Feedback needed, Is this normal Spyderco quality????? *PICTURES*

You sure about that chief?

frenchmade said:
Send it back. Get a new one. It's important to be happy with your knife.
If the knife is sharp all the way through then that means the grind is much more obtuse during the short part and more acute towards the tip where the relief cut is a proper length.
Despite what people say here, this WILL affect cutting performance and will make the blade significantly harder to sharpen on a regular consumer sharpener.
You couldn't fix that on something like a Spyderco Sharpmaker for example.
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i had a tenacious that came like crap, then i got a endura and that was also ground super uneven, what have i decided? im a normal working man i work with my knives, so ill buy it at walmart use it till it breaks and get a new 1... (that and the gerbers and kershaws at walmart have life time warranties too so all i gota do is send it for a fix)

i dont see any reason ppl need to spend 100+ on a knife unless maybe they needed it for survival or were in the military, all these ppl who carry around 150$ benchmades to cut tape off of stuff must have a boatload of extra cash floating around.
just my opinion tho, if you got the money and it makes u happy.
 
MJF said:
Why do you assume it's simple to put a decent edge on it at the factory? I know you're new here, but you're expecting perfection from a $30 knife, and frankly, you're expecting something which doesn't really exist, especially not at that price range. On top of that, the aesthetics of the grind really don't matter. What's important is that the knife is sharp. Is it sharp?
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is this a joke?
 
Just for grins, I bought 3 different SRM knives for less than $10 each. All had symmetrical grinds and were very sharp out of the box, so I know it can be done. Even if it is a $30 Spyderco, I would hold them to at least the standard of a $10 SanRenMu.
 
In another thread on another forum, in connection with uneven grinds, I mentioned that I happened to be there when a store owner friend opened a box(around 500) of varied K/O folders and a large majority of them had pretty even grinds. These were selling retail at $3-$5 with profit already. I can just imagine what they cost to make. I do understand that cost is also largely in the materials but the workmanship was actually pretty good.
 
Brian Sargent said:
It often happens in knives ... the steel is probably thicker at the tip.
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I know the OP's problem has been resolved, but why did no one else seem to see the above piece of wisdom here? If the grind angle is kept consistently linear then, on a full flat grind, the edge at the "tallest" point of the blade will be thinner than at any point higher on the blade. This means that, visually, the edge bevel, if kept consistent, is going to LOOK wider in the thicker regions. Many companies do their flat grinds at an angle so that distal taper is achieved, but this is not always the case. Just because a grind LOOKS uneven doesn't mean that the angle is inconsistent. What I find much more common and frustrating is when a knife keeps a uniform LOOKING edge bevel when in fact it's changing along the entire length of the edge just to keep things looking pretty. This leads to tips with very obtuse bevels, and that DOES affect performance. I'd rather have a wonky looking bevel with a consistent angle than one that looked nice but changed angle along its length.

Just some food for thought.
 
frontline29 said:
Glad to hear you got it fixed up.

Now let's see some before and after pics!

I'm thinking about picking up the blacked out version from S&R.
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If i get a chance i'll post a pic later today, i got mine at S&R!, i'm on my way there again this morning to get a Boker ive been looking at!
 
Yes i'm feeling much better, The Mastiff, i wrote i resolved the problem myself so there is no need to exchange the knife, is there a problem with me asking if anyone else has had a shitty ground blade cause it seems to me you have a problem with me using the forum to ask such a question, if there is let me know cause as far as i know they are for asking questions right? right!, ok thank you.
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To my way of thinking it seemed you had your mind made up before you posted which makes me interested in why you posted this thread rather than attempting to repair or replace through W&R. That's typically how I approach problems. I give the company or person I'm doing business a chance to make it right before I go and post a thread on a huge international forum. That would make me feel like I had a beef and wanted to get back at, or hurt in some way a company who I have yet to even speak too.

I also try to keep things in perspective. What the item is a cutting tool, but just a tool nevertheless. I'm much more concerned about function , and looks come in a distant second. I also know that I buy knives to use, not look at. The first time I used it the knife would look just that. Used. If the grind was off by a few thousands but cut well that would be the end of it.

