Ferro Rod vs. Misch Metal???

Lots of people have weighed in on this, guess it my turn.
Mischmetal is literally a “mixture” of metals. Carl Auer Welsbach, (Baron von Welsbach) discovered this mixture in 1903 – hence the use of the German “Misch.”
ALL ferro-(Ferrocerium) rods are a type of Mischmetal. Ferro rods are just one of many formulas of mischmetal. The general formula for Mischmetal is...
Cerium: 50%
Lanthanum 24%
Neodymium 3%
Praseodymium 3%
This formula may be altered to extremes of one or several components but they are all types of Mischmetal.
Ferrocerium is a Mischmetal that has Iron Oxide 20% and Magnesium Oxide 2% added to the formula to help it ignite at a lower temperature, roughly 160deg. The benefit of igniting at a lower temp is that ferro rods are easier to strike. The benefit of other Mischmetal alloys, such as those from goinggear.com, is that the sparks burn hotter and longer. Different Mischmetals are made to enhance different properties, similarly to steels.
All Ferrocerium is Mischmetal, but not all Mischmetal is Ferrocerium
 
markksr said:
I'm not 100% certain, but I, too, believe that this is correct.

It's also worth noting that the owner of this site (storl) supports Bladeforums with a dealer membership. :thumbup:
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Hopefully then Storl will chime in here and give us his knowledge of the products. Of course I'd like to make purchases from him; yet I want the best one for my money which seems to be the Rat Steel one at the moment.
 
Md 25v said:
Lots of people have weighed in on this, guess it my turn.
Mischmetal is literally a “mixture” of metals. Carl Auer Welsbach, (Baron von Welsbach) discovered this mixture in 1903 – hence the use of the German “Misch.”[SNIP]
All Ferrocerium is Mischmetal, but not all Mischmetal is Ferrocerium
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Hot diggity! That makes it twice that I've been correct in the past 12 months! I'm on a roll! :D

Stitchawl
 
The goinggear rods I got the other day are definitely the hard variety.

If you don't scrape too hard and fast, you tend to get little curls of the stuff; just like scraping a magnesium block.

It takes a good hard and fast scrape to ignite, and then it goes off sort of like sparklers - lots of crackling and popping and bits jump around all over the place. It didn't burn as a hot molten glob like my blastmatch or other rods; rather spitting out sparks and hopping about.

Md 25v, good techy info there, thanks!
 
Trace Rinaldi said:
The ones from USAknifemaker are different than regular ferro rods I have used.. They throw sparks and small burning embers that remain lit much longer than the usual sparks.
They say they are harder to use, but in my experience they are just as easy if not easier to really get some sparks and burning embers to happen.
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tonym said:
Those are trhe ones. He calls them the big stick. 3/8ths thick and 5" long.
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So based on this I ordered "the big stick" from USA Knifemakers (along with some other stuff...great service) to try for myself.

After striking a couple of other rod's I tried the big stick. It took me maybe four or five strikes and there was no doubt the new rod was throwing far more and far hotter sparks......thanks all for the great tip....
 
1Tracker said:
Hopefully then Storl will chime in here and give us his knowledge of the products. Of course I'd like to make purchases from him; yet I want the best one for my money which seems to be the Rat Steel one at the moment.
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I was wondering why my nose was itching...

Ferrocerium and misch metal are referring to the same thing. In fact, the alloy is sometimes called ferrocerium misch metal. Mischmetall comes from German, meaning "mixed metal" and is referring in the modern sense to a mixture of rare earth metals.

The rods I carry are a mixture of iron, magnesium, and misch metal. As far as I know, the ones in the RAT product are the same thing, albeit in a fancier package. :)

The misch metal rods are different from some of the older versions of firesteels in that the rare earth metals will become a molten glob when struck and ignited, so you have much longer lasting sparks. They literally bounce on the ground if you are standing up and striking the firesteel. I have accidentally lit tinder on fire while standing up and playing with the firesteel, so you have to be careful with these thing when practicing or demonstrating their use to other people.

You can even scrape the rods slowly like a mag bar to produce a pile of shavings that will ignite when you scrape faster to produce sparks. I've never really needed to do this, but it can be done.
 
I gotta drag this one back up to the top. I started playing with mine last night, and some of my larger ferroceriums are really giving me trouble. Once I got past the surface a ways, every 5 or so strikes gives me a spark. The rest scrape off shavings. Once the shavings catch, they go like crazy.

