Feedback when sharpening on ceramics. Any tricks?

[Jamesh Bond]

I'm finally SOMEWHAT competent enough with my DMT Coarse/Fine and Norton Crystalon stones, especially when lubricated, to tell when I'm grinding exactly on the bevel, and can usually tell if I'm too high or low if the feeling or sound changes. Still at the guessing stage some, so I can't really say exactly what changes, but when something does, I reset and go back to what I learned the right alignment sounds and feels like. Highly unscientific. Because of the very obvious feedback, and aggressive abrasives, my bevels are nice and flat (as can be) off these stones. But I could improve.

Moving on to my spyderco Profile ceramics, in medium and fine, is another story. I get very little changes with these. They seem to sound and feel the same no matter what angle I'm at. Between the weak feedback, and less aggressive abrasives, I almost always end up with a microbevel when finishing with these stones, as the only distinctict indicator I can perceive is feeling the blade bite when I raise it. If I don't do that, I usually end up convexing the crap out of my previously flat bevels, while still missing some apex here and there. Very inefficient.

I also always end up with a barely perceptible wire edge after ceramics, no matter what technique I try or how light I go.

BACKGROUND: At the risk of sounding arrogant, there's very little regarding sharpening that I haven't heard or learned. (applying is obviously another matter lol). The basics have been covered. I know my sharpie tricks, free handing techniques, stropping concepts, burr removal ideas, etc. The stones listed are my kit, and I strop on legal pads and plain leather. Deliberately simple.

I mention all this to avoid redundancy. But there's obviously something I'm missing if I'm having difficulties after over a decade of sharpening.

I can still create a super evil edge, but I know it's taking me far to long.

What I'm after here is more efficiency, and ease. More skill in refining my techique. I'm after advanced info.

THE MAIN QUESTION: since my weakness is apparent on my ceramics I'm hoping some of you gurus can share some feedback tips and tricks I can use with the Spyderco set. I have so much trouble feeling anything with those things!

Apologies for the horrid, wordy post when all I needed was ceramic feedback tips. I'm fried right now. But I figured some background might help avoid repetition and save time.

I appreciate anyone who took the time to read this. Looking forward to hearing from the masters. Jason and Heavy?

Thanks you guys!

 

[DeadboxHero]

I'm finally SOMEWHAT competent enough with my DMT Coarse/Fine and Norton Crystalon stones, especially when lubricated, to tell when I'm grinding exactly on the bevel, and can usually tell if I'm too high or low if the feeling or sound changes. Still at the guessing stage some, so I can't really say exactly what changes, but when something does, I reset and go back to what I learned the right alignment sounds and feels like. Highly unscientific. Because of the very obvious feedback, and aggressive abrasives, my bevels are nice and flat (as can be) off these stones. But I could improve.

Moving on to my spyderco Profile ceramics, in medium and fine, is another story. I get very little changes with these. They seem to sound and feel the same no matter what angle I'm at. Between the weak feedback, and less aggressive abrasives, I almost always end up with a microbevel when finishing with these stones, as the only distinctict indicator I can perceive is feeling the blade bite when I raise it. If I don't do that, I usually end up convexing the crap out of my previously flat bevels, while still missing some apex here and there. Very inefficient.

I also always end up with a barely perceptible wire edge after ceramics, no matter what technique I try or how light I go.

BACKGROUND: At the risk of sounding arrogant, there's very little regarding sharpening that I haven't heard or learned. (applying is obviously another matter lol). The basics have been covered. I know my sharpie tricks, free handing techniques, stropping concepts, burr removal ideas, etc. The stones listed are my kit, and I strop on legal pads and plain leather. Deliberately simple.

I mention all this to avoid redundancy. But there's obviously something I'm missing if I'm having difficulties after over a decade of sharpening.

I can still create a super evil edge, but I know it's taking me far to long.

What I'm after here is more efficiency, and ease. More skill in refining my techique. I'm after advanced info.

THE MAIN QUESTION: since my weakness is apparent on my ceramics I'm hoping some of you gurus can share some feedback tips and tricks I can use with the Spyderco set. I have so much trouble feeling anything with those things!

