your pain, STeven. I guess that's what makes the Case-Bose collabs nicer than the others (imho) though they're overdue for that stockman or sowbelly.
 
Hi Steve,

Btw, thanks for the moniker. As you can tell, we love it!

I think for the average traditional knife guy, brass (and sometimes NS) liners and nickel silver bolsters just go hand in hand with natural handle material and traditional patterns. There is a certain nuance and familiarity there that feels more comfortable for a lot of us old farts. Guess it's just a bit of the aforementioned folksiness. Just as there are several here who just derive both a lot of comfort and pleasure using cast iron cookware. You might even think of it as a touchstone to center one to a tradition and their past when things get crazy.

I'd also venture that for folks who grew up with American and European knives, stainless bolsters and liners just remind them too much of the current crop of Chinese slippies.

For some reason though, I feel more at ease seeing a custom with various stainless steels used for bolsters and liners than I would on a regular production slippy. Then again, many of the customs I've seen seem like modern interpretations of traditional patterns.

Me, I wouldn't mind stainless liners on current made slippies, but I still like nickel silver on the bolsters.

That's just my two cents worth. And welcome back from lurker land.

Amos
 
Blues said:
...... I guess that's what makes the Case-Bose collabs nicer than the others (imho) though they're overdue for that stockman or sowbelly.
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Oh my heck, YES, Elliott!!

I have one of the Wharncliffe Trapper Case-Bose knives, and it is great, but I want pearl, stag or a nice wood with the stainless bolsters and liners....IF ONE manufacturer did a setup like queen does, all the models would be covered, and I bet that they would sell really well for those that don't want to pay custom freight.

I have even thought about asking some custom guys to build around the blades of a big D2 Queen 3-blade, but figure that would be insulting...and don't want to do that.;)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Amos Iron Wolf said:
.......For some reason though, I feel more at ease seeing a custom with various stainless steels used for bolsters and liners than I would on a regular production slippy. Then again, many of the customs I've seen seem like modern interpretations of traditional patterns.

Me, I wouldn't mind stainless liners on current made slippies, but I still like nickel silver on the bolsters.

That's just my two cents worth. And welcome back from lurker land.

Amos
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Yes, the modern customs are generally interpretations of traditional patterns...as it should be...no reason to try and re-make the wheel.:D

My problem with NS is the patina, which is green, unless it is one of those high end "mystery" nickel silvers that does not patina, which I have heard about, but never seen. Got acid skin, too, that doesn't help.

Thanks for the welcome.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
For me it depends on what type of knife is it. For the cool/modern looking knives like spyderco, stainless fits the bill, but not brass. However for a traditional looking knife with wood/horn scale, brass fits the theme perfectly fine, and I'd prefer it over stainless.
 
I like brass and nickle silver. Stainless seems... odd. Steel liners, in my traditional slippies, always seemed to be the mark of the less-expensive knives. Stainless wouldn't seem that way as much, but I'd have to see some to tell.
 
Nickel silver has no place on a custom slipjoint in my opinion. I will add, however, that Mike Alsdorf makes some amazing knives using nickel silver...but think how much nicer they'd be with stainless frames:D I've tried to get him to use stainless, but he has been very resistent. I suspect that'll keep his knives where they are ($) instead of where they should be.
 
I like brass liners. It's worked for a long time on some very nice knives like the original Remintons, and the old Sheffield knives. I may compromise on the bolster if it gives me an advantage like on my old Buck 301 stockman that I put through hell for 25 years. But under normal use by a sane person NS should hold up and it looks nice.

I think for me the deal maker or breaker is the handle materials. If its going to have synthetic scales like my old Buck, then I can see stainless bolsters, but if I'm going to have some nice stag or bone, then I want NS and brass. To do otherwise just seems wrong to me. Like having a really nice smooth sipping whiskey and dumping water in it.
 
Durwood said:
Mike Alsdorf makes some amazing knives using nickel silver...
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Durwood, thank you for saying that name! Last Sat. at a show, someone showed me a custom slip' by him, but I forgot to write his name down, all week I have been trying to remember the maker, all I could remember was it was "A" something!

His work was amazing!
 
Hi STeven, I prefer stainless liner/bolsters on customs but the other is fine on productions. I like the old slips, NS and brass seems 'just right' there.
 
That is a good question as to why they don't use SS more in production knives. It could have something to do with cost or tradition. Brass and N/S adds to the traditional look of knife.

Brass and N/S are softer than SS so it it more susceptable to dings but it is easier on the blade where they rub in the pivot area. In the old days, brass liners were seen as a major improvement because of its natural lubricating/bearing qualities. In knives where SS liners are used it is necessary to do more work to them(ie, milling the pivot area so that the tang stamp doesn't get rubbed out) to make a quality knife. If you have ever looked at old knives with iron liners and you'll see why brass and N/S became so popular.

It's a guess but they probably have determined they will sell more knives by using brass and N/S because they can keep the retail price down AND the look is traditional.

Personally, I think brass looks better with some handle materials but SS is a better, maintenance free material. That brings us back full circle because of that one thing about SS, it always looks the same and never will be folksy.
 
Kerry Hampton said:
That is a good question as to why they don't use SS more in production knives. It could have something to do with cost or tradition. Brass and N/S adds to the traditional look of knife.
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Kerry, I can tell you that cost is 99% of the reason. In my experiance as a machinist, working with stainless steel is a giant PITA. Its tougher, used up more tooling, and takes more man hours to do the same amount of parts as same number in brass or other material. I used to groan when I had a lathe or mill job in stainless steel. One has to go more slowly, with lots of coolent spraying on the cuttng area making a total mess out of things, and the tools no matter if end mill or lathe bit, went dull twice as fast requiring me to stop in mid job and regrind or replace tool.

Making pocket knives, the liners are usually stamped. If you were to try stamping stainless steel, you would have to regrind the stamping dies often, stopping the work. On the other hand you could feed brass stock from a roll, through the stamping operation all day long with no problem.

Stainless steel is hell on tooling compared to other materials.
 
Thomason said:
I knew it! I knew it! STeven was a closet "folksy". :D I'm glad you are out now and posting in the Traditional forum.
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At least he did it this way and didn't have to tap on our shoes in the mens room :D
 
Put me down for SS liners and bolsters especially on custom knives, on some more creative work damascus works for me also. Just depends on the knife itself.

Great to have your knowledge in here STeven.
 
I think stainless steel is the more practical choice, but nickel silver and brass develop more character over time. They look better and make the knife more enjoyable to own IMO.
 
As far as production knives go, brass and Nickle Silver (which is white brass) can be and are made from powdered metals compressed in a mold. I am not sure stainless lends itself too well to MIM. I could be wrong about this though. I haven't kept up with the advances in MIM in the last few years (this century).

codger
 
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