Finally broke down and ordered a Edge on Up Tester. What should I test?

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bdaabat

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Jul 2, 2025
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Finally broke down and ordered an Edge On Up tester. After thinking about it for months, it was time to pull the trigger. Why? Partly because I just want to know. I can sharpen a knife to be able to cut magazine paper and cut rolling paper. What does that translate to in BESS terms? Donno. So, it's time to find out! And, as a former academic, the idea of being able to do some experiments and then get some objective numbers is...intriguing.

Should be here next week. Sooooo...what do you think I should I be testing?

My initial goals are to establish a sort of baseline understanding of what sorts of scores I'm getting from my current three belt process (120 -> 600 -> felt belt with 3 micron diamond spray) for knives that are in need of full sharpening. After that, I'll be testing variations to help determine if there are other processes that would make sense and/or give similar or better results with less time and or fewer steps. After that, I'm planning on testing processes for knives that don't need the full sharpening process, but could use a little touching up. Is there an easy and straightforward way to accomplish this?

What else do you believe would be worthwhile to try?

Now that I've made the decision, I'm looking forward to this!
Bruce
 
I am a huge fan of the Bess. It helped me find the most effective stropping methods and compounds and enabled me to measure my progress in short order.
I test every knife, multiple times. You will learn how many passes it will take to bring an apex from 150 to 100 with a given steel. Or even what works on a Shun vs Wusthoff.
The best result was dramatically shortening the learning curve stropping. And making stropping effective.
Test new cutlery, your filet knives... everything. Every knife in my block sits around 100. I attempt to send customers knives back as close as I can get them to 100 in a reasonable length of time. I chose 100 as when you cut through the media with a apex under 120 or so it cuts effortlessly. You will feel the difference.
If you use the clips, add 20 to your score, try to be consistent in tightening the media and the speed you cut it. You can influence your results if you want but the object is to do it the same way every time to get consistent results.
I use a variable speed 1x30 bench sander with various leather belts and compounds for stropping... it does work fine for hand sharpening and stropping as well and should streamline your processes.
It made me more effective at my craft.
Good luck and have fun!
(When you sharpen and measure your first 50 on the Bess, good stuff)
Al
 
Everything! As Gottagofishn said the more you test the more you will learn. You are supposed to use 100 grams of tension on the line when you set it. I try to get the highest scores when I am using it as I find it more consistent that way. The way to do this is to be as steady and slow as possible. I discovered things like jumping back a grit because you think you didn't quite do enough with it after doing a few passes with the next finer stone will set me back 40-60 strokes, too many strokes with a stone will increase the score as there is a Goldielocks zone of just right, micro bevels are a sure way to dull an edge, that a diamond loaded leather strop will generally increase my BESS scores unless there is virtually no diamond on it, and that a diamond loaded leather strop can quickly convex the apex past 3 passes. The next tool after a BESS tester is a good microscope. Both of these tools together are great at showing you how much improvement is left with your sharpening.
 
@ gottago: Thanks for this. Yes, stropping is one of the areas that I believe will be a focus for me in the very near term. How many passes are needed? What micron size works well? Is a progression in stropping that makes sense?

And, you're right that the entire point of using an objective measurement process is to be as consistent as possible and as reproducible as possible so as to be able to try to limit variables in the process other than what is intended on being tested. To that end, I'm planning on using the clips to start. Yes, the actual BESS scores will need to be adjusted. But, they SHOULD be consistent as I start down this path.

My goal is to do a metric crap-ton of measurements in a short period of time, so I've purchased a bunch of clips.

I'm hoping that I can:

a. establish a consistent baseline of processes I can use to achieve edges that are reasonably sharp that can be done consistently for my customers;
b. test different adjustments to that baseline process that can be easily integrated into me routine to achieve better BESS test scores;
c. do some very different things to see what happens.

As I'm thinking about this and writing it out, I realize:
1. I need more clips;
2. I need more knives to use for testing.