Apologies for the horrid, wordy post when all I needed was ceramic feedback tips. I'm fried right now. But I figured some background might help avoid repetition and save time.

I appreciate anyone who took the time to read this. Looking forward to hearing from the masters. Jason and Heavy?

Thanks you guys!

it sounds like your looking for the same feel as the Norton's that you have become accustomed too.



maybe you should go by visual thenstead of feel.

Check the scratches and adjust accordingly

Haha or maybe you just need some rest and start again fresh.

 

[HeavyHanded]

When you move to finer stones there is always going to be a drop off in feedback. It will still be there but will just become increasingly faint.

The best trick I have to counter this is two part.

First - always work from the shoulder to the apex. Do not think you can set the edge on the bevel and get best results floating in your margin of mechanical error (I still do this from time to time when in a hurry, but not when I want the best outcome I'm capable of). Is possible, but not very systematic.

By running from the shoulder to the edge you should find you always stay within your target angle. Although in theory you will be making it slightly more acute every time, due to margin of error you will find you simply maintain the target angle better.

Second - as you work, every so often lower the spine for a pass or two so you lightly "bump" the shoulder transition on the stone. This will give you an on the go tactile feedback that is extremely reliable. Just as you have been elevating the spine to get the feel of the apex on the stone (and so make the edge too obtuse), change that out to use the shoulder transition to recalibrate instead.

As you feel it hit, elevate the spine till it just drops off and keep grinding. At some point (with practice) you will find the edge becomes "trapped" between the shoulder and the apex - you'll begin to feel the apex catch/drag almost in the instant you feel the increased feedback from the shoulder begin to fade. I've tried to convey this in some of my videos, but the audible change on recording is not apparent (in a noisy environment it is not apparent in person!) and the tactile sensation does not come across at all. This is one of my best "tricks" and can not only speed up your hand grinding but increase your precision as well. As I'm pounding along I frequently give a slight bump and go every six passes or so - fewer as I get closer to resetting the bevel. At some point every pass feels sticky on the stone and I know without even looking I have a burr and/or am three finger sticky on the edge.

At this stage you have made the most flat edge bevel your mechanics and senses (and patience!) are capable of producing. Using this method and being honest with myself, I can make a near dead flat bevel - most often I use it a bit more loosely just to verify I am still in the neighborhood of my target angle.

On edges with very thin primary grinds and relatively small angle shifts between primary and cutting bevel there will be precious little feedback at the shoulder but it will still feel different from the bevel or apex hitting.

On convex you will need to work behind the apex and sneak up on the apex by slightly elevating the spine till you just feel it catching. On convex the bulk of the work is always going to be just behind the edge, the edge itself only requires a pass or three total to grind a new apex. This is true to a lesser extent on edges with extremely narrow cutting bevels and shallow angle shifts from primary to cutting bevel per above, and partially offsets the reduced tactile markers.

Edit to add:

I also always end up with a barely perceptible wire edge after ceramics, no matter what technique I try or how light I go.

Ceramics are tricky in that regard, at the fine end they tend to operate with a blend of burnishing and grinding and so are more likely than other means to create a wire edge or have trouble removing the burr. I suspect it is this factor and this media that led CS to develop his burrless plateau method. Is also a reason why microbevels are so popular when using ceramics.

Super light pressure, keep the hone clean as you can, recondition it if its getting old. In my case once I hit the fine/ultrafine ceramics I only use them to create a microbevel most of the time as it takes too much QC/visual inspection to make a clean single bevel edge. If I'm mirroring up the entire edge on ceramics is more of an exercise than for any practical reason and I expect to need extra patience for clean burr removal off the stone.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

"... the only distinctict indicator I can perceive is feeling the blade bite when I raise it. "

