Finding/approaching a mentor?

PIndelicato

PIndelicato

Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Messages
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panchO's thread about mentors has inspired me to try to find one locally. As much as I've learned through my virtual mentors, there are some things (such as grinding) that I would learn much more easily and faster by being able to actually watch someone do it.

I know there are lots of well known knife maker's in the Phoenix area, but I'm not sure about the best way to approach them to ask for help. For those makers that receive these types of requests, or those who have successfully found a mentor, what is the best approach to this? Email? Phone call? What are the right, and wrong, things to say when inquiring? I just found someone close by and sent them an email yesterday, but haven't gotten any response from him yet, so I don't know how that worked out. The gist of the email was giving my name, explaining that I was a new knife maker and that I learn best by watching someone else do something, and asking if it might be possible to sometime watch him grind a blade in his shop.

It's not that I'm socially inept or anything (my wife might disagree with that notion and perhaps she is right), but I highly respect others' time so I'm uncomfortable with contacting someone that I've never met before and asking them for help out of the blue. Any advise or suggestions would be appreciated.
 
Pj, I also sent an email to Don. I asked first how much he charged for Ht service and if he offered any classes. At first he said it would be cheaper to send the blades to Texas Knifemakers Supply and told me how much he charged per hour for classes. So I thanked him for his time and asked that if I could go buy one day he was doing heat treating just to learn how to do it. I let him know that I was interested in learning. He emailed me back and said " bring the blades over and I'll show you how to HT. After he Ht'd my blades I swept his shop up and changed out some florecent light in his shop. I now consider him a good friend. Hopefully that maker responds in a similar way to you. Taking breakfast or lunch wouldn't hurt neither I'd imagine.

-frank
 
I think you're taking the right approach, at least you have nothing to lose but time.

Also, try to get to a gun/knife show nearby and start chatting folks up. It's easier to make friends in person than by receiving an email from a total stranger.

And yes, snacks or a six-pack are appreciated by almost anyone. Although with my luck, I'd show up with donuts and beer and the guy would turn out to be a diabetic in alcohol recovery :eek:
 
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The first maker I met and spent shop time with I met at a gun/knife show and talked to him (while being respectful to step away when customers came by) and he invited me over.

The man I consider my teacher took more time than that, he'd been burned before by people coming over basically to get him to make knives under the pretense of teaching (someone actually stole a knife from him :mad: he's a full time maker :( ) and it took quite a while to convince him of my sincerity. I truly hope he thinks the time he's spent/wasted :p on me has been worth the results.

The main thing is to be sincere and be yourself, most of us that have had more than 1 person come by has been burnt by someone that basically wants a free knife, is a time waster or worse.
 
Will Leavitt said:
...most of us that have had more than 1 person come by has been burnt by someone that basically wants a free knife...
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Oh, you mean like friends who say "could you whip me up one like that real quick" and then turn pale when you tell 'em "Sure, here's the price list for the materials, I'll give you a break on shop-rates if you help" ?!? Sometimes this leads to "Well, I have a old leaf spring in the yard and a piece of firewood you could use." :rolleyes:

I used to have a backlog of sharpening chores just from friends who, of course, wanted their knife back yesterday and didn't feel a need to pay for my time "since you can do it so good" *shakes my head*:thumbdn::mad: Now I only sharpen knives I made and charge shop-rate for anything else... no more backlog :D

I'm sure auto mechanics and chiropractors and whatever-else-not deal with this all the time.

Anyway, what Will said about respect and courtesy is right on the money :thumbup:
 
PJ, I would also be interested in what and who you find since we are in the same area and seem to be in the same mindset. Maybe we can get a two for one special. I went to the Arizona collectors show a couple of months ago and met some really cool people. Don Llewellyn whom is out of Vegas was a really cool dude and next time I head up that way, I'm going to see if I can hit him up for some beer drinking and grinding. He makes some wicked D2 slicers.

There is also Tai Goo out of Tucson that offers lessons.

Please let me know what you find and if I come across anything I will keep you in the loop as well.

Rob
 
James_Terrio said:
Oh, you mean like friends who say "could you whip me up one like that real quick" and then turn pale when you tell 'em "Sure, here's the price list for the materials, I'll give you a break on shop-rates if you help" ?!? Sometimes this leads to "Well, I have a old leaf spring in the yard and a piece of firewood you could use." :rolleyes:
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No, I can deal with that. :D I explain to my friends like that that they need to cover my materials and labor because I'm making them a knife I can sell to someone else.