If I was buying a safe queen for resale I'd want, and demand greater adherence to specs, and overall symmetry. I'd also be spending more money, have done better research ahead of time, and likely selected from several if possible. If I had a problem I would do everything I could to respectfully resolve the problem before I posted it on Blade forums. If the knife was inspected by QC and found to be in spec and not eligible for exchange I'd try to get it replaced anyway. I would do that as professionally as possible as well, as I would want to be treated. Letting Spyderco owners find out about trouble not through the system they set up just to respond to those problems but by looking at the forums and the usual magnified pictures is just not the way I choose to live my life or do business.

We are all different though, aren't we. My system works for me. Yours I suppose works for you. Let me ask you earnestly. What did you accomplish with this thread other than making changes to the knife yourself? Does it satisfy some longing to pay back spyderco for daring to inconvenience you in some way? I'm curious.



Joe
 
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If this were a Gerber he posted pictures of, I wonder if he would be getting chastized for trashing a manufacturer. I doubt it, because that would fit in with everyone's mental conception of Gerber knives. People would tell him to "buy a good knife, like a Spyderco". Spyderco enjoys a reputation on here for having excellent quality- it is disingenuous to now say that "well, you can't expect too much on a $40 knife" or "other makers have the same problems all the time".

Personally, an even grind is one of the main things I judge production knife quality on, right behind good heat treatment and solid lockup. It is much more important to me than the usual things I see people nitpicking (blade centering, slight amounts of horizontal play). It directly affects performance and/or durability, and for an inexperienced knife sharpener it may not be feasible to correct.

It would be very wrong to conclude from this one incident that Spyderco is a poor maker, or even that their Chinese knives are poorly made. I am very pleased with my two Spydies (Para 2, and a chinese Kiwi). But I don't agree that people who have problems should refrain from posting them on a consumer-oriented forum for knife enthusiasts. It is valuable info for the consumers, as well as makers (as long as they use it to improve their products- I believe Spyderco is well known for doing this)

I do think the OPs title is unneccesarily provocative. But its almost understandable after shelling out $40 for a knife (not a 'cheap' knife to most normal people) which you normally hear high praise for.
 
The Tenacious is up to $40 now? Mine was $28 shipped. It wasn't on sale or anything. At $28 I'd be more willing to let certain issues slide than at $40. However, it was never openly discussed as to whether the odd grind affected performance or not. It was just... "fixed". If my grinds are uneven but performance isn't an issue, I'm not sure how loudly I'd complain.

This is a forum that caters to knife enthusiasts of all types and budgets. And while those who enjoy their inexpensive knives should find just as much enjoyment and camaraderie as folks who buy the higher end stuff, it doesn't change the fact that in such a vast sea of self-professed "knife knuts", a $40 knife is largely considered "cheap".
 
Robs92XJ said:
If this were a Gerber he posted pictures of, I wonder if he would be getting chastized for trashing a manufacturer. I doubt it, because that would fit in with everyone's mental conception of Gerber knives. People would tell him to "buy a good knife, like a Spyderco". Spyderco enjoys a reputation on here for having excellent quality- it is disingenuous to now say that "well, you can't expect too much on a $40 knife" or "other makers have the same problems all the time".
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Haha, if it was a Gerber knife he was whining about, the thread would have been full of comments like "You're lucky they even bothered to sharpen the knife before they sent it to you", "Looks like Gerber upgraded their steel", or "Wow, that thing has pretty amazing fit and finish for a Gerber". :p

Robs92XJ said:
Personally, an even grind is one of the main things I judge production knife quality on, right behind good heat treatment and solid lockup. It is much more important to me than the usual things I see people nitpicking (blade centering, slight amounts of horizontal play). It directly affects performance and/or durability, and for an inexperienced knife sharpener it may not be feasible to correct.
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I guess you're not a big fan of Cold Steel or Benchmade, then, are you? ;) I can understand being concerned about the primary bevel, as that is something the end user can't be expected to alter or repair, but I really don't understand getting your panties in a bunch about the edge that a) will require regular sharpening with regular use, and, b) is probably the single easiest part of a knife to alter or tweak. Yes, a knife's secondary bevel affects the knife's performance (although I can't see how the symmetry of the secondary bevel can in any way affect durability), but OP's knife arrived sharp and ready to use. The only problem with it was that it didn't look good enough to suit him - that's definitely not an issue of performance.

