Fellow CRK Owners - Shirogorov or Arno Bernard?

Officer's Match said:
I definitely need to try an IMamba, they look great.

I've had a few Shiro's and there is one in particular that really speaks to me: F95NL. It is a "lower" 1-Bear model (simple blade grind, single row bearings, "only" S30v), and I much prefer it to the fancier models. SRBS definitely feel better to me than MRBS, and the FFG blade with distal taper blade is pure performance (under 13 thousandths behind the edge). The machining is dead perfect - truly CRK level. I actually prefer the solid scale interior over the fancier models intricate skeletonizing (the recess for the micarta inlay accomplishes the exact same weight savings) - definitely more CRK-like.

The design of course looks a lot different than the elegantly conservative CRK approach, but I still see it as a modern day take on a flipper design that retains the "class" I associate with Chris Reeve - as if a 35 year younger Chris embarked on folders midway into the "flipper era". Every machining detail is purposeful, functional. None of it (on this NL model) is embellishment for the sake of show. The bevels of the scales are specifically designed for comfort and grip, as well as smoothness in (and out) of pocket. I see design genius in the overall shape: a full 4" of usable blade in a handle that carries "smaller" than my (beloved) Large Inkosi. And I think the pocketclip design is the best I have ever used - it's "folded wing" design glides smoothly in and out of pocket while providing very secure retention. And the profile is so flat to the pocket it is extremely "none snaggy".

Sorry, I think I might have gotten a bit carried away... I have mostly moved on from flippers, but this knife to me is very special.

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Thank you for sharing this. That one is definitely too big for my tastes, but it's a great looking knife. What is it you like about the single row of bearings over the multi one?
 
TreesNoDummy said:
Thank you for sharing this. That one is definitely too big for my tastes, but it's a great looking knife. What is it you like about the single row of bearings over the multi one?
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Of the two SRBS and two MRBS I've had, both SRBS versions had noticeably better action (for my taste at least). I have a buddy here locally who has a couple higher end Shirogorov's and he too likes my "Merlot Shiro" better than his action-wise.
 
Out of the three shiros I've fondled, the SRBS (single row bearing) have been the quickest action and rather smooth on all accounts.

The roller bearing one I was able to fondle almost had me thinking it was on washers but a bit quicker. And the MRBS was meh.. didn't feel any better or worse than the SRBS.
 
Officer's Match said:
Of the two SRBS and two MRBS I've had, both SRBS versions had noticeably better action (for my taste at least). I have a buddy here locally who has a couple higher end Shirogorov's and he too likes my "Merlot Shiro" better than his action-wise.
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Is the MRBS too much like a guillotine? Part of me wonders if it's overkill as compared to the action CRK owners are accustomed to.
 
TreesNoDummy said:
Is the MRBS too much like a guillotine? Part of me wonders if it's overkill as compared to the action CRK owners are accustomed to.
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Actually I think your description rather nails it. I think roller bearings are a mechanical mistake: it would seem to me a cylinder arrayed radially from the pivot is forced to "slide" on the blade rather than roll, as the outside must travel farther than the inside. With MRBS, I think more individual point of contact add up to more friction, and that is how I would describe the difference. To my senses, the SRBS is the "cleanest" feeling action on a Shirogorov. On the specimens I've had, the SRBS is actually more 'drop-shutty' than the MRBS, but since the MRBS takes a bit more oomph to start the blade moving, I can get a little choppie. The F95NL I posted is the best action I've ever encountered on a flipper (honorable mention to the CKF MILK).
 
I had had Shirogorov F95 T but I sold it because the blade form is a tad too flat and simple. It reminds me kitchen knives. I think Arno Bernard looks more interesting.
 
