Fed up......

Bastid said:
Put me down for SS liners and bolsters especially on custom knives, on some more creative work damascus works for me also. Just depends on the knife itself.

Great to have your knowledge in here STeven.
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What I really like on a custom slip, is titanium liners and damascus bolsters. Makes for a very light weight folder. Not bad looking either.

Gus knows about this :D
 
A little like this :D

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Don, obviously for customs, and a maker of your skills, anything, relatively can be an option.

What caused this rant was the Case Saddle Trapper in damascus. Just don't understand why a knife that nice(blade grinds, shape, blade material) has brass liners, and NS bolsters. You would THINK it would be a natural for SS.

As far as machining goes, with laser and waterjet techology, this should be a non issue.

As far as traditional goes, yes, rust and patina are traditional, but so are blued finishes and wood stocks for firearms......don't like those much either....I don't own one firearm with wood stocks.

Wood is an AMAZING material, love it on knife handles, but they don't take the use and abuse of a firearm out in the field....just a day of bench shooting can scratch up a nice Claro walnut stock, requiring refinishing....which is annoying.....plastic doesn't show it, and it eats up use and abuse like a hungry man at a Las Vegas buffet.:)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
As far as traditional goes, yes, rust and patina are traditional, but so are blued finishes and wood stocks for firearms......don't like those much either....I don't own one firearm with wood stocks.

Wood is an AMAZING material, love it on knife handles, but they don't take the use and abuse of a firearm out in the field....just a day of bench shooting can scratch up a nice Claro walnut stock, requiring refinishing....which is annoying.....plastic doesn't show it, and it eats up use and abuse like a hungry man at a Las Vegas buffet.:)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Yeah, you're right. I guess I should feel pity for all those dog face G.I.'s who had to lug a walnut stocked M1 from Normandy to Berlin. Or from Guadacanal to Iwo Jima. Imagine, our own government giving those boys delicate plain oiled walnut.:D:D
 
I'm not real sure what is wrong with brass. Why don't people like it for a liner? What makes SS better?
 
jackknife said:
Yeah, you're right. I guess I should feel pity for all those dog face G.I.'s who had to lug a walnut stocked M1 from Normandy to Berlin. Or from Guadacanal to Iwo Jima. Imagine, our own government giving those boys delicate plain oiled walnut.:D:D
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EVERY vet that I know from the Vietnam era preferred the weight and reduced length of the M16....now when you are talking reliability and knock-down power......:eek:

The average "fighting weight" load carried by a current US soldier/Marine is 48 lbs.(from the Warrior, publication by Natick Soldier Systems Center, 1-2/04 pub date)

An M14 or O3'A3 would add about 7 lbs in gun/accessory weight and substantial weight in ammunition....if I didn't have to, I wouldn't want to carry it.

Big difference between Claro walnut, and plain-ass USGI walnut, you know that right?;)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
db said:
I'm not real sure what is wrong with brass. Why don't people like it for a liner? What makes SS better?
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It develops oxidation/rust, that turns it from shiny and beautiful to the color of corroded copper. It is also very, very soft.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
EVERY vet that I know from the Vietnam era preferred the weight and reduced length of the M16....now when you are talking reliability and knock-down power......:eek:

The average "fighting weight" load carried by a current US soldier/Marine is 48 lbs.(from the Warrior, publication by Natick Soldier Systems Center, 1-2/04 pub date)

An M14 or O3'A3 would add about 7 lbs in gun/accessory weight and substantial weight in ammunition....if I didn't have to, I wouldn't want to carry it.

Big difference between Claro walnut, and plain-ass USGI walnut, you know that right?;)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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I remember well when the M16 was phased into service. I enlisted in 1960, and at first it seemed like a good deal, the lighter gun and ammo. but soon alot of G.I.'s who had to use them were wishing for the old M14 back. Its not good for morale when theres incoming fire, and some of your guys are trying to unjam the new aluminum and plastic junker. Especially when the guys in the black pj's are using a rifle designed at the end of WW2 by the Germans. A 7 pound difference is not alot to consider when lives are at stake because of reliability issues. To this day the AK47 is the worlds most produced military rifle. Although I was seperated from the army in 1972 on a medical discharge, I never liked or trusted the M16, and I was not alone in my feelings among my fellow NCO's.

I think its a totally unreasonable outlook to use something and not expect it to start showing some age. If the rifle is picking up a few scratches and it disturbs you that much, sell the gun and buy something with a black plastic stock and a stainless steel finish you can touch up with a scotchbrite pad.

This whole thread seems like the old traditional vs modern thing. If someone wants an all stainless steel and synthetic knife, theres a whole world of Spyderco's and Benchmade's out there. Yes, brass darkens with age, can turn green when neglected, and is soft. Some call it charater. Its nice to have a knife that ages with you. With a chin full of white whiskers I'm not in a position to complain about something showing a little age or wear.

If you hate brass and NS that much, go for a custom where you can order it anyway you like it. Its still a semi-free country last I looked.

And yes, I do know the difference in the walnut. But no matter how pretty a rifle is, its still just a rifle when you get to the bottom line. An object created for a specific use. If one is going to be inhibited in that use because of some scratches, then its self defeating. To think about refinishing a stock because of a few sratches ???

Many, many years from now, when you hand that rifle down to your son, it should look like it has had some good use put to it. Its the undefinable thing called charater that makes us treasure old things. Look at the surging rebirth of the antique buisness in this country. Patina counts for something. It shows a history. For many reasons folks value it. So many times on the Antiques Roadshow I've seen the senerio where the expert is appraising something and he says "This would have been worth X but somebody refinished it..."