I've actually had 2 people over the years that after we forged or ground blades actually try to take the blade I made. :mad: One guy said something like "yours turned out much better, guess I'll finish it" the other picked up my blade and just tried to walk out with it at the end of the day.

Edited to add:

A good way to "work" your way in with a maker is to ask specific questions like "how do you grind plunges?" or whatever you need help with. If you're sincere most makers will try to explain it then usually give ya a "hell just come by the shop so I can show you, I can't explain it!"

But to repeat this, if you're a guest in someone's shop do not touch or use any tool without their permission, do not do something if you don't know how to do it. The first guy that taught me won't let people in his shop because someone ruined a 14" contact wheel. Remember that if a maker is teaching you he/she generally isn't getting work done on orders and they're expending supplies in their shop.
 
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Once the housing market picks up, I plan on moving to Tucson. I will be having Hammer-Ins and classes at my shop.:thumbup::D
 
Will Leavitt said:
No, I can deal with that. :D I explain to my friends like that that they need to cover my materials and labor because I'm making them a knife I can sell to someone else.

I've actually had 2 people over the years that after we forged or ground blades actually try to take the blade I made. :mad: One guy said something like "yours turned out much better, guess I'll finish it" the other picked up my blade and just tried to walk out with it at the end of the day.

Edited to add:

A good way to "work" your way in with a maker is to ask specific questions like "how do you grind plunges?" or whatever you need help with. If you're sincere most makers will try to explain it then usually give ya a "hell just come by the shop so I can show you, I can't explain it!"

But to repeat this, if you're a guest in someone's shop do not touch or use any tool without their permission, do not do something if you don't know how to do it. The first guy that taught me won't let people in his shop because someone ruined a 14" contact wheel. Remember that if a maker is teaching you he/she generally isn't getting work done on orders and they're expending supplies in their shop.
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Great points Will! I think being specific with your questions and respectful of other peoples property is the only way to go.:thumbup:

I also have graphic, web skills, business and marketing skills that I use to barter to help out makers. It often will lead to good solid information, tips, hints and a good working relationship. If you have something to offer them rather than just leaching you can both benefit.
 
Will Leavitt said:
IG, ain't no one gonna buy a house where the dogs and owner done urinated on everything :barf:
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He's gonna sell it to a Rob Halford tribute singer... if he throws in the bondage-chains collection...

Will Leavitt said:
But to repeat this, if you're a guest in someone's shop...
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Excellent points, really just common courtesy and common sense (the two greatest oxymorons of our time). I would add, ASK ASK ASK. As in, "How am I supposed to do this so I don't destroy something?" No One is born knowing how to do this stuff, Everyone had to be taught or spend time and materials figuring it out, so don't be ashamed to ask a stupid question!

I bet it will also help if you do as much homework as you can, so your questions make sense. And bringing something you made out of an old file and sandpaper will show some dedication, even if it's not very good. Then the person will know you're serious about putting some work into it.
 
I can speak from both sides of this topic.

On the visiting another makers shop issue. Be polite and friendly when asking and visiting. Try to bring something for them. If they forge and you have steel of the type they use regularly, take them some as a thank you for their time. If they use a particular type of handle material on a regular basis, take some for them. Don't just give them something from your shop, not knowing if it's something that they'd use or not. Look at their website and photos of their work. Most makers that are far enough along on the journey to be able to teach have loads of information about them on sites like this and on their websites. It's easy to find out what they make and the materials they like to use. As stated before, don't touch their equipment unless they offer to let you use it. If you have little or no experience on that equipment, then be honest and state that information. They'll appreciate it and know what approach to use when teaching you how to use it. I don't take alcohol, because many people don't drink. Remember, you're taking up their time, so do whatever you can to make the experience as enjoyable as possible for them. If you don't have handle material or steel that he/she would use, get some first and take it. $25 for a first rate set of handle scales is a small price to pay for all of the information you're going to come away with. And..................show up with your own notebook and pen or pencil!! Even if you don't bring a thank you gift, never show up without a notebook and pen. If you've made knife drawings, take those drawings with you. Let the maker learn about you as well as learning from him. It'll help him with how to teach you and understand what you want to learn how to do.