I looked at the AB website and I was surprised at the prices. I thought they would be higher. I am not familiar with their blade steel. Does it hold a good edge and easy to sharpen?
 
jjg6319 said:
I looked at the AB website and I was surprised at the prices. I thought they would be higher. I am not familiar with their blade steel. Does it hold a good edge and easy to sharpen?
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TL;DR Knives are awesome and many of us have a knife spending problem. CRK is king and the OG of quality, AB and Shiro each do different things for different people. I like Shiro more than Arno Bernard

This gets me, especially in the CRK arena. I keep having this talk and no one replies... Maybe it's me.

When CRK was running the s30v at lower hardness (58-59hrc) people complained a lot about poor edge holding. The stubborn old Reeve himself upped the hardness a point or two (59-60 hrc I think). Now they are doing magnacut like 63-64. Clearly the steels have improved all while the hardness has gone up.

AB knives are rwl at 59hrc... I am no steel snob, most my knives are 59-60 s35vn 21's and that's great. The AB knives use such a basic steel and a rather mushy heat treat at that. But but... custom makers use it and um... corrosion or maybe sharpening something.. Uh huh.

I was lucky enough to snag a few lefty shirogorovs and I love them. The steel is nicely heat treated m390 that's also used by custom makers and is also easy to sharpen too!

I like the looks of the AB bro knives, but that's about it. The bearings (shiro irony) don't look fun as they are fully free cageless. Meh steel and difficulty with foreign makers isn't fun either.

All three makers are superior and all one should ever want. We are so spoiled in the modern age.
 
Well - I caved. I looked into the neon more, and it turns out that the nl fits what I want. I have one on it's way, and the preorder on the imamba still out there. I can decide for myself, or keep both.
 
I don’t own any flippers but they are pretty neat. Just like autos are neat. I just don’t like the idea of a knife with bearings. I’m sure I’d gunk it up.

I like the look of the iMamba
 
TreesNoDummy said:
There are two retailers that sell them, and both have knives in stock right now.
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Neither has much, just a number of Quantum Ursus NL's, a good knife if you like the style --I have one--and the first model in Shiro's new more basic Ursus line which feature SRBS and Cromax PM blade steel.

I'm with Officer's Match Officer's Match when it comes to SRBS vs MRBS as the action of the former is snappier and freer than the latter. However, of my two F95's, one in each bearing configuration, I don't find my MRBS to be more drop-shut than the other, nor is it choppier. It's actually a tad smoother. For me, the thing with MRBS is that it perhaps provides more lateral stability/strength than the single row configuration.

The action on all my BB Shiro's depends more on lube, maintenance, tuning, and simply wearing in--the more they're used, the freer they become--and not on the number of rows. I've got two Shiro's on washers too and the action on one--the Hati frame lock--evokes a CRK if it were a flipper. The other is a BMK-style sliding bar lock knife and not comparable. I'm not a big fan of roller bearings--I have them on my most expensive and prized Shiro, which is far from my best flipper--and agree with OM that they seem conceptually flawed. I think we've had that discussion somewhere over at The Bears' Den.

Anyway, I've got nine CRKs and nine Shiros. They're all excellent knives, the two makers' output couldn't be much more different, and I appreciate both for what they are. I like both flat and hollow grinds, washers and BBs, flippers and thumb studs.

I've got one AB iMamba, a PJ flipper on bearings. I like it a lot, and it is quite reminiscent of CRK design language. It's kinda like the missing mid-sized Sebenza, though being a big knife kinda guy, my large CRKs (all but my Mnandi) seem sorta mid-sized to me. The iMamba's just a bit bigger than my Shiro NeOn, which is a good small-sized knife for me. I sold my only small Sebenza coz it was just, well, too small.

Lastly, when it comes to ball bearing systems, I have no problem with loose bearings. They're a bit more of a pain to deal with when maintaining, but it's no big deal to me--I just try to stay calm, go slowly, and be kinda Zen about it. Shiro BBs are free in open cages, which seems a good mid-way system for reduced friction between fully caged bearings and completely free in races like the iMamba's IKBS style, though I've wondered if two adjacent free bearings could bind against each other if touching and end up sliding instead of rolling. Perhaps a thought for another day....
 
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