Fellow CRK Owners - Shirogorov or Arno Bernard?

[Danny Linguini]

Not a huge Shiro fan … they’re nice knives, but just not for me. Ditto Olamic and Koenig and most of the other more exclusive brands. I do like several of the Arno’s, but I ended up going with CRK, because a couple of choices simply appeal to me more than the others. I did recently get a couple of ZTs (0990 and 0939GKCF), so I guess I could say that’s my other ‘nicer’ brand, but I really got those more out of curiosity than anything else. While they’re very nice knives, my Mnandi and small Inkosi were pretty much my grails that I never thought I’d actually own. I honestly have no desire to pursue anything else in this area of the market; in fact there’s nothing else at all on my radar right now, which I haven’t been able to say in quite some time. If anything, I’ll be working on restoring my cheapskate credentials… can I even own a CRK and still call myself a cheapskate??? Anyway, even that won’t be happening for awhile.

 

[norcalAF]

Not a huge Shiro fan … they’re nice knives, but just not for me. Ditto Olamic and Koenig and most of the other more exclusive brands. I do like several of the Arno’s, but I ended up going with CRK, because a couple of choices simply appeal to me more than the others. I did recently get a couple of ZTs (0990 and 0939GKCF), so I guess I could say that’s my other ‘nicer’ brand, but I really got those more out of curiosity than anything else. While they’re very nice knives, my Mnandi and small Inkosi were pretty much my grails that I never thought I’d actually own. I honestly have no desire to pursue anything else in this area of the market; in fact there’s nothing else at all on my radar right now, which I haven’t been able to say in quite some time. If anything, I’ll be working on restoring my cheapskate credentials… can I even own a CRK and still call myself a cheapskate??? Anyway, even that won’t be happening for awhile.

Sounds like you're ready for SHF and LG

 

[WedgeAntilles]

Got my first Shiro today. It's a lefty ne0n. I think it's a keeper. About the size of what a medium Sebenza should be, but thinner and light, and a flipper of course. I like the look of AB, but no lefty models yet.

 

[Jacques Mi]

I got an Arno Bernard iMamba on PB washers a few weeks back and have been carrying it since then. It feels great in hand, is unnoticeable in the pocket and the overall feel is that it's a strong knife. Taking it apart and putting it back together is not as much of a breezes as with a Sebenza (I have not but 31 Sebenzas from CRK) - the iMamba has more parts and you need two different tools. The action is about as buttery as with a worn in Sebenza.
I have to say that the Sebenza IS the superior knife of the two. It's build of less parts, slimmer profile and it feels just a tad more sturdy.

 

[pholder]

I got an Arno Bernard iMamba on PB washers a few weeks back and have been carrying it since then. It feels great in hand, is unnoticeable in the pocket and the overall feel is that it's a strong knife. Taking it apart and putting it back together is not as much of a breezes as with a Sebenza (I have not but 31 Sebenzas from CRK) - the iMamba has more parts and you need two different tools. The action is about as buttery as with a worn in Sebenza.
I have to say that the Sebenza IS the superior knife of the two. It's build of less parts, slimmer profile and it feels just a tad more sturdy.

I respect your opinion on both knives. I on the other hand am the opposite. I have disassembled both and find that the Imamba re-assembles much easier, mine is on caged bearings. I am also so impressed with both, the tolerance, fit and finish on both are amazing and speak to their profession. For me, I prefer the Imamba one notch above the Sebenza. Hardest part was worrying about the finish on the Imamba. I’ve used it hard on wood, and other materials and it is far more durable than I expected. It’s thinner at the edge so I find it slices better. These are my observations and opinions of course. Thanks for listening, Troy

 

[crk1984]

Neither has much, just a number of Quantum Ursus NL's, a good knife if you like the style --I have one--and the first model in Shiro's new more basic Ursus line which feature SRBS and Cromax PM blade steel.

