Finger Choils and Handle Design

I am far from an expert but I could not see how you could get a comfortable 4-finger grip on something like a Navigator II, Meerkat, Dragonfly or Lil Native without the choir. Does something like the Military need one? I sure didn’t need it when I still had my Military.

Your mileage may vary.
 
Easyrider said:
I am far from an expert but I could not see how you could get a comfortable 4-finger grip on something like a Navigator II, Meerkat, Dragonfly or Lil Native without the choir. Does something like the Military need one? I sure didn’t need it when I still had my Military.

Your mileage may vary.
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I agree but on a small knife like the Dragonfly (which I love) I don't need a four-finger grip. Just a personal preference thing.
 
5-by-5 said:
Removal of a choil or a lock mechanism change is radical!
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I don't totally disagree, but it is not as if Spyderco doesn't have a history of doing this sort of stuff. Take the Sage...liner lock, frame lock, bolt-action lock, back lock, compression lock. Heck, even the recent lil' native came in 2 different lock flavors.
 
Hi Bilbo,

Each of those Sage variations required all new tooling, as did the Native variations.

We realize that each has their own preferences and each for their own reasons for liking or disliking finger choils. That's why we provide both options for our customers. This morning, I was studying the Shaman design with the finger choil removed and it's a completely different knife.

sal
 
I do like the existing design of the forward choil, simultaneously I also like the idea of having a compression lock knife with maximized cutting edge length.

It doesn't matter which knife that it's based off of or if it's a whole new knife. What matters is if it's a good knife.

I'm confident that it will be!
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Bilbo,

Each of those Sage variations required all new tooling, as did the Native variations.

We realize that each has their own preferences and each for their own reasons for liking or disliking finger choils. That's why we provide both options for our customers. This morning, I was studying the Shaman design with the finger choil removed and it's a completely different knife.

sal
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Thanks Sal. My point wasn't that it didn't require new tooling, only that you guys (awesomely) have a history of offering variations on the same knife. It's great for us as consumers. My preferred Sage flavor is the bolt action!
 
Hi Bilbo,

Usually there is a specific reason to make different variations of the same model. Usually some type of CQI. The Calypso evolved into the Caly 3.5 model. We're still making different variations of the Stretch to find the right combination to please a larger group or ELU. ( End Line User ). Also projects like the Sage line. The Bolt action is a beautiful design by the late Blackie Collins.

Hey Eli,

FYI, The first time I saw a Finger Choil, it was a design by Moki Sakurai. He built a small folder for Kershaw that employed a finger choil. I don't know if he was a first, as he was quite innovative. I try to learn from others and I thought it was an effective solution for purchase on a smaller knife. Keeping in mind that control of the blade is just as important as using the blade. A blade without a handle or a handle without a blade is not much use. So in the "Marriage" of blade / handle, I saw value. Then I was asked by customers to design something between the Delica and the Ladybug. The Dragonfly design took quite a while and I used the Finger Choil to solve the size / control issue.

I also saw function in getting the edge very close to the hand, without easily slipping into the edge. This was another value that I saw in the finger choil so I began to incorporate the concept in larger knives. The deign of a choil is not without challenges; size, length, arc, how it works with the handle on controlling the edge, etc.

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Bilbo,

Usually there is a specific reason to make different variations of the same model. Usually some type of CQI. The Calypso evolved into the Caly 3.5 model. We're still making different variations of the Stretch to find the right combination to please a larger group or ELU. ( End Line User ). Also projects like the Sage line. The Bolt action is a beautiful design by the late Blackie Collins.

Hey Eli,

FYI, The first time I saw a Finger Choil, it was a design by Moki Sakurai. He built a small folder for Kershaw that employed a finger choil. I don't know if he was a first, as he was quite innovative. I try to learn from others and I thought it was an effective solution for purchase on a smaller knife. Keeping in mind that control of the blade is just as important as using the blade. A blade without a handle or a handle without a blade is not much use. So in the "Marriage" of blade / handle, I saw value. Then I was asked by customers to design something between the Delica and the Ladybug. The Dragonfly design took quite a while and I used the Finger Choil to solve the size / control issue.

I also saw function in getting the edge very close to the hand, without easily slipping into the edge. This was another value that I saw in the finger choil so I began to incorporate the concept in larger knives. The deign of a choil is not without challenges; size, length, arc, how it works with the handle on controlling the edge, etc.

sal
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Like so many others Sal, the Delica was my gateway to Spyderco and you remain almost exclusively my source for modern folders. I bought a lot of models along the way and have really settled into the Manix 2 and Dragonfly 2. For me, they are just pure mastery. And I prefer the LW versions. My orange D'fly was cutting up cardboard this morning and my plain ole BD1 M2LW was out a while ago helping me clear some branches. :)
 
Recently got my first Spyderco, an orange DLC s90v Native lightweight. With 2xl north paw, the choil and spine jimping (exceptional BTW) work together for excellent control using index and thumb! And as I scoot back and release the lock with my thumb, it falls free to my index finger, moved onto the FRN's opening indentation, perfect. And with no fingers in the way the blade stops at detent, again perfect. The only lock to have back in the day was a backlock, with D2 if you could get it. Tension is essential and holds us back for good and ill. That kind of tension always pivots on preconceptions.
After 3 pages of, in the majority, rational adult conversation in this thread, I went over to Spyderco to see if they have developed a knife buying configurator, the obvious answer to the Eli's request for options. They have not, but that is the beginning of this story, not the end, after all Eli is looking forward to trying the Leaf Jumper.
After navigating Spyderco's menu's and reflecting on innovations designers and exclusives, they are honoring the market more then Buck and Benchmade, both of whom have knife buying configurators. Spyderco leads in steels, CQI, locks, and are always accessible for both in and out of warranty issues. My confidence is that Spyderco's brain trusts has a map that has invested in studying configurators. That confidence comes from knowledge gained by using this Native. A very well thought out pocket knife with excellent execution.
Any first world problems I have with this or any other pocket knife, can be solved by buying into the custom bladesmith cottage industry for handle and blade work. I look at my Native and instantly see what I'd like to mod by working with a bladesmith. Now, to save my money instead of buying a Knivesplus modded Chaparral as my second Spyde...
 
I also have large hands and incorporate the forward choil as the "natural "grip when I use the Lil Native, Native 5, Para 3, Chaparral, And Manix 2. Using these blades any other way wouldn't work for me personally. The nice part about Spyderco is the variety to their Catalog, Something for everyone.

SubMicron said:
I do like the existing design of the forward choil, simultaneously I also like the idea of having a compression lock knife with maximized cutting edge length.
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Have you tried the Carribbean (one of Spydercos best IMO) , Sliverax, Kapara, Ikuchi, or Mantra 3? Some good full length edged Compression lock knives there! :)
 
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