This is actually about 70% of what you're looking for, at least; more so, as that sense becomes more developed. I'd suggest taking some time to cultivate that sense of the edge 'biting' into the hone. Focus on nothing but that objective, and don't allow yourself to be distracted by anything else. Experiment with your hold on the knife and hone (if you're holding the hone), and see how that 'feel' changes with variations in hold and grip (pressure, varying areas of contact on the fingertips, etc). I've found that keeping the grip as light as possible, but still firm enough to maintain control, is better for enhancing that feedback felt through the fingertips. Also focus on finding a hold on the knife that makes positioning the angle more natural and 'automatic' for your hands, with less deliberate, conscious intervention. Calibrate that hold by paying attention to the edge-biting sensation while doing so, and try to set it so the slightest raising of the angle from that hold will be immediately felt. While doing all these things, it's also helpful to mark the edge with a Sharpie and see how all these changes in hold, grip pressure, etc are affecting where the ink comes off the bevels. Use a good, well-lighted magnifier (I'd recommend 10X or better) to look for that.

If you're not already doing so, in my own use of small hones, I've also felt it advantageous to hold the hone in one hand while holding the knife in the other, as it effectively gives you twice the feedback, coming from both hands. Focus on the same objectives as above, in holding the hone: light grip, natural & comfortable hold in the hand which sets the angle more automatically, etc.

All this is only a starting point. But, hopefully it'll be enough to trigger sort of an 'Aha!' moment for you. It's what made the difference for me.


David

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

I'm not sure if this will be helpful. I use baby oil on my Spyderco UF, and the' 'vacuum' effect felt when bevel is flat on the stone helps me tremendously. Martin & David are spot on, they are my gurus and the advices become my guide in my sharpening journey.

Good luck!

 

[bgentry]

Using the two handed technique (The Japanese Stroke) is key to feeling the bevel on the stone for me. Yes, you can get sound feedback and even "drag" feedback with one hand, through the handle of the blade. You should definitely use this feedback.

But you can get more from your second hand, with the fingers of that second hand pressing straight down on the blade. Follow me through this thought experiment:

Rest the blade flat on the stone with the side of the blade touching the stone. The edge is not touching the stone yet. You can tell this easily. But when you press down with your fingers of your second hand, the blade will rock on it's side until the edge comes into contact with the stone. When it touches, you can feel it! On some blades, you can actually hold the blade with the bevel flat, using *just* that second hand. This is for a simple reason: The bevel is flat and the stone is flat. You're just making them touch flat side to flat side.

So let's get more advanced: Move your primary hand wrist until the blade edge seems to be in contact with the stone. Do a stroke or two. Now press down with your second hand fingers *right* on the edge bevel. If you're too low, you'll feel it instantly because the edge will be up off of the stone some small amount. If you're too high, you should be able to feel that too. In fact, you should be able to feel the edge bevel almost "click" into place when you do this. It may be helpful to overlap your finger tips so that they touch the edge bevel *and* the stone at the same time. This can really help you figure out when the bevel is nice and flat on the stone.

I tried to articulate these concepts as the first two secrets of The Seven Secrets Of Sharpening.

When I first felt the edge bevel touching the stone, using my second hand, it was a revelation. Maybe you'll get something out of this if you try it. Good luck.

Brian.

 

[aleforme]

Using the two handed technique (The Japanese Stroke) is key to feeling the bevel on the stone for me. Yes, you can get sound feedback and even "drag" feedback with one hand, through the handle of the blade. You should definitely use this feedback.

But you can get more from your second hand, with the fingers of that second hand pressing straight down on the blade. Follow me through this thought experiment:

Rest the blade flat on the stone with the side of the blade touching the stone. The edge is not touching the stone yet. You can tell this easily. But when you press down with your fingers of your second hand, the blade will rock on it's side until the edge comes into contact with the stone. When it touches, you can feel it! On some blades, you can actually hold the blade with the bevel flat, using *just* that second hand. This is for a simple reason: The bevel is flat and the stone is flat. You're just making them touch flat side to flat side.