I'm with Officer's Match when it comes to SRBS vs MRBS as the action of the former is snappier and freer than the latter. However, of my two F95's, one in each bearing configuration, I don't find my MRBS to be more drop-shut than the other, nor is it choppier. It's actually a tad smoother. For me, the thing with MRBS is that it perhaps provides more lateral stability/strength than the single row configuration.

The action on all my BB Shiro's depends more on lube, maintenance, tuning, and simply wearing in--the more they're used, the freer they become--and not on the number of rows. I've got two Shiro's on washers too and the action on one--the Hati frame lock--evokes a CRK if it were a flipper. The other is a BMK-style sliding bar lock knife and not comparable. I'm not a big fan of roller bearings--I have them on my most expensive and prized Shiro, which is far from my best flipper--and agree with OM that they seem conceptually flawed. I think we've had that discussion somewhere over at The Bears' Den.

Anyway, I've got nine CRKs and nine Shiros. They're all excellent knives, the two makers' output couldn't be much more different, and I appreciate both for what they are. I like both flat and hollow grinds, washers and BBs, flippers and thumb studs.

I've got one AB iMamba, a PJ flipper on bearings. I like it a lot, and it is quite reminiscent of CRK design language. It's kinda like the missing mid-sized Sebenza, though being a big knife kinda guy, my large CRKs (all but my Mnandi) seem sorta mid-sized to me. The iMamba's just a bit bigger than my Shiro NeOn, which is a good small-sized knife for me. I sold my only small Sebenza coz it was just, well, too small.

Lastly, when it comes to ball bearing systems, I have no problem with loose bearings. They're a bit more of a pain to deal with when maintaining, but it's no big deal to me--I just try to stay calm, go slowly, and be kinda Zen about it. Shiro BBs are free in open cages, which seems a good mid-way system for reduced friction between fully caged bearings and completely free in races like the iMamba's IKBS style, though I've wondered if two adjacent free bearings could bind against each other if touching and end up sliding instead of rolling. Perhaps a thought for another day....

Imambas havent been free bearings for a few years at this point. They use skiffs. You also have the option of washers, as well as flipper, no flipper, and nail knick or an open hole. All for same price. I will say i have both bearing styles and the loose bearing model i have has better action than the skiffs (skiff version is much newer and less used, so not really fair)

Actually I think your description rather nails it. I think roller bearings are a mechanical mistake: it would seem to me a cylinder arrayed radially from the pivot is forced to "slide" on the blade rather than roll, as the outside must travel farther than the inside. With MRBS, I think more individual point of contact add up to more friction, and that is how I would describe the difference. To my senses, the SRBS is the "cleanest" feeling action on a Shirogorov. On the specimens I've had, the SRBS is actually more 'drop-shutty' than the MRBS, but since the MRBS takes a bit more oomph to start the blade moving, I can get a little choppie. The F95NL I posted is the best action I've ever encountered on a flipper (honorable mention to the CKF MILK).

Roller bearings are very fine on knives. Im sorry the ones youve tried werent done well. Great lateral support as well. Roller bearings are widely used in industrial settings. If its good enough for 6 figure machines its fine on knives. I will say it seems more bragging rights than anything. I have 3 knives with rollers (all shiro).

Not a bad thing if the goal is to cut things (IMHO).

Very true.

TL;DR Knives are awesome and many of us have a knife spending problem. CRK is king and the OG of quality, AB and Shiro each do different things for different people. I like Shiro more than Arno Bernard

This gets me, especially in the CRK arena. I keep having this talk and no one replies... Maybe it's me.

When CRK was running the s30v at lower hardness (58-59hrc) people complained a lot about poor edge holding. The stubborn old Reeve himself upped the hardness a point or two (59-60 hrc I think). Now they are doing magnacut like 63-64. Clearly the steels have improved all while the hardness has gone up.

AB knives are rwl at 59hrc... I am no steel snob, most my knives are 59-60 s35vn 21's and that's great. The AB knives use such a basic steel and a rather mushy heat treat at that. But but... custom makers use it and um... corrosion or maybe sharpening something.. Uh huh.

