Filling Out Your Profile, and Reading Up Before Starting

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

ilmarinen - MODERATOR
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Aug 20, 2004
Messages
38,483
On several threads lately, I have started to answer a question, only to see that the person asking has no profile info. I often just clicked over to the next thread and don't answer. Why? Not because I am a profile snob....It is partly because without some basic info it is harder to make a complete answer, and the other part is that if a person wants some advise from those who have done the work and research, they should at least show the effort to present themselves properly. Too many new chaps show up here and ask the same old questions and/or start a project with no plan or direction.

Knifemaking and brain surgery are not a learn as you go thing. You need to learn the basic principals first, make a plan on how you will build your knife ,including the heat treatment , and then if things pop up ,or you don't understand some of the info you have read......ask for advise.

The standard comments/questions seem to run like these:

I finished drawing the shape on my steel...How do you guys cut it out and make it hard?

I finished shaping and sharpening my knife, but it won't stay sharp. Is there another step i don't know about that makes it hard?

I Finished the knife I am making from 440C, But my oven only goes to 500F?Can I HT it in my kitchen oven? If not, what do you guys use?

I am ready to HT my knife....what do I need to do?

I am making my first knife in 1095 because it is easy to HT.

evything i read says to do "X-Y-Z". that sems like a lot of wrk. i don't think i ned Y and probly can skip most fo X and Z. WDYT? BTW, this 18" zombie killer is my first knife.


95% of these ( probably 99%) can be answered by reading the stickies or doing a simple search. If you can't get the search to work well, use this search engine:
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra
Try wording the search parameters a few different ways, if you don't find what you are looking for.

As I have advised many times, reading online and reading a book are two entirely different things. You will retain info from printed material much longer and absorb it better. Get a couple knife making books and read them cover to cover a few times and you will be amazed at how few of these questions will need to be asked. Don't forget to check the public library. You know,that brick building that they keep books in? If you don't know about libraries, ask an older person. I know many libraries that have knife making books which are not available new any more, and cost hundreds of dollars used....all sitting there read for you to borrow and read for free.

Final rants -
No you can't make a good knife from a lawn mower blade!
No, you can't do a good HT in a camp fire ( Sorry, Rambo)!
No, We have no idea what the piece of steel you found in the dumpster is!
No, you can't just heat it red and stick it in old motor oil and get a perfect HT.
 
It is the first thing in the sticky "Newbies, Good Info Here". But they don't read the stickys!

I don't understand why the profile isn't part of the sign-up. There are a few folks who for one reason or another don't want anyone to have a clue about them, but for most of us it shouldn't be an issue. Many forums require the use of actual first names.
 
I just went and updated mine Stacey, been a while since I'd done that.
Dang, what am I going to do with all these lawnmower blades?
 
Damn ! that's a good rant Stacey ! had a good laugh at that... but so true.
I agree 100% about the books. Nothing beats the printed knowledge of the masters.
Like you said, read them cover to cover a few times, any serious pursuit deserves the research time. Myself, I just pick Stu Branson's brain daily 'cause he's read all the books !! ;)
 
bladsmth said:
As I have advised many times, reading online and reading a book are two entirely different things. You will retain info from printed material much longer and absorb it better. Get a couple knife making books and read them cover to cover a few times and you will be amazed at how few of these questions will need to be asked. Don't forget to check the public library. You know,that brick building that they keep books in? If you don't know about libraries, ask an older person. I know many libraries that have knife making books which are not available new any more, and cost hundreds of dollars used....all sitting there read for you to borrow and read for free.
Click to expand...


I actually LOLed at that.

Although you do have a lot of valid points, one thing I will say in defense of the noobs, (as I still consider myself one anyway) is that a lot of the links in the "newbies read this sticky" are dead. I tried a lot of them when I first joined and realized there were ones that didn't work and as a result asked eleventy billion questions. But at a quick glance after re-checking them I got nothing out of these (and I didn't go through all them):


Myths and facts
Where in the world are you
what do I do first
costs to start making

All are useless links and that was just at a quick glance. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to either get some more newbie links in there and/or wipe out the useless ones. I know when I first joined here and had a million thoughts and questions going through my head about getting started after clicking on a few dead end links I just gave up started asking questions like a total noob.
 
Actually, I went through them this morning again, before I found this thread. With a few exceptions, all of the links to sites outside BF are dead, even the one on Cashen's website.

Folder tutorials was still active, but not a very useful direct link. It was just a link to other links, which my ADHD prevents me from reading(crap, forgot to take my methylin)
Everything from AEScustomknives.com was still good, and useful
The parser links are good, but what is a parser?
steel specs is good and relevant
dfogg.com links were active, but water quenching M2 and D2? Isn't that a no-no, and definitely not something beginners should be doing?

The most helpful sticky there is the newest from Stacy. Thanks again for that sticky, Stacy.
 
Stacy . You sure are saying the right stuff to give help !!! It was a great move to have your introduction to making a knife go to a sticky. Frank
 
It could be a FAQ would be better, I know alot of younger (not all) dont read much anymore, I see it alot at my work. Ask first and if you dont like the answere go somewhere else. But it is funny how many times the same questions and form of question comes up. The search now works for everyone but someone asking about lawnmore blades.