@ Diemaker: excellent suggestion for the microscope! Do you have any specific recommendations? I made the mistake early on in getting a cheap one. The cheap one CAN take decent images. It's just incredibly difficult to use to be able to get good images. The stage that holds the imager is so flimsy that every time the "image capture" button is depressed, the imager moves and creates an out of focus image.

Bruce
 
I bought a bunch of clips when I bought mine, I honestly believe the spool of media is cheaper in the long run. As I mentioned, the clips cut a tad easier, add 20 to your scores. The media is easy to use and will last through a bunch of tests.
Also, my son says, unless you keep notes, you're just screwing around. ;-)
 
RE: Clips. Understood. I'm mainly thinking of time/efficiency (shorter time needed to just change the clips out vs. setting up the test media at the exact right tension), and consistency. I'd also expect the clips to be more consistent than me fiddling with the media, at least to start.

RE: Notes. Absolutely! I'm a former academic. That's part of why I decided to go down this path of getting the tester. The ability to obtain objective measurements and then be able to analyze the results seems like not just something practical to try to optimize the business of sharpening process. It seems like fun to me!

Delivery schedule is for Monday.

Bruce
 
I still have the 100 clips that came with mine. Since I sometimes take 3 readings from the same edge, same spot, to get a more accurate average reading I can easily do over 50 tests on one knife when I am really trying to figure the process out that would be a lot of clips. I made a 100 gram weight with a small boring bar tied to a clamp so I can reload the fiber in around 20-30 seconds with very little waste so it isn't bad. Tighten the media clamps on the holder just enough to hold it, which isn't much, to make replacing it easier/faster. Make sure the holder isn't rubbing on the metal scale guard too, I wish it had a bit bigger hole in it, future project.

I inherited an old medical microscope and got a USB eyepiece camera that is good for around 250x magnification. The camera software doesn't work with Win11, they blame the operating system and say their new USB cameras don't work either, only their wireless ones do, so I don't know what to say about a microscope as the camera is a must have. Perhaps keep an eye on your local Craigslist for a used microscope. A good microscope will often show you why your BESS scores are higher than you think they should be, but I only use my homemade guided sharpener. Taking good photos of where the edge cut the BESS fiber works very well for looking for micro burrs.
 
Diemaker said:
I still have the 100 clips that came with mine. Since I sometimes take 3 readings from the same edge, same spot, to get a more accurate average reading I can easily do over 50 tests on one knife when I am really trying to figure the process out that would be a lot of clips. I made a 100 gram weight with a small boring bar tied to a clamp so I can reload the fiber in around 20-30 seconds with very little waste so it isn't bad. Tighten the media clamps on the holder just enough to hold it, which isn't much, to make replacing it easier/faster. Make sure the holder isn't rubbing on the metal scale guard too, I wish it had a bit bigger hole in it, future project.

I inherited an old medical microscope and got a USB eyepiece camera that is good for around 250x magnification. The camera software doesn't work with Win11, they blame the operating system and say their new USB cameras don't work either, only their wireless ones do, so I don't know what to say about a microscope as the camera is a must have. Perhaps keep an eye on your local Craigslist for a used microscope. A good microscope will often show you why your BESS scores are higher than you think they should be, but I only use my homemade guided sharpener. Taking good photos of where the edge cut the BESS fiber works very well for looking for micro burrs.
Click to expand...
I picked up a cheap one on Amazon. Works well enough for when I use it.
As Diemaker mentioned, I had a knife testing at 30. A magnified edge showed a foil edge.

I also test a gazillion times on some projects.
 
Quick update: device arrived today! Woohoo!

Started testing my knives while I was figuring out the technique for using the device and trying to get consistent. Got some consistent readings from one of my favorite cheap knives (Kiwi brand that cost ~ $6 when I bought it) that were higher than expected. I'd used the knife earlier today to slice some fresh tomato and it cut beautifully! Didn't know if this was just a me thing not using the tester correctly or if the readings were correct (I believe ~ 320 with the pre-loaded clips).