I was lucky enough to snag a few lefty shirogorovs and I love them. The steel is nicely heat treated m390 that's also used by custom makers and is also easy to sharpen too!

I like the looks of the AB bro knives, but that's about it. The bearings (shiro irony) don't look fun as they are fully free cageless. Meh steel and difficulty with foreign makers isn't fun either.

All three makers are superior and all one should ever want. We are so spoiled in the modern age.

Ya i dunno bout all that, but my imambas make crk "quality" seem like a gas station knife. Also, as mentioned above- AB hasnt used free bearings in several years, and thats not an issue even if they are if you are competent. If you arent, you shouldnt take knives apart... or opt for the (free) washers. If you havent owned or even used an AB your supposed thoughts on the steel are.. well, worth what we pay for them. It is fantastic in daily use (i carry my first gen Imamba daily. I dont do dumb crap like baton with any folding knife, so cant speak on that. I dont play in hypothetic fantasy scenarios.) I have several crks, they are fine knives. ABs are absolutely better in my experience. Fitment better, action better, cutting geometry better. Service better.

I'm not part of the flipper craze; so I guess I'd be leaving toward Arno Bernard

Just because you dont like something, that doesnt make it a "craze".

I don’t own any flippers but they are pretty neat. Just like autos are neat. I just don’t like the idea of a knife with bearings. I’m sure I’d gunk it up.

I like the look of the iMamba

Itd be hard to gunk up a bearing knife to the point that it wont function, but if you did a washer knife would react the EXACT same. Both shiro and AB can be found on washers, if you insist on that style of pivot (the Shiro would be used)

Shirogorov knives are still available on the USA market?

Never stopped. I just ordered scales for a shiro from russia as well, they came fine. We arent blocking mail from there. Even if we did, the used market is loaded with them.

I own all 3 brands. AB is my favorite, followed by Shiro. Crk is an incredibly distant 3rd. All 2 really offer vastly different knives, and arent directly comparable, in my experience. (The only smallish shiro i know of is the neon, which is my absolute least favorite model). People seem to think the Imamba is a "medium sebenza" which is frankly, stupid. Its functionally the same size as a large sebenza, and carries as such.

 

[crk1984]

I got an Arno Bernard iMamba on PB washers a few weeks back and have been carrying it since then. It feels great in hand, is unnoticeable in the pocket and the overall feel is that it's a strong knife. Taking it apart and putting it back together is not as much of a breezes as with a Sebenza (I have not but 31 Sebenzas from CRK) - the iMamba has more parts and you need two different tools. The action is about as buttery as with a worn in Sebenza.
I have to say that the Sebenza IS the superior knife of the two. It's build of less parts, slimmer profile and it feels just a tad more sturdy.

Were going to absolutely disagree with that. My finding is literally the exact opposite in terms of which is superior (im certainly aware this wont be the popular opinion in this specific subforum) i was immensely glad to be rid of my small sebenza, as it was comically tiny. The large has been relegated to beater as i find it wholly unimpressive overall.

 

[hhmoore]

C crk1984 fair enough, since it's not likely to be shortlived; but the rest of the definition is accurate enough...and that comment was almost a year old so I'm not worried about looking for a better term.

 

[Kettleman]

C crk1984 will you be done trolling the CRK sub soon? You have made it abundantly clear you are not a fan of the knives, nor the people who are it seems. I was going to say go find the forum with people and knives you like, but in reading thru your posts, one could be lead to believe they don’t exist. We like it calm and quiet around these parts so give us a break, please?

 

[Officer's Match]

Regarding my earlier post about roller bearings, it was a theoretical opinion. I later had an F3 that had aftermarket (Dept13) roller bearings, and it had absolutely incredible action. Much better than the MRBS F3 and F95 specimens I've had. I still find the SRBS by Shiro to be the action I like best, but the RBS on that particular F3 was a really amazing setup.

