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Feedback on My Knife Design Please
- Thread starter TempusExMachina
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First, I think many makers will balk at making such a close copy of another maker's design. I wouldn't be surprised if Hest Knives even has trademarks or patents on some of the distinctive features.
Second, that pummel looks dangerous and is aesthetically unattractive.
You know what though, I do prefer your blade over the Hest. Lose the beaked pummel. Lose the jimping. Lose the bottle opener. In short, take your nice flowing blade design and clean it up by removing the clutter.
Just my opinion, since you asked.
Couldn't agree more... like i said in my first post (and others have said) the clutter on this design is more harm than good and it makes the decent design of the knife less attractive. DPX Hest probably has trademarks or patents on some of the "distinctive" features... and they can have them. Every "distinctive" feature of this knife has been done before by someone else and they are all practically useless.
1. that Bird beak is more dangerous than it is good for a "prybar"
2. that bottle opener IS a stress riser that IS the most likely place that blade will break, and it WILL weaken the blade.
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Great point about the knife's profiling - I'll explore.
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Here's the pry bar on the pommel via the HEST knife that I'm envisioning. The sheath will need to be designed to secure it.
Shorttime
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Okay.
ESEE's and some Randall Adventure Team knives did/do include a prybar tip, but it was centerline with the blade, making it less of a problem for the user.
My suggestion echoes the one of others who have gone before me, but with a significant difference:
I think you should make TWO tools.
The first is a knife, just a knife, with just a handle and a cutting edge.
The other tool fits in a pocket on the sheath, and includes a prybar, wire cutter, and whatever else you want to put on it.
ESEE's and some Randall Adventure Team knives did/do include a prybar tip, but it was centerline with the blade, making it less of a problem for the user.
My suggestion echoes the one of others who have gone before me, but with a significant difference:
I think you should make TWO tools.
The first is a knife, just a knife, with just a handle and a cutting edge.
The other tool fits in a pocket on the sheath, and includes a prybar, wire cutter, and whatever else you want to put on it.
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perhaps im the odd man out in this instance... In my opinion M390 should be plenty tough for almost any knife other than a large chopper. i've had this discussion numerous times on these forums and as far as stainless goes, M390 is pretty tough. I've used 440c for years in survival type knives and although it's not considered "tough" by charpy standards, it takes a severe beating and has never let me down (and yes, i have pushed it past what would be considered abuse). I can only assume others such as ELMAX and M390 would have no trouble in standing up to whatever you threw at them.
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perhaps im the odd man out in this instance... In my opinion M390 should be plenty tough for almost any knife other than a large chopper. i've had this discussion numerous times on these forums and as far as stainless goes, M390 is pretty tough. I've used 440c for years in survival type knives and although it's not considered "tough" by charpy standards, it takes a severe beating and has never let me down (and yes, i have pushed it past what would be considered abuse). I can only assume others such as ELMAX and M390 would have no trouble in standing up to whatever you threw at them.
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How many staples do you need to pull while "surviving"?
The design is so close to the Hest I have to go back and forth to see any difference. Seems like you could deal with the Hest as is, or make small modifications, instead of dropping $400+ to have it made.
The design is so close to the Hest I have to go back and forth to see any difference. Seems like you could deal with the Hest as is, or make small modifications, instead of dropping $400+ to have it made.
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Just my additional 2-cent thoughts about the pommel design:
1) It looks similar to the 1950's USAF Boker 155, so the HEST's pommel design appears as an edgier resurfacing of the USAF design (and I'm sure others before and after the Boker 155 may exist - the bird shaped pommel is not original to the HEST).
2) The pommel may also serve to help prevent the hands from slipping down the handle.
1) It looks similar to the 1950's USAF Boker 155, so the HEST's pommel design appears as an edgier resurfacing of the USAF design (and I'm sure others before and after the Boker 155 may exist - the bird shaped pommel is not original to the HEST).
2) The pommel may also serve to help prevent the hands from slipping down the handle.
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Nothing is original to the HEST.
Just like you are copying HEST, the HEST has borrowed every feature from other long-existing knife designs.
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Look, I've been using knives for ~40 years, and been collecting for almost as long, and I still haven't thought the need to design a perfect knife for myself. I rely on the professionals.
Whether you realize it or not, you are not ready to design a knife because you obviously haven't got the basics down yet. If you don't understand balance on a usin' knife, you aren't ready to start.
It's like drawing airplanes and hot rods back in grade school. Just drawing something that you think is "cool" doesn't mean that it'll transfer to real-world applications.
I sincerely suggest again that you spend your money on a couple of well-regarded designs easily available and just go and use them somewhere. Get a basic understanding of how knives perform before you sit back down to the drawing board.
Whether you realize it or not, you are not ready to design a knife because you obviously haven't got the basics down yet. If you don't understand balance on a usin' knife, you aren't ready to start.
It's like drawing airplanes and hot rods back in grade school. Just drawing something that you think is "cool" doesn't mean that it'll transfer to real-world applications.