Sharpened the edge using my usual method (120->600->felt belt with 3 micron diamond), then re-tested. The new results were ~ 210. Interesting.

Had to vary the sharpening method a bit to see if there were positive changes. Short answer: adding 5 passes/side with the felt strop resulted in increased test scores (numbers went up to ~ 300).
Varied method again, this time adding a step (120->600->1200->felt belt). Test scores were ~ 210. Interesting!
Varied method again, this time removing the 1200 belt but adding a leather belt with 1 micron diamond (120->600->felt belt-> leather belt). Test scores were ~ 190. Umkay!

I'm intrigued!

Supposed to be a rainy day here tomorrow. Seems like a good time to start doing more tests.

Bruce
 
Yeah, the damn thing can be quite humbling, but you learn a lot about what works and what doesn't. My first suggestion, especially on anything less than "super" steels is to use a white aluminum oxide on your stop instead of diamonds. With my "EP" sharpener aluminum oxide is better or as good as diamond at lowering my BESS scores vs diamonds on anything, even Maxamet.
 
Wowbagger said:
First off , at micron levels MORE is not better . Spray or highly diluted diamond dust is better than gobs of goop .

Contrary to what I am about to say I just bought some 600 grit in a syringe .
It was the first thing I came across for my specific purpose (trying to get deep scratches out of the side of my narrow M4 blade after some serious thinning of the blade ) . The blade was just laughing at 300 grit (fine) Enery cloth as well as 500 Wet or Dry Silicon Carbide paper .
I slathered the 600 diamond goop on the 500 paper and am finally begining to make some serious headway using a rubber block as backing.

anyway

for finish stropping of fine polished edges on high vanadium (4 to 9 percent vanadium) blades I sused out some 15,000 (1 micron) diamond dust and just apply it with a wet finger to the stropping medium , usually finish side cowhide on an Edge Pro plate .

What I mean to say is I make a very weak solution of a lot of water and a touch of dust in a puddle on the plastic "box" that the stropping plate came in and wipe the solution over the surface of the leather careful to not leave thick areas or lumps .

Seems to work well .


Personally I am not too impressed with the syringes with the paste , I have to thin it out A LOT with mineral oil before applying . I have some 50,000 that I have fought over the years ( the plunger sticks and won't move I have to dig the goop out of the nozzle with a hunk of wire).

As far as the sprays go ; seems vastly over priced at ?$30? and more ?
And I have to breath the mist ? ((haven't actually been brave enough to try some)) .

Nah , for the ultra fine stuff for final stropping the dry powder looks best to me .
Heck I do so few strokes , couple per side of an edge , I haven't even renewed my leather surfaces once applied .

This was my earlier knife stropping acutrama :
50,000 diamond paste strop at top.
Then two strops I have been using in the last couple years ; both with 15,000 diamond dust applied in water slurry . Over did it a bit with first one .
Yes , you've spotted it . It is too easy , for me , to barely touch the strop with the edge when lifting the strop (while in the Edge Pro) and take a divot off the strop or slice into it . It helps to lift before I hit the end of the stroke but it is too easy , for me , to forget to do this .

Aditionally the scratch marks in the strops are from the tip of the knife just from normal stropping motion .
For me this is BS and makes me HATE strops .
I only use the dambed things because of the book on paper wheel sharpening that says it is a good Idea .

The more I do this stropping BS the more I think : they are talking about solving problems they have CREATED with power / curved wheel sharpening and the less I think it applies to hand sharpening on flat surfaces with very low abrasive grit speed .

I mean I have been able to , every time , get edges that will take multiple curls off a single hair while it is still in my arm with only jig and stone sharpening to 8,000 grit water stones alone with zero stropping . Why am I stropping again ? ? ? ? maybe a touch more durable apex ? ? ?
maaaaybe .
OK miny rant over .