Robs92XJ said:
But I don't agree that people who have problems should refrain from posting them on a consumer-oriented forum for knife enthusiasts. It is valuable info for the consumers, as well as makers (as long as they use it to improve their products- I believe Spyderco is well known for doing this)

I do think the OPs title is unneccesarily provocative. But its almost understandable after shelling out $40 for a knife (not a 'cheap' knife to most normal people) which you normally hear high praise for.
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Nobody has said that "people who have problems should refrain from posting them". Furthermore, I haven't seen anyone "Chastize him for trashing a manufacturer", either. You seem to be reading things into this thread that aren't really there. See, what the OP did was ask for everyone's thoughts, feedback, and opinions, which he received in due course. Then he got butthurt because the opinions he received did not match his own. As The Mastiff noted, it seems like he had already made a conclusion before he posted here.

Allyourblood: OP says he bought the knife in Canada - inflated prices are kind of the norm here. I think I paid more like 50$ with shipping for my tenacious, and I bought it from the same company as OP (if I understand him correctly).
 
Dorito Monk said:
Allyourblood: OP says he bought the knife in Canada - inflated prices are kind of the norm here. I think I paid more like 50$ with shipping for my tenacious, and I bought it from the same company as OP (if I understand him correctly).
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Whoops! Missed that part. I also realized it's the black coated version which might be at a bit of a premium over the satin version. Thanks for the catch.

Still, if it makes anyone feel any better, the primary bevels on my Benchmade 806D2 were terribly uneven when it was new. I don't recall making a single post about it at the time (other than to say how great it is), and it's still one of my all-time favorite knives. Despite years of sharpening, the grind was so off on one side that they remain uneven to this day. That was a $100+ knife. I couldn't have cared less.
 
- A knife is designed with a certain edge angle and thickness. In theory, this should be the optimal design for the intended use of the knife.

If the edge is ground thicker than intended (which appears to be the case for the OP for the portion near the heel), performance will suffer. If it is ground thinner than intended, durability will suffer. If it is ground assymetrically, there will be torques created during cutting (as with a chisel grind) that will compromise both durability and performance for certain kinds of cutting. The differences are subtle but they are there.

- It is annoying for most people to have to reprofile a new knife. It takes a lot of time and considerable skill to do it right.

- Of course the OP had reached a conclusion before he posted: his knife was an example of a lapse in quality. However trivial you may think it is, I don't see how that is debatable. He also implied that this was representative of all Spydercos, which is going too far.

- The gist from many of the posters was that they thought the OP was unfairly making a big deal out of this flaw, and that really its not so unusual to get uneven grinds. Some suggested that he should kept this between himself and the maker, and one insinuated he had some ulterior motive for posting this. Those sentiments stood out to me more so than those offering him constructive advice on what to do about it.

- Allyourblood: I don't understand the point you're trying to make when you say you never mentioned on the forums the bad grind you got from benchmade. Apparently this grind was off by enough that years of sharpening could not correct it, yet on the forums you just went on about how awesome it was? Even if it was your favorite knife despite the grind, that info would have been valuable to people who do care about such things. Instead, they got unequivocal praise. I guess I am more interested in hearing about knives, warts and all. More data points for prospective consumers.
 
I would just sharpen it and enjoy it.

It is definitely a bit uneven there. It looks like the there might actually be an unsharpened spot along the middle of that edge, where the edge grinds don't actually meet.
 
Robs92XJ said:
- A knife is designed with a certain edge angle and thickness. In theory, this should be the optimal design for the intended use of the knife.
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That's a huge assumption and one I completely disagree with. While it may be the manufacturer's chosen angle for any number of reasons, to assume that the factory edge angle is in any way optimal doesn't make any sense. The manufacturer has no idea how a user intends to employ the knife and what edge will be suitable for their needs. What edge is most effective depends on a number of factors that knife companies can't come close to guessing. It's fairly common knowledge that most manufacturers edge their knives at an angle that will hopefully last a long time without significant deformation. That's all.