So let's get more advanced: Move your primary hand wrist until the blade edge seems to be in contact with the stone. Do a stroke or two. Now press down with your second hand fingers *right* on the edge bevel. If you're too low, you'll feel it instantly because the edge will be up off of the stone some small amount. If you're too high, you should be able to feel that too. In fact, you should be able to feel the edge bevel almost "click" into place when you do this. It may be helpful to overlap your finger tips so that they touch the edge bevel *and* the stone at the same time. This can really help you figure out when the bevel is nice and flat on the stone.

I tried to articulate these concepts as the first two secrets of The Seven Secrets Of Sharpening.

When I first felt the edge bevel touching the stone, using my second hand, it was a revelation. Maybe you'll get something out of this if you try it. Good luck.

Brian.

I have a similar set up used by the OP. What you are suggesting it pretty much how I learned to find the bevel. Just took some time playing around with a cheap knife.

 

[Jamesh Bond]

Thanks guys. Very good info. In a hurry now, but I'll read again thoroughly, and post some responses and questions when I have some time.

Just wanted to say thanks for now.

 

[Jamesh Bond]

When you move to finer stones there is always going to be a drop off in feedback. It will still be there but will just become increasingly faint.

The best trick I have to counter this is two part.

First - always work from the shoulder to the apex. Do not think you can set the edge on the bevel and get best results floating in your margin of mechanical error (I still do this from time to time when in a hurry, but not when I want the best outcome I'm capable of). Is possible, but not very systematic.

By running from the shoulder to the edge you should find you always stay within your target angle. Although in theory you will be making it slightly more acute every time, due to margin of error you will find you simply maintain the target angle better.

Second - as you work, every so often lower the spine for a pass or two so you lightly "bump" the shoulder transition on the stone. This will give you an on the go tactile feedback that is extremely reliable. Just as you have been elevating the spine to get the feel of the apex on the stone (and so make the edge too obtuse), change that out to use the shoulder transition to recalibrate instead.

As you feel it hit, elevate the spine till it just drops off and keep grinding. At some point (with practice) you will find the edge becomes "trapped" between the shoulder and the apex - you'll begin to feel the apex catch/drag almost in the instant you feel the increased feedback from the shoulder begin to fade. I've tried to convey this in some of my videos, but the audible change on recording is not apparent (in a noisy environment it is not apparent in person!) and the tactile sensation does not come across at all. This is one of my best "tricks" and can not only speed up your hand grinding but increase your precision as well. As I'm pounding along I frequently give a slight bump and go every six passes or so - fewer as I get closer to resetting the bevel. At some point every pass feels sticky on the stone and I know without even looking I have a burr and/or am three finger sticky on the edge.

At this stage you have made the most flat edge bevel your mechanics and senses (and patience!) are capable of producing. Using this method and being honest with myself, I can make a near dead flat bevel - most often I use it a bit more loosely just to verify I am still in the neighborhood of my target angle.

On edges with very thin primary grinds and relatively small angle shifts between primary and cutting bevel there will be precious little feedback at the shoulder but it will still feel different from the bevel or apex hitting.

On convex you will need to work behind the apex and sneak up on the apex by slightly elevating the spine till you just feel it catching. On convex the bulk of the work is always going to be just behind the edge, the edge itself only requires a pass or three total to grind a new apex. This is true to a lesser extent on edges with extremely narrow cutting bevels and shallow angle shifts from primary to cutting bevel per above, and partially offsets the reduced tactile markers.

Edit to add:



Ceramics are tricky in that regard, at the fine end they tend to operate with a blend of burnishing and grinding and so are more likely than other means to create a wire edge or have trouble removing the burr. I suspect it is this factor and this media that led CS to develop his burrless plateau method. Is also a reason why microbevels are so popular when using ceramics.

Super light pressure, keep the hone clean as you can, recondition it if its getting old. In my case once I hit the fine/ultrafine ceramics I only use them to create a microbevel most of the time as it takes too much QC/visual inspection to make a clean single bevel edge. If I'm mirroring up the entire edge on ceramics is more of an exercise than for any practical reason and I expect to need extra patience for clean burr removal off the stone.

Thanks a lot.

Ive been using your shoulder technique awhile, and it helps. But I notice I tend to round off the shoulder over time, and I eventually end with a blended shoulder that doesn't give me feedback. What am I doing wrong?

