FF Blade Defect

Big Bob

Big Bob

Joined
Oct 13, 1999
Messages
1,731
Yesterday I took my 21" FF from the 6/5 specials out back to take care of a tree that my brother had chopped down and left two weeks ago. :rolleyes: The tree was 5 1/2" in diameter and one that I had been specifically saving for the FF. I chopped through a section of the trunk and then checked my blade to discover a 3 1/2" wave/fold in the blade followed an acute 5/16" bend right after it. Here are a few pics of the blade.

fftree2.jpg


fftree1.jpg


You can't tell from the pics, but the wave extends back to between the two fullers. It would appear that I got a FF with an improperly hardened/tempered blade. I've emailed Art S. about doing some repair work as I'd like to be able to save my FF instead of having to return it. We'll see what Art thinks.

On a lighter note, I had an opportunity to try out Rusty's 30" Sirupati. The siru finished off the tree but took more effort than I had expected. The reason for this is because the blade is relatively thick and narrow, preventing it from biting very deep in the wood. I was basically chopping with a sharpened maul. One blessing that came from the FF was that I learned this before trying to cut down a larger tree with the siru. After a few tries I was able to split one of the logs I made with the siru. This thing would undoubtedly be an excellent splitter with seasoned logs. Below is a pic of the siru and firewood.

sirutree.jpg


Bob
 
That's a bummer, Bob:( hopefully the FF can be saved. Good luck.

Jake
 
Hmm...do I want to put the FFF (Foxie Follie Fighter) in the Kobra category as a fighter, not a chopper, or do I want to take it outside and take a chance on breaking it on a log?

Initially, my response is "I have a full size GRS!"

I will give this more thought...

Sorry to hear about your blade Bob! :(

.
 
I do not suggest that this is an "answer," but the entire length of the blade is not hardened - just the "sweet spot." That leaves the blade much softer towards the tip and towards the cho.
 
Nasty said:
Hmm...do I want to put the FFF (Foxie Follie Fighter) in the Kobra category as a fighter, not a chopper, or do I want to take it outside and take a chance on breaking it on a log?
.
Click to expand...
In my opinion, the former.

I took mine out for a couple hard chops into an apple stump, with the wood grain. It didn't break so I cleaned up the blade and brought it back inside.

I'm not surprised the relatively thin blade on one of these would deform when chopping wood across the grain. If you hardened the blade quite a way back I think it would become brittle and more succeptable to dramatic chipping.

For an axe substitute or an agricultural tool I would choose one of the more indestructible HI models like an AK, GR, Sirupati, etc. However, I do think the FFF has it's place as a quick and powerful fighter. It should be given the same care as a good sword.
 
That still looks like a pretty crazy bend to me. While i wouldn't think of the FFF as a working blade I would suspect it to hold up to that kind of abuse. Granted, i am purely speculating on this. I don't have a FFF. However, I have done a lot of abusive things to both a 20.5" 20.5 oz kobra as well as a 32oz 25.5" kobra that "should" have broken them. Like i said before, i don't know half of what most of you guys do. Should/could Bob's blade have bent/folded? sure, but i don't think half a tree's worth of chopping should have killed it that badly. Then again i could be WAY off.


Jake
 
Thomas, the blade had folded in the sweet spot area. After I discovered the fold, I did a bit of chopping with the recurve part of the blade without any folding.

Howard, I had my doubts about a blade this thin and wide being able to stand up to chopping, but others had tested them out fairly hard without damage. I believe Archangel was one of the two who snagged one of the large and thin prototypes a while back.

Jake, I had made it almost all the way through before I discovered the folding.

Bob
 
That's really unfortunate, and frankly, unacceptable in either a fighter or a utility blade. Anything you'd be fighting would probably have bones. What happens if you hit one of those?
 
I think I've done that myself. Damn funny bone is MOFO!!!
dmart_1847_178737965



Seriously though, my Foxy is hanging on my bookshelf in view of the whole apartment. IT is my centerpiece. She is a fighter, a war sword I think. I dont recommend chopping down an apple tree with a wakizashi or a katana so Im not sure its fair to ask this one to....
 
Josh Feltman said:
That's really unfortunate, and frankly, unacceptable in either a fighter or a utility blade. Anything you'd be fighting would probably have bones. What happens if you hit one of those?
Click to expand...
We each determine our own limits of acceptability.

DannyinJapan said:
She is a fighter, a war sword I think. I dont recommend chopping down an apple tree with a wakizashi or a katana so Im not sure its fair to ask this one to....
Click to expand...
Exactly what I was going to say. There are a number of good weapons that make poor agricultural implements. A $100,000 katana would probably be seriously damaged if used to chop down trees. However, they have proven themselves many times in combat, including cutting through bone. The forces involved in repeatedly chopping into wood and breaking out chips are somewhat different than cutting flesh and bone. And cutting bone is an occassional thing, even for the most bloodthirsty barbarian.

However, I do think it is a very good idea for HI to distinguish between the two types of blades for their customers. I know Bill always used to worry about selling the long Kobras because he was sure someone would use them for chopping trees. (And sure enough some did.)

I would hate to see HI stop selling these light, weapon oriented blades just because some customers are dissatisfied that they're not good for chopping down trees. Many of the old, historical khukuris are closer to the FFF than to the indestructible HI models. I am pleased to see HI taking a chance on allowing the master kamis to produce some of these lightweight blades.
 
Kobras would break and they were not guarenteed against some work. This was known. These new, strange thin FF's are an unknown. I suggest you email Yangdu with the picts and describe what happened.

We need to figure out if all the FF's of this type behave this way, or if yours was improperly heat treated. I agree with Howard I'd hate to see HI stop making these because of warrenty problems. He mentions these blades are closer to the historical khuks. Well, Bill once said much of Nepal was deforrested by khuk. That would mean historical khuks. How thin are these again? They are much thicker than many of the historica khuks.

I may be wrong, but with modern steels, and the fullers (remember; to reduce weight while still allowing strength?) I think these off-type FF's should still have been able to do light chopping. That was a green tree, right?

Write Yangdu.


munk
 
In Ferguson's excellent review of 6-08, he chops through a 2"X4" without problem using his FF slender model.



munk
 
Munk, the tree had been cut down a few weeks ago, so it was pretty much a green one. Thanks for mentioning Ferguson's review. Has anyone with a slender FF done much tree chopping with theirs?

I got in touch with Art and he said to send it to him and he'd look at it. If my FF was the one defective one of the batch and Art can reharden it I won't bother Yangdu with this.

However this comes out, I probably won't be doing much chopping with this one again. I'll try to snag one of the smaller models when they come out or get a BGRS villager for my main do-everything khuk.

Bob
 
Its just heat treated improperly, way too soft. Nothing more, nothing less.

A hardened edge would not have bowed out like that, regardless of the khuk model.
 
Bob?

Regardless of the outcome, let Yangdu know. She runs H.I. She needs to know. You wouldn't be doing her a favor by hiding the issue.

Nice impluse though.


Be well and safe.
 
Yes, Yangdu needs to know. How can she run her business, and help us unless she knows?



munk
 
I'm really surprised this happened. Did your knife have a full convex bevel?
 
I agree, Yangdu should know. If she is going to sell (very nice) blades like this the customers need to understand what they are getting.

These blades are dramatically thinner than the standard HI offering. There is just not enough metal in the very wide blade to resist large sideways pressures. While a standard offering may have a convex bevel with wide metal behind it supporting the edge, approaching the edge profile of an axe, these FFF do not. They are thin. I would expect binding if chopping into wood. Sideways pressure can be expected to deform or chip the thin blade, depending on the heat treatment.
 
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