Now, on the topic of having someone visit your shop. Some of the same rules apply. Yes, I know that it's your little kingdom, but be courteous and friendly to your visitor. I've never been burned yet and have made many new friends by allowing or offering to let people visit my shop. Anyone that wants to learn is free to come and visit. I had "Ron" from Portland over two weekends ago to make his first knife. We started with a tour of my shop and equipment and discussions about forging vs. stock removal. We then discussed styles that make and the styles he likes and would like to make. We then sat down and he started drawing knife designs. We discussed the pros and cons of his designs and tweaked them until he had something that he'd like to make. We then made two blanks. One for him and one for me. That way, I could demonstate each step on one knife and let him attempt to duplicate that step. Once profiled, we started grinding. Yes they turned out differently. I only took over his grinding when something needed to be fixed that was beyond his capabilities. Once the grind was fixed, it went back to his hands. He left the shop with a blank profiled and rough ground. He's going to hand sand it and ready it for heat treat. I gave him a chunk of brass barstock to use as backing to practice his hand sanding. Before we realized it, 6 hours had passed by. I look forward to Ron coming back to finish his knife. On the visiting another makers paragraph, I suggested taking material with you as a thank you. I never want or expect a visitor to do that for me when visiting my shop. What makes me happiest when someone visits my shop is when they show up with a notebook and writing instrument in their hands. That shows me that they are their to learn and don't intend on wasting my time.

I want to also take the time to thank Matt Pinoy, Jim Viall, Ray Richards, Bruce Bump, Lyle Brunckhorst, and Tom Kernan for graciously allowing me to visit their shops. I hope that I was gracious in return.
 
Hello:

When I first started out popping over Dr Jim's I called him..he seemed rather rushed and a bit annoyed on the phone, cut the call short after he said he was in the "middle of a weld" and I could call back later that afternoon...I was a bit miffed but I did call back later that afternoon and he was much more pleasany and explained that wehn you are welding sword cores you just can't stop in the middle and "take a break" to talk on the phone..

We talked for like half an hour..wound up inviting me down there to have a look around and told me not to "expect much" equipment wise..and well, now I show up with some clamato juice and tabasco every now and then and he's become a friend as well as a teacher/mentor..He's only had to throw a hammer at me a couple of times so far so I guess I am doing good....

He has some computer problems every now and then and I use to be a computer nerd/tech before I became a crop duster..so I am his "computer specialist"...Sometimes it's a good thing to be able to "trade off" skills...

All in all he's a good, decent fellow..I didn't know until recently he's retired military and has a rather large firearms collection..(another interest we have in common..).I just drooled at his Gatling gun...Ever since I saw that John Wayne movie I've always wanted one...

Jason...
 
Thanks to all for the great advice and tips! I posted this at 9:22, and literally at 9:23 the gentleman I had emailed yesterday responded to me! Highlights of his email were: don't quit your day job, practice grinding a lot, and he would be willing to let me WATCH him grind a blade, or charge me shop time for an actual lesson. I guess my approach was successful in this case.

I'm all about being respectful of people's time, tools, shop rules, materials, gifts, etc., etc., so I won't flub any of that, it was just the "hi, you don't know me, but can you help me out" part that I was apprehensive about and wanted to approach is carefully.

Anyway, thanks again for all the advice.

Paul
 
PS

IH8U, I will email you.

IG, I had given up on your moving here as I thought that was going to happen earlier this year. I'm glad to hear you're still considering it. By the way, now is the time to BUY real estate here, not after the prices go back up!
 
P J 234 said:
PS

IH8U, I will email you.

IG, I had given up on your moving here as I thought that was going to happen earlier this year. I'm glad to hear you're still considering it. By the way, now is the time to BUY real estate here, not after the prices go back up!
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Bro!!! It is the time to buy, but I have to sell my house 1st. ;)
 
IG, our approach was to move here before we sold our house in the midwest (this was about 8 years ago)...surely we'd only make double payments for a couple of months, right??? Well, almost 13 months later to the date we finally closed on our old house. Not much fun to say the least, and things weren't like they are now back then.
 
P J 234 said:
IG, our approach was to move here before we sold our house in the midwest (this was about 8 years ago)...surely we'd only make double payments for a couple of months, right??? Well, almost 13 months later to the date we finally closed on our old house. Not much fun to say the least, and things weren't like they are now back then.
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I hear ya Bro.
 
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