Per ceramics, I take it to mean the ideal way to use them is to microbevel, as I've been doing. Am I interpreting your meaning correctly?

Also, I'm referring to Spyderco's medium and fine grit regarding mine. Seems a few responses were under the assumption I was using super fine stuff.

Edit: Who is CS? And how does one recondition ceramics?

Thx.

 

[Jamesh Bond]

This is actually about 70% of what you're looking for, at least; more so, as that sense becomes more developed. I'd suggest taking some time to cultivate that sense of the edge 'biting' into the hone. Focus on nothing but that objective, and don't allow yourself to be distracted by anything else. Experiment with your hold on the knife and hone (if you're holding the hone), and see how that 'feel' changes with variations in hold and grip (pressure, varying areas of contact on the fingertips, etc). I've found that keeping the grip as light as possible, but still firm enough to maintain control, is better for enhancing that feedback felt through the fingertips. Also focus on finding a hold on the knife that makes positioning the angle more natural and 'automatic' for your hands, with less deliberate, conscious intervention. Calibrate that hold by paying attention to the edge-biting sensation while doing so, and try to set it so the slightest raising of the angle from that hold will be immediately felt. While doing all these things, it's also helpful to mark the edge with a Sharpie and see how all these changes in hold, grip pressure, etc are affecting where the ink comes off the bevels. Use a good, well-lighted magnifier (I'd recommend 10X or better) to look for that.

If you're not already doing so, in my own use of small hones, I've also felt it advantageous to hold the hone in one hand while holding the knife in the other, as it effectively gives you twice the feedback, coming from both hands. Focus on the same objectives as above, in holding the hone: light grip, natural & comfortable hold in the hand which sets the angle more automatically, etc.

All this is only a starting point. But, hopefully it'll be enough to trigger sort of an 'Aha!' moment for you. It's what made the difference for me.


David

Ive learned so much from you over time. Already been doing all this! It's all helped immensely. I'm actually thinking doing this edge biting thing, but doing it WRONG is what screwed me. I'll give it a shot now doing it right. I now understand your meaning as find the bite point, then back off till just before that point (as with stropping). Is this correct?

I've tried using my Spyderco stones as benchstones, but I too have found holding the hone in one hand, and blade in the other, is far easier for me. Same with my DMT, a diafold.

I like method because it let's me easily see my angle. I just look down at my work with my knife pointed at up at me. Very intuitive.

My 2 handed technique works better with my Norton bench stone. And obviously bigger blades.

Thanks man!

 

[Jamesh Bond]

I'm not sure if this will be helpful. I use baby oil on my Spyderco UF, and the' 'vacuum' effect felt when bevel is flat on the stone helps me tremendously. Martin & David are spot on, they are my gurus and the advices become my guide in my sharpening journey.

Good luck!

Ive actually noticed this effect. using soapy water on my DMT, and oil on my Norton. Good visual feedback too, watching the swarf in front of the blade. I actually had boiled out the oil from my Norton until one of you guys here (sorry, can't remember which one) told me to use oil for better feedback a long time ago.

I had thought about trying it on the ceramics. Now I know I should!

Thx Chris.

 

[Jamesh Bond]

Using the two handed technique (The Japanese Stroke) is key to feeling the bevel on the stone for me. Yes, you can get sound feedback and even "drag" feedback with one hand, through the handle of the blade. You should definitely use this feedback.

But you can get more from your second hand, with the fingers of that second hand pressing straight down on the blade. Follow me through this thought experiment:

Rest the blade flat on the stone with the side of the blade touching the stone. The edge is not touching the stone yet. You can tell this easily. But when you press down with your fingers of your second hand, the blade will rock on it's side until the edge comes into contact with the stone. When it touches, you can feel it! On some blades, you can actually hold the blade with the bevel flat, using *just* that second hand. This is for a simple reason: The bevel is flat and the stone is flat. You're just making them touch flat side to flat side.