If the edge is ground thicker than intended (which appears to be the case for the OP for the portion near the heel), performance will suffer. If it is ground thinner than intended, durability will suffer.
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Based on what? What performance? What materials are being cut? What tasks are being performed?

- Allyourblood: I don't understand the point you're trying to make when you say you never mentioned on the forums the bad grind you got from benchmade.
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Really? You argued that people were making excuses for Spyderco's factory edge based on who they are and not on the value of the knife. You also implied that a $40 knife is not what "normal people" consider to be cheap, and therefore at its price point, the edge should have been more evenly ground. I disagree with that and offered my example as support of my opinion. The company being Spyderco had little to do with people's opinion that the OP was making a mountain out of a molehill. The knife being $40 had little to do with people taking a relaxed attitude toward the uneven grind. It just wasn't that big of an issue, and while no one minded it being mentioned (as far as I can tell), folks were more offended by how it was worded.

Apparently this grind was off by enough that years of sharpening could not correct it, yet on the forums you just went on about how awesome it was?
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Yup.

The two are not mutually exclusive. Years of regular sharpening didn't change the uneven grind in the blade toward the spine and probably won't for a long time. Despite this, the cutting edge was shaving sharp upon arrival, and has remained exactly that throughout the years. It's an excellent knife and its cutting performance is unaffected by the uneven grind in any way, other than aesthetics.

Even if it was your favorite knife despite the grind, that info would have been valuable to people who do care about such things. Instead, they got unequivocal praise.
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You're darn right they did. As I mentioned, the uneven grind hasn't affected the knife's performance and was, in my eyes, well within spec given the knife's price point and my own expectations. For $100, I find it completely acceptable. Am I somehow under obligation to volunteer information about my property that I find wholly arbitrary to its overall performance and my own satisfaction? You seem to imply that I've done the knife community a disservice by not sharing what I considered to be a rather insignificant detail; that instead I somehow deceived them by omitting what is apparently a colossally important... *shudder*... "data point".

You might want to hear about a knife in its entirety, "warts and all", and that's fine. But I have no expectations about what people are willing to share, and I don't think anyone else should, either. I chose not to share the aforementioned info and I don't feel the community is any worse for it. The OP went the other way, and well, are we that much more enlightened?
 
Robs92XJ said:
- Of course the OP had reached a conclusion before he posted: his knife was an example of a lapse in quality. However trivial you may think it is, I don't see how that is debatable. He also implied that this was representative of all Spydercos, which is going too far.

- The gist from many of the posters was that they thought the OP was unfairly making a big deal out of this flaw, and that really its not so unusual to get uneven grinds. Some suggested that he should kept this between himself and the maker, and one insinuated he had some ulterior motive for posting this. Those sentiments stood out to me more so than those offering him constructive advice on what to do about it.
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Then why did he bother asking what the rest of us thought about the situation if he had already made up his mind? Self affirmation? :confused: It's no wonder a couple users pointed out the incongruity there.

Probably the most common theme I saw in this thread (aside from the "It's not a big deal" theme) went along the lines of "It's your knife, do what you want with it". Most folks told him that if he wasn't happy with it to do something about it, whether they suggested returning it to Spyderco, the company he bought it from, or reprofile it himself. You seem to think the OP's had a rough deal or is getting treated unfairly here, and while I don't really see that happening, that might well be the case. Mostly, though, he seems to be getting a whole wack of constructive advice and, as he requested, other peoples' opinions. :thumbup:

So yeah, as with the OP, do what you want with your own knives. If you demand that the grind be symmetrical and uniform to within 0.00000000001" on your cheap chinese production knives, by all means, send them back to the factory when they don't meet your standards. Write your congressman about it. Post on bladeforums to warn us about those horrible sloppy no good knives. Just remember: there's no need to get all butthurt when other folks don't happen to agree with you. ;)
 
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