I sincerely suggest again that you spend your money on a couple of well-regarded designs easily available and just go and use them somewhere. Get a basic understanding of how knives perform before you sit back down to the drawing board.
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I see no similarity between the pommel on the Boker and the HEST. Not sure what you're seeing.
Do you own a HEST? If not, get one. They're about $99. I had one and really found that prybar thingy got in the way of many grips on the knife and was nearly impossible to use. If you sharpen that blade up good and put in in the sheath and hold onto the sheath to pry, you are going to seriously injur yourself when that sheath comes apart...probably not prying out staples mind you...but you get frisky and try to pry open a car door in an accident or something, there are going to be injuries. So for prying you're limited to holding the handle for safety...and that's a real knuckle buster.
Do you own a HEST? If not, get one. They're about $99. I had one and really found that prybar thingy got in the way of many grips on the knife and was nearly impossible to use. If you sharpen that blade up good and put in in the sheath and hold onto the sheath to pry, you are going to seriously injur yourself when that sheath comes apart...probably not prying out staples mind you...but you get frisky and try to pry open a car door in an accident or something, there are going to be injuries. So for prying you're limited to holding the handle for safety...and that's a real knuckle buster.
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This is from the trademark infringement guide lines.
"Where the respective marks or products or services are not identical, similarity will generally be assessed by reference to whether there is a likelihood of confusion that consumers will believe the products or services originated from the trademark owner."
How I interpret that is, as long as it can not be confused with the original, you are safe. As for your design, I think have made, what ever makes you happy. If you like the design so much, you just want it with much better quality materials and better craftsmanship, then I do not see a problem with that.
Good luck
"Where the respective marks or products or services are not identical, similarity will generally be assessed by reference to whether there is a likelihood of confusion that consumers will believe the products or services originated from the trademark owner."
How I interpret that is, as long as it can not be confused with the original, you are safe. As for your design, I think have made, what ever makes you happy. If you like the design so much, you just want it with much better quality materials and better craftsmanship, then I do not see a problem with that.
Good luck
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So, from what I gather, it sounds like there should be no problem at all if I just get this knife made for my own personal use. Anything beyond this may be patent infringement based on whether or not my knife is deemed "similar" to the DPx HEST. That is a very loose term -- even if I were to just make two of these knives (one in 60-NiTinol and the other in M390), and I ended up keeping one and selling the other, then the copyright infringement applies due to the sale of a knife similar to the HEST (?). The best way is to ask a patent professional, or to reference case examples to determine what "similar" means. But, in the meantime, could you all please let me know if you think my knife is similar to the DPx HEST? And, of course, I appreciate all feedback.
Differences on my knife:
- Metal
- Bigger size (thickness, length, and width)
- Jimping (not a wire cutter)
- Location of cordage hole only at pommel -- different shape
- No storage in handle
- Handle materials (WWII ammo primers w/ Ti 6.4 Corby bolts as bases, and desert ironwood scales)
- More resilient notch sensitivity where blade begins due to angle
- Convex grind
- Straight profile
- Bottle opener shape (top half of hexagon shape w/ rounded corners)
- Relative proportions of handle and blade lengths
- Concave vertical fuller / "blood groove" (thickness in concavity is lower than adjacent blade and ricasso)
- Angle of thumb ramp, spine down to drop point, and non-round finger guard at ricasso (top half of hexagon shape w/ rounded corners)
- Blue Amsteel
Differences on my knife:
- Metal
- Bigger size (thickness, length, and width)
- Jimping (not a wire cutter)
- Location of cordage hole only at pommel -- different shape
- No storage in handle
- Handle materials (WWII ammo primers w/ Ti 6.4 Corby bolts as bases, and desert ironwood scales)
- More resilient notch sensitivity where blade begins due to angle
- Convex grind
- Straight profile
- Bottle opener shape (top half of hexagon shape w/ rounded corners)
- Relative proportions of handle and blade lengths
- Concave vertical fuller / "blood groove" (thickness in concavity is lower than adjacent blade and ricasso)
- Angle of thumb ramp, spine down to drop point, and non-round finger guard at ricasso (top half of hexagon shape w/ rounded corners)
- Blue Amsteel
Last edited:
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To me, It's almost identical. The little gimicky things like ammo primers in the handles are not significant design changes.
The only visible difference in the profile is that your drop point comes down towards the tip more than the DPX, which I actually like better. Gives the HEST more belly.
The only visible difference in the profile is that your drop point comes down towards the tip more than the DPX, which I actually like better. Gives the HEST more belly.
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What would be the defining feature of the HEST knife that would make other knives "similar" to it? Would it be the shape of the pommel and location of the bottle opener?
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Shape, bottle opener, and prybar. Leave out the bottle opener or move it. Change the prybar, from front facing to side to side like a chisel. Do you own any kind of HEST? If not, why don't you purchase one and figure out what features you like/don't like based on USE? You might decide that this isn't really the knife you want a custom version of.