So let's get more advanced: Move your primary hand wrist until the blade edge seems to be in contact with the stone. Do a stroke or two. Now press down with your second hand fingers *right* on the edge bevel. If you're too low, you'll feel it instantly because the edge will be up off of the stone some small amount. If you're too high, you should be able to feel that too. In fact, you should be able to feel the edge bevel almost "click" into place when you do this. It may be helpful to overlap your finger tips so that they touch the edge bevel *and* the stone at the same time. This can really help you figure out when the bevel is nice and flat on the stone.

I tried to articulate these concepts as the first two secrets of The Seven Secrets Of Sharpening.

When I first felt the edge bevel touching the stone, using my second hand, it was a revelation. Maybe you'll get something out of this if you try it. Good luck.

Brian.

Most of my sharpening has been on my EDC knives, as that's mostly the size I use. However, I'm now finding the time and interest to utilize my bigger blades, so I'm grateful for the review of bench techniques.

Thank you for that link as well. I've never seen that before. Now I have some new reading to do.

Much obliged, Brian. Take care.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

CS is mr. Stamp. He asserted that removing fatigued metal first before sharpening is useful and one shouldn't form a burr.
I only have UF, but I believe if oil helps on UF, it should for at least F. After DMT EE, progressing to F & UF is doable.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Ive learned so much from you over time. Already been doing all this! It's all helped immensely. I'm actually thinking doing this edge biting thing, but doing it WRONG is what screwed me. I'll give it a shot now doing it right. I now understand your meaning as find the bite point, then back off till just before that point (as with stropping). Is this correct?

I've tried using my Spyderco stones as benchstones, but I too have found holding the hone in one hand, and blade in the other, is far easier for me. Same with my DMT, a diafold.

I like method because it let's me easily see my angle. I just look down at my work with my knife pointed at up at me. Very intuitive.

My 2 handed technique works better with my Norton bench stone. And obviously bigger blades.

Thanks man!

Regarding finding that 'bite' point, it also helps to start fairly low, making contact first at the shoulder, then 'sneak up' on the apex by gently rolling the blade forward until you just begin to feel the apex starting to catch. For me, doing this with a very light touch, and very gently gripping the handle with the pads of my fingers, makes it much easier for me to feel that first 'biting' contact at the apex. (Edited to add: A handful of featherlight passes done this way makes it easy to calibrate the hold, in order to set & maintain the angle, after which it's very consistent and automatic, with no danger of rounding the apex when done with that very light touch.) For me personally, that was a major breakthrough in finally being able to repeatably find and hold the correct angle. I first learned it in using the knife in one hand, and hone in the other; but I've also noticed it subsequently became automatic when I sharpened with a stone on the bench as well.


David

 

[HeavyHanded]

Thanks a lot.

Ive been using your shoulder technique awhile, and it helps. But I notice I tend to round off the shoulder over time, and I eventually end with a blended shoulder that doesn't give me feedback. What am I doing wrong?

Per ceramics, I take it to mean the ideal way to use them is to microbevel, as I've been doing. Am I interpreting your meaning correctly?

Also, I'm referring to Spyderco's medium and fine grit regarding mine. Seems a few responses were under the assumption I was using super fine stuff.

Edit: Who is CS? And how does one recondition ceramics?

Thx.

The old "shoulder bump" method needs to be a fairly subtle move - just a slight drop and go of the spine. Any evidence of it should be erased as you go. Too much rounding and you not only lose the reference point for future work but you negatively effect the job at hand.

I began using this when working on other folks knives and wanted a real fast way to set the edge to what they had, rather than my pre-programmed 28 inclusive. I'd do a few very light exploratory passes elevating the spine and once I felt the edge begin to catch I'd lower the spine till the shoulder catches. I now have the range that defines my dull edge. Is a natural extension to use it as you go, but avoid the edge bump as it rounds the apex - just a slight drop of the spine for a light pass, half a pass, third of a pass etc and back up. Dead on the bevel has the least feedback. You can also "look" for unintended sensations of edge or shoulder dragging to let you know where on the edge you're getting sloppy - very useful when working pronounced bellies, tips, recurves, where total contact area is at its smallest.