We need to pool some responces to "I just purchased this fantastic Chinese knife and I want someone to .......................
 
I agree with everything for the most part, but I do understand some of the n00bs stand on this too.

People like to feel important, and like personal interaction instead of reading through a bunch of stuff. They also like instant gratification. This is the age of instant information, and this is an internet forum afterall.

I've been a total n00b myself, and wanted personalized info/advice too. Some of my questions were just not answered by a sticky, or easily found.

I personally like to answer a n00b's questions about something, even though it's been said before. It's good conversation, and it helps welcome people into the world of knifemaking.

tell a n00b to stfu and go read the stickies.....and see how many people stop coming here, and how many people say "wow...that bunch over at bladeforums are a bunch of dicks... to hell with it, I don't even wanna try making a knife now."
 
psycho78 said:
tell a n00b to stfu and go read the stickies.....and see how many people stop coming here, and how many people say "wow...that bunch over at bladeforums are a bunch of dicks... to hell with it, I don't even wanna try making a knife now."
Click to expand...

Ever hear of Job security...:foot::eek::D J/K





Jason
 
The ones that make me crazy are those that ask , get several good answers but refuse to believe or listen . Then come back and ask " why did this happen "
 
I'm going to take the unpopular stance of opposing "common knowledge" on this matter.

Let me start by saying that like most of you, I am sick to death of seeing the same questions pop up AGAIN and AGAIN because someone isn't willing or able to perform a simple search. But part of the problem is that on this forum to perform a simple search you need to become a paid member. Why would a newbie pay to be a member without some knowledge of what's available for the money?

I paid, and I'm glad I did... but the friend that got me into knives never did and probably never will. He warned me this site wasn't searchable by non-members. He said sometimes he just accepted the slings and arrows for asking common questions because he thought it was stupid to have to pay to search existing content. Frankly, so do I. So if you want to stop a lot of the boring repetitive questions, make search available to registered guests, not just paid members.

One of the REALLY boring questions that gets asked repeatedly is "How can we make this forum better for you makers out there?". The question itself is perfectly valid... if you'd ever do anything with the information you are provided. Time and time again you are told "combine and reduce the number of stickies"... but it never happens. Now you're being told "the links in your stickies are dead, making the stickies uesless." I have little faith that this will lead to any changes in the stickies. And yet still, every newbie that posts a repetitive boring question is led to the same broken stickies. And you wonder why it doesn't stop the flood of boring questions?

Look, I manage (and have managed) a number of message boards, so I know this is volunteer work that offers few rewards and a boatload of grief. I even understand the need to vent at the people you serve once in a while. But the reality is that some (probably most) of the complaints you have can be addressed by actions the administrators and moderators of this forum can take on their own. If you choose not to do so, your rants become just so much vented steam. That's fine, of course... we all need to vent once in a while, but if you REALLY want change, make a change that leads to the changes you want.

- Greg
 
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I think what might be a good idea like someone mentioned is to come up with something for FAQ's. Maybe Stacy can start a thread every few days with a FAQ that he and or a combination of people can chime in on to provide some knowledge on. Then as the FAQ's are summed up they can be added to a "FAQ sticky".

Maybe that along with eliminating the broken links in what we have, and possibly combine the other stickies on the top of the page into one might help. We have as of right now 7 stickies at the top of the page.

Maybe something like a "Newbies check here (with all good links). FAQ's, and Stacy's knife making instructions, and the suppliers list would suffice (4 stickies in total). I remember the biggest aggravation for me when I first joined was TRYING to actually read through the stickies. After you keep clicking on dead links you just say "the hell with it I'm just starting a thread".

Perhaps if we do something like that, along with all caps for the sticky titles and maybe put one of those exclamation points in the triangle next to them, it might help a bit. I personally don't mind answering what I can even if it's repetitive a bit, but like Jack said it's the ones who go ahead and try something anyway when they've already gotten great info NOT to that make you feel like you're talking to a wall.
 
tryppyr said:
So if you want to stop a lot of the boring repetitive questions, make search available to registered guests, not just paid members.

It is now free to search as has been for a while now...it was even in the announcements at the top for quite a while.


Time and time again you are told "combine and reduce the number of stickies"... but it never happens. Now you're being told "the links in your stickies are dead, making the stickies uesless." I have little faith that this will lead to any changes in the stickies. And yet still, every newbie that posts a repetitive boring question is led to the same broken stickies. And you wonder why it doesn't stop the flood of boring questions?

That is valid.




- Greg
Click to expand...

Even if just one dead link was fixed or deleted per day, it would be positive progress and help to identify what info needs to be added or recreated.
 
Now that I have Mod status, I will try and clean up the stickys....and move some of the good tutorials there. It may take some time, but I'll see what I can do.
 
As a complete newbie, thanks. I did in fact come across some dead links in my researching. I mean, you're gonna have that here and there, but it DOES lead to dumb/repetitve questions especially if those were in the stickied newbie threads.

I haven't found many things that weren't covered SOMEWHERE on the interwebs though so I haven't had anything to ask. I just got a slab of 5160 and started my first one today. Hoping it goes well so that I can get some christmas presents made for the girlfriends dad and brother-in-law!
 
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