View attachment 3157422

Here is my very first stropping equip
Gold compound block that of late I have used on a Denim strip . Mostly I use it for softish stainless .
I used to scrape dust / chips off the block and onto the rough strop using that ceramic sharpening cone . Can rub mineral oil on the block to disolve some to rub on but on the denim and on rough leather it is all just a PITA .
In other words : dust or spray would be nice to have here .
View attachment 3157424

OK if you have made it this far buckle up for a crazy idea ; mostly for very hard blades mind you . (seems to me I don't need a soft flexing stropping surface for the following . . .
I have been fooling around with the following idea . . .
"stropping" with a Hard White Arkansas stone with diamond dust on it . 🤪
View attachment 3157426

and to put on my Edge Pro Apex . . .
with the same 15,000 diamond on it .
I have this coming in the Mail for my Edge Pro . Just got it this evening. It's a Translucent Hard Arkansas stone that I plan to add 15,000 diamond slurry to .
View attachment 3157434

Well that's about all I got .
Stropping ?
Optional in my view .
Spray ? Too exspensive unless maybe for rough side strops .
Better to just use good , nostainless steel and skip all that .
Click to expand...

Diemaker said:
Yeah, the damn thing can be quite humbling, but you learn a lot about what works and what doesn't. My first suggestion, especially on anything less than "super" steels is to use a white aluminum oxide on your stop instead of diamonds. With my "EP" sharpener aluminum oxide is better or as good as diamond at lowering my BESS scores vs diamonds on anything, even Maxamet.
Click to expand...

I agree on an aluminum oxide as a goto first step. Although I do use diamonds on supersteels, I start with aluminum oxide most of the time. I find it to be more aggressive at removing burrs, I like Tormek’s PA-70.
I use diamonds to finish strop on supersteels. Honestly, for everyday use I wouldn’t know the difference in performance unless I was cutting cling wrap.
 
bdaabat said:
Quick update: device arrived today! Woohoo!

Started testing my knives while I was figuring out the technique for using the device and trying to get consistent. Got some consistent readings from one of my favorite cheap knives (Kiwi brand that cost ~ $6 when I bought it) that were higher than expected. I'd used the knife earlier today to slice some fresh tomato and it cut beautifully! Didn't know if this was just a me thing not using the tester correctly or if the readings were correct (I believe ~ 320 with the pre-loaded clips).

Sharpened the edge using my usual method (120->600->felt belt with 3 micron diamond), then re-tested. The new results were ~ 210. Interesting.

Had to vary the sharpening method a bit to see if there were positive changes. Short answer: adding 5 passes/side with the felt strop resulted in increased test scores (numbers went up to ~ 300).
Varied method again, this time adding a step (120->600->1200->felt belt). Test scores were ~ 210. Interesting!
Varied method again, this time removing the 1200 belt but adding a leather belt with 1 micron diamond (120->600->felt belt-> leather belt). Test scores were ~ 190. Umkay!

I'm intrigued!

Supposed to be a rainy day here tomorrow. Seems like a good time to start doing more tests.

Bruce
Click to expand...

Yep, you are on the way…
It was an eye opener for me as well.
Then I decided, how hard can 50 be? (Gellette razor blade sharpness)
Have fun!
Al
 
Morning basic tests:
Same two knives that I used yesterday.

Basic process: p120-> 600-> felt belt with 3 micron diamond gave results were ~ 220.

Modified process: p120 -> 600 -> green Scotchbrite wheel -> wool wheel with blue compound -> leather wheel with 3 micron diamond: score was ~ 165.

Do I need the Scotchbrite wheel? Remove that, keep the rest the same. Test results were ~ 440. Interesting!

More testing to come.

Bruce
 
For me when I got a tester what was interesting was not how sharp I could get an edge but looking at all my sharpening stones and comparing what BESS they produced. It was an eye opener and really helped me thin down the stones to ones that made the most sense to me.
 