I'm going to have to do some more testing. Right now, the Swedish Army's work good, lot's of sparks, but don't last long. The Strike Force so far has the best amount of sparks and duration, but I'm going to do some more testing, and I'll post pictures when I'm done.
 
sodak, I think you have a bar similar to the ones goinggear.com sells, and they require a fast strike to ignite, search storl's posts as he posted a great videa recently

If you can make shavings you will need to strike it fast
 
So I'm starting to see a variation in even the longer sparking version of the misch metal. I a problem with one version at a recent campout yet busted out another version (both of the hard to strike long igniting) and got better results.
Anyone else seeing this type of variation?
 
Joezilla said:
So I'm starting to see a variation in even the longer sparking version of the misch metal. I a problem with one version at a recent campout yet busted out another version (both of the hard to strike long igniting) and got better results.
Anyone else seeing this type of variation?
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I've noticed the same thing Joe. I think it helps no matter what kind you have to use quite a bit of pressure and a pretty quick strike. And a nice square corner is a must. Those three things have produced good results for me on all the types of ferro rods I've had.
 
That's a great video up there. And wow, that pjcb really burned for a long time! I think I need to add more pj to mine. I'm going to have to get one of those misch metal rods.
 
Grapevine said:
That's a great video up there. And wow, that pjcb really burned for a long time! I think I need to add more pj to mine. I'm going to have to get one of those misch metal rods.
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Do it ... they are the next level for ferro rods.
 
Don't add too much PJ to your cotton balls; rather, just add enough to work the cotton until it has a waxy feel to it. When you use the cotton pj ball, just pull it apart gently and stand the piece on end. You want to light the fibers that are pulled out into a natural wick. If you use too much pj it's not a problem but does make handling them a bit messier.
 
gruntinhusaybah said:
sodak, I think you have a bar similar to the ones goinggear.com sells, and they require a fast strike to ignite, search storl's posts as he posted a great videa recently

If you can make shavings you will need to strike it fast
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You are sooo right!

I finally had some time to do some informal testing, although I'm still working on a review. I've been used to the "Light my Fire" and Storm/Blastmatch brands. With these, you get a nice big shower of sparks, and it depends greatly on how much pressure you use. I'm used to dragging the striker slowly, but with a lot of pressure. With the big rods, slow striking just gives you ribbons, unless you are using 1. a Fallkniven F1 or 2. the carbide striker off the storm. Even those 2 can give you ribbons if you go too slow. When I tried the fast strike (with a LOT of pressure), the F1 and carbide threw off pyrotechnic slivers that burn for 10 - 20 seconds on average. Some lasted almost 30 seconds. In a survival situation, you would strike the sliver on the ground, then put your tinder on it, I suppose. It's almost unreal how long the slivers burn!

On the downside, most of my knives will only light off the big rod 1 out of 10 times or so. Even my trusty Doziers and CS Master Hunter weren't reliable. I wonder what it is about the Fallkniven. I even tried HSS M2 power hacksaw blades at 66 HRC with mixed success. I'll try some more then start a review thread.

PS - You have to see it to really appreciate what I'm talking about. I'm going to learn how to put a video on youtube and link to it that way.
 
sodak said:
[...]
I wonder what it is about the Fallkniven.
[...]
PS - You have to see it to really appreciate what I'm talking about. I'm going to learn how to put a video on youtube and link to it that way.
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I wonder what it is too :thumbup:. My F1 throws beastly sparks. The 420J laminate isn't even hardened past 59 or 55 HRC if I recall correctly, so is the spine just squared "better" somehow? I don't get it. I look forward to your video!
 
you both shoudl check how sharp the angle of the spine is on those knives, it has to be a sharp edge to get a good spark, with the type of steel you are using it takes a pretty darn sharp edge to get a good strike, try taking a file to a portion of your knives spine to get a good flat spot for striking
 
Yeah, I've been meaning to do that to my Bravo-1 for a while now (thumbramp-less). I always thought my other knife spines were pretty square, but I need to go home and take a good hard look at the spine of the F1 and compare it with the others. Thanks Grunt.
 
I just got one of the big (BIG) 1/2" diameter mischmetal rods from Goinggear.com via eBay.

It takes a couple of strikes to get a spark, but it's not really a spark... it's a glob of burning metal that "splats" on the floor like a drop of molten solder. I don't dare play with it indoors any more!

Stay sharp,
desmobob
 
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