More practice on the stones is also needed any time you make a switch to different media, best to have some knives around that get taken out for this purpose and not your good stuff.

The Spyderco Medium will begin to speak to you just like the Norton. You need to examine what it is you're using (sense-wise) that clues you in on the Norton and DMT, and look for it on the ceramics. You must already be using tactile feedback but haven't analyzed it yet.

...and can usually tell if I'm too high or low if the feeling or sound changes

As you go to finer abrasives the tactile feedback drops off - is relative to abrasive size and how deep it cuts the steel - but is still present.

Another factor and another reason I religiously reference to the shoulder, the margin of error is relative to the abrasive. You can have an optically flat edge that has a bunch of convexity to it under the scratch pattern. As you work on it with finer abrasives, the lower density regions at the shoulder and edge will grind away first, revealing the rounded bevel. If you don't pick a point to reference to, eliminating that rounded geometry will be extremely difficult, hinge entirely on muscle memory and you'll have to do a lot more grinding to flatten the edge again. Here's the diagram I use to illustrate the concept:

1) is the abraded region
2) shows the range of variation one can have without any real change in tactile feedback. the region of highest density is dead smack in the middle.
3) is the funhouse side-view of these paths
4) is what happens when you start grinding away - the low density regions grind off first, practically guaranteeing you wind up with more curvature than you wanted.

Yes, CS is Cliff Stamp. He espouses a technique that avoids as much as possible the formation of a burr when sharpening - the claim is that sharpening with a burr is detrimental. My speculation is that a lot of work on ceramics will have one looking for ways to avoid the burr as they are so temperamental when it comes to removing them - the stones are super hard and don't have the same potential of other abrasive surfaces. Is a plus and a minus, you can make some real nice, precise edges off them but IMHO tend to take more QC than other types of stones to do so.

As ceramics wear they occasionally need to be reconditioned. I highly doubt this is happening to you, it takes a long time to become a factor. They can be reconditioned by texturing them on a diamond plate of appropriate grit. The Medium might never need this, but have heard of the fine and UF benefiting.

 

[Steel_Drake]

You've received a bunch of good advice on this thread already, so I will only chime in to add a suggestion that you try to remove the burr formed on the sintered ceramic stones by make 1-2 very very light alternating edge-leading only passes at ~40-45 degrees starting with the side opposite to the side you were last working on the stone to try and shear off the burr without damaging the apex.

Then make 5-10 ultra light alternating edge-leading only passes at the angle you were originally sharpening at to remove the tiny microbevel created when you sheared off the burr.

I've had consistently good success using this burr removal technique on Spyderco sintered ceramic abrasives specifically, so I know from experience it can be quite effective.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

Martin, David,

Hearing these being repeated is always good as reminder to me.

I clean my UF with pencil eraser. Quite good though not as good as the barkeeper being mentioned. Can't find any around here.
Keeping stone clean is always a good thing.

Steel Drake,

Good tips. I'm going to try that.

Jamesh,

Also I remember having oil helps also 'floating' the bevel, and prevent micro chipping for steel like ZDP.

 

[Steel_Drake]

Chris and Jamesh,

I made a short video demonstrating the method I use for shearing off a burr using a Spyderco M benchstone:

[video=youtube;oRmcQ-MqbBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRmcQ-MqbBE[/video]

 

[bgentry]

Nice effective demonstration of a favorite deburring technique of mine. I don't think the other techniques are "silly" as you say. But I think this technique is perhaps the best one I've personally tried. It's simple, it's super effective, and it's relatively easy to learn. Nice job.

Brian.

 

[Steel_Drake]

Nice effective demonstration of a favorite deburring technique of mine. I don't think the other techniques are "silly" as you say. But I think this technique is perhaps the best one I've personally tried. It's simple, it's super effective, and it's relatively easy to learn. Nice job.

Brian.

Thanks. Perhaps the "silly" descriptor was a bit strong, but I just don't see why someone would risk severely damaging the apex by ripping off a burr in a felt block, wood block, or cork when you could cut it off without such a risk of apex damage.