When we handle an old knife or gun, and it had the patina of decades if not a century on it with some tarnish, scratches, some dings, worn bluing if its a gun, a grey patina of age on the blade if it s a knife, that object has a story to tell. Something pristine is a dead object in the hand.

I guess theres a tradition to tradtional.
 
jackknife said:
If you hate brass and NS that much, go for a custom where you can order it anyway you like it. Its still a semi-free country last I looked.

.....Many, many years from now, when you hand that rifle down to your son, it should look like it has had some good use put to it. Its the undefinable thing called charater that makes us treasure old things......

When we handle an old knife or gun, and it had the patina of decades if not a century on it with some tarnish, scratches, some dings, worn bluing if its a gun, a grey patina of age on the blade if it s a knife, that object has a story to tell. Something pristine is a dead object in the hand.

I guess theres a tradition to tradtional.
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1. I know that I can go custom...that is what I collect...but I would like the option of getting the product that I want from a manufacturer.

2. Expect to hand my Rolex watch and my Kevin Cashen small sword to my nephew, when the time is right. Everything else will be sold or donated to the NRA, as I won't breed.

3. Don't collect old stuff. Don't like it...my father did, collected a boatload of antiques...not for me. Old for me is made in the 1960's. You can make all the fancy descriptions of rust, patina, chips, and gouges that you want, "storied", "venerable", "full of character"...beat-up is beat-up. I don't much like rust or patina...scratches are just fine....they create their own attractive finish in time. It is simply a matter of opinion from one man to another as to what is a good and desired quality, and what is not.

4. One of the reasons that I don't actively post here is that I don't have much to say about the good 'ol days. I love reading the stories you all post, and appreciate simpler times, just like the rest of you, but those times also represent a lot of ignorance, and stupidity as well.

Traditions can be made and broken, at any time, for any reason. There used to be a tradition in my family of smoking in the "rumpus room" after a holiday meal. In retrospect, it was a pretty dumb tradition.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
This is why if i'm in the market for a $200 factory knife to begin with, I'll just assume save a little more for a custom made of better materials and to my specs. If i'm in the market for a <$70 knife I have no problem with brass and ns.
 
Kohai999 said:
Traditions can be made and broken, at any time, for any reason. There used to be a tradition in my family of smoking in the "rumpus room" after a holiday meal. In retrospect, it was a pretty dumb tradition.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Good point, Mr. Garsson. Some traditions, like the habits or customs they represent, are sure better than others.

I used to have a Remington Nylon 22 stainless. It would take a licking and keep on ticking. I also had a TC 50 cal Hawken that was old blued, lot of brass, walnut, and required a lot of cleaning and tlc which was good for me. I think I enjoyed each of those guns uniqueness equally as well for what they represented. The Hawken, however, always "felt" to me like it had more charisma.

Hope this comment is relevant to the thread here. To each his own, and it is nice to have choice. In a higher priced knife, I would expect to have higher quality materials...however, as has been described, quality is a qualitative word. :)

Interesting thread. :thumbup:
 
Why not eliminate the natural material from the handle of the slippie entirely, as well as the metal liner, and make the whole shooting match out of something like micarta, ala Al Mar/AG Russell models?
 
marcinek said:
Why not eliminate the natural material from the handle of the slippie entirely, as well as the metal liner, and make the whole shooting match out of something like micarta, ala Al Mar/AG Russell models?
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The whole idea is not to (gun analogy) turn a bolt action .223 into a Styr-AUG, but to take the BEST of both the old and the new.

I love stag, good woods, even jigged bone(it does look like trying to take something very basic, and make it into something fancy, though.;))

I have and appreciate some tactical knives, very good ones, but that is not where all of my heart is.

Fewpop, your comments are very appreciated, as are everyone elses.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
This is a great thread as it stimulates thought and discussion. STeven can always be counted on to do that.

And the originator of "folksy" has also brought to mind another excellent tradition which is practiced hereabouts. Respecting differences of opinion and trying to see and understand the points of view of other members and friends.

That said, I like 'em all. (Though I hated the Steyr AUG when I had to carry one on SRT for a few years.)
 
Thank-you very much Thomason. Much appreciated. Here is one for the traditional side. Brass liners and stag seem to have held up OK for 120-140 years.
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Kohai999 said:
...
What caused this rant was the Case Saddle Trapper in damascus. Just don't understand why a knife that nice(blade grinds, shape, blade material) has brass liners, and NS bolsters. You would THINK it would be a natural for SS.
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I agree with you on this point. If they are going to the additional expense and look of damascus blades then brass isn't a good fit. In fact, bone isn't a good fit for handle match with damascus. IT should be very nice fresh ivory, mammoth ivory, high quality stag or some similar high quality material. Oh, and all that for $200-300. :)

Other than that, this being a traditional knife forum and all, uh...I guess we's just happy in our folksy ignorance :D
 
Kerry Hampton said:
.....In fact, bone isn't a good fit for handle match with damascus. IT should be very nice fresh ivory, mammoth ivory, high quality stag or some similar high quality material. Oh, and all that for $200-300. :)

Other than that, this being a traditional knife forum and all, uh...I guess we's just happy in our folksy ignorance :D[/QUOTE]

Nice stag and SS could be done from Case for $400.00 retail, pretty sure about that. It would cost double that from most makers, for custom, as it should.

I don't think that anyone here is ignorant.....folksy, definitely.;)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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