Folowup test:

Umkay, Scotchbrite wheel is mainly doing burr removal. Can I use the felt belt instead?

Tested again. Results showed that omitting the Scotchbrite wheel and using the felt belt resulted in scores returning to the 165 range.

Had a customer stop by this morning and interrupted testing. And, based on the above testing, I've modified my usual process (and did so with this customer). It will now be:
P120 -> 600 -> felt belt with 3 micron diamond -> wool wheel w/blue compound -> leather wheel with 3 micron diamond.

Will continue this week, until I run out of test clips. Ordered another 500 yesterday.

Bruce
 
Latest experiment: used a basic budget Mercer chefs knife as the test subject.

Changed my usual progression to add belts: does this help?
p120->600->1200->2500->4000->felt belt w 3 micron diamond. Results? ~340
Add leather belt with 1 micron diamond with one pass. Results? ~210
Add another pass on the leather belt. Results? ~ 180

Mmmm....does simplifying things make a difference?

p120->600-> felt belt with 3 micron diamond-> leather belt with 1 micron diamond at one pass. Results? ~ 210
add another pass on the final leather belt. Results? ~180
Interesting. Seems like those additional belts aren't necessary. Useful info!

Had a spare leather belt that hadn't been treated with anything. Decided to try using that after doing the above progression.
One pass. Results? ~ 165.
Two passes. Results? ~ 170.

Really interesting!

Unfortunately, I'm now out of test media clips. Resupply coming on Thu or Fri.

What I've learned so far:
This is a really useful tool. REALLY useful! I'm sorry that I waited to get it. It turns out, even edges that I believed were pretty sharp were not as sharp as they could be. TBF, they performed well. But, it's nice to know for certain how sharp each knife is.
The other big lesson: The burr removal process and the stropping process are where major gains can be found.

Bruce
 
I am pretty confident you are raising a foil burr stropping with diamonds, which is raising your BESS numbers. Diamonds are good at polishing, aluminum oxide is good at deburring.
 
Diemaker said:
I am pretty confident you are raising a foil burr stropping with diamonds, which is raising your BESS numbers. Diamonds are good at polishing, aluminum oxide is good at deburring.
Click to expand...
I don't know. You may be right about creating a foil burr. I don't have the tools to be able to tell.

That second statement doesn't fit with what I've seen from Outdoors55 (assuming he's posting accurate info). He shows diamond emulsions in his stropping process effectively remove the burr.

He states that after doing all of these experiments, he no longer uses anything but diamond for deburring. If the mods allow, here's the link to his latest video with the video evidence of burr removal from using diamond emulsions in his stropping process.

Now the question you raised for me is, am I getting good burr removal with my process? Donno. Like I said, I don't have the tools to be able to tell definitively. I can't see a burr using a 12x magnifier, but that doesn't mean there isn't one there.

Bruce
 
You do have the tools with the BESS tester. Your higher scores are evidence that something isn't right, and diamond loaded strops are good at creating foil burrs, ref Science of Sharp for this. A microscope would give more information about this, with the higher the magnification the more information it will give, rabbit hole, but you don't have to have it to try to figure out what the problem is. Science of Sharp also talks about using Mothers Mag Wheel Polish on strops because it uses aluminum oxide as the abrasive. There are situations where diamond stropping works well, but most often loading your strops with aluminum oxide will work better at lowering your BESS scores in my experience. Not once in years of testing this has a diamond loaded strop worked better than aluminum oxide, even on Maxamet.

I watched that video and disagree with much of what he says, and did comment that it looked like he was over stropping his edges, severely convexing the apex. He would be better served with a stiffer strop than leather if he is going to strop so much. Keep in mind you are powered sharpening and stropping, the higher surface speed makes coarser abrasives leave a much finer finish than the slower speed of doing it manually.
 
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D Diemaker - I never thought of using Mothers Mag Wheel polish on strops. That is a great idea. I could use it with the hard polymer strop that you make for EP.
 
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