As for crk1984's opinion that AB has superior quality vs Chris Reeve Knives, well, I really don't see that as an opinion that will convince a large percentage of folks with the requisite knowledge of the subject matter (I am far from a "steel snob", but AB will have to up their game substantially for me to put them head-to-head with CRK). To each his/her own however.

 

[BTTLBRN]

C crk1984 will you be done trolling the CRK sub soon? You have made it abundantly clear you are not a fan of the knives, nor the people who are it seems. I was going to say go find the forum with people and knives you like, but in reading thru your posts, one could be lead to believe they don’t exist. We like it calm and quiet around these parts so give us a break, please?

Odd choice for a username however?!

 

[ChazzyP]

Thanks for posting that, Kettleman . You saved me from doing the same while trying not to be contentious. While I could easily debate some factoids there--such when iMamba's changed to Skiff (Skiff-style?) bearings--or opinions, such as misunderstanding Officer's Match 's conceptual point regarding roller bearings (something the two of us have discussed more than once), I'd just as soon not get into it and await a haughty and dismissive reply.

Odd choice indeed, BTTLBRN . There must be another old thread, such as CRK's Suck, somewhere for haters to post in.

...and here I said I wasn't gonna do that....

 

[Kettleman]

Thanks for posting that, Kettleman . You saved me from doing the same while trying not to be contentious. While I could easily debate some factoids there--such when iMamba's changed to Skiff (Skiff-style?) bearings--or opinions, such as misunderstanding Officer's Match 's conceptual point regarding roller bearings (something the two of us have discussed more than once), I'd just as soon not get into it and await a haughty and dismissive reply.

Odd choice indeed, BTTLBRN . There must be another old thread, such as CRK's Suck, somewhere for haters to post in.

...and here I said I wasn't gonna do that....

I was thinking of you as I worded that!

 

[ChazzyP]

I was thinking of you as I worded that!

You did very well, my friend!

BTW, it's entirely possible to fully appreciate CRK's, Shiro's, and AB's without classifying any maker's work as better than another--a state to which I can most heartily testify.

 

[Chowser]

I'm not sure how I missed this thread for so long, but I'll add my 2 cents as well.

Have not owned a Shirogorov but do have a small 21 and an early iMamba. The 21 has been a great knife for me for all the reasons that 21s are so well regarded. In the iMamba, you can see the Reeve influence. Mine has a fairly soft detent but if you are positive with the flipper tab, everything is fine. Action is nice - smooth and quiet. Not a lot of fuss really, and the pocket clip works really well for me. You can flick the blade on the fuller as well and the action feels tuned for that to me. If I were gonna buy another iMamba, I'd go with the tab delete.

I use the 21 and iMamba pretty often, puttering in the shop and throughout my daily life, and I really like having both. I don't mind sharpening and maintaining as needed.

The iMamba is the most expensive folder I have ever owned, and I thought on it for some time before buying. No regrets!

 

[crk1984]

I see it has choices for bronze washers or bearings. Being CRK fans, are people going for washers on the iMamba? I don’t have interest in a flipper, and bearings seems like they would be a maintenance hassle, but this is a fine looking knife.

Caged bearings are no more a hassle than washers (arno has used skiffs for a long time, as well as significantly strengthened the detent). They will include both for no charge when ordering, as well as offer flipper, no flipper, thumb knick or thumb hole. Year old post, but still a good one, and worth noting. I own 2 Arno Bernanrd imambas, 7 crks, and 3 shiros now. The neon isnt even close to the same league as the AB, although it is notably better than any crk.. but its too small. I bought crks before handling the abs and the shiros, now i regret wasting the money on crks, as im extremely dissapointed every time i pick one up now. They feel gas station when comparing to either of the other 2 options. I cant agree the abs are a "medium" sebenza, they are functionally the same size. Just better build and ergos.

 

[Jacques Mi]

I'd be happy to take your CRKs C crk1984 ... for gas station knife prices.

 

[Kettleman]

EDIT: Nevermind…My friend R rishma is right once again.

Thank you.

 

[rishma]

Don’t engage, my friend.