Finnish/Earlier Scandi axes - Kirves

Just got an email from a friend in Finland who was at the big gunshot in Turku this last weekend. He got a Billnas 12.3, unissued axe that is stamped "SA in a square with a "P" underneath, so a Finnish Army Pioneer (Engineer) axe. As made except for some minor storage marks. John
 
Very nice, I have a guy that has a head that he is unsure of the marking, covered in black paint. Its the last one I've found. I may have to nab it..
 
The easiest way of identifying a Finnish axe model (in my opinion) is by taking the dimensions of the eye, and length of the socket and the poll.
If you cant make out what the stamps say in your axe i could propably identify it from those dimensions since i have acces to pretty much all the models of Billnäs and Kellokoski.
 
Agent_H said:
Tervapiiluja – Google translates “Terva” as “Tar” - "sap" maybe?

I originally misspelled it... Try a Google translation from Finnish to English the term “Terva pilluja” for a laugh.
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Yeap, it's tar. Not sure/can't remember if mentioned but if you remove one i and and add one l to piilu, it means woman's genitals.

That being said, fascinating thread. Seeing these axes all my life - and still do - it's kind of disappointing how little I know.. but that's the same thing for most people I think sadly.
 
John A. Larsen said:
Just got an email from a friend in Finland who was at the big gunshot in Turku this last weekend. He got a Billnas 12.3, unissued axe that is stamped "SA in a square with a "P" underneath, so a Finnish Army Pioneer (Engineer) axe. As made except for some minor storage marks. John
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John, that sounds like something to hang on to. It’s good to see another Finnish local mention that the “P” refers to the Engineer division of the suomen armeijan. I’ve only used a couple of them and ogled a lot but the 12.3 seems like a pretty versatile size of axe. Kind of a beefed up boy’s axe with a smaller cutting surface. I’m convinced the smaller 61.x sized ones are pretty amazing when it comes to carving something for the same reason.

Really, they are just super interesting (my opinion) in build and history given that the differences in them, slight to major, all are connected to a certain region, city, or variation in use.



A.L. said:
Yeap, it's tar. Not sure/can't remember if mentioned but if you remove one i and and add one l to piilu, it means woman's genitals.

That being said, fascinating thread. Seeing these axes all my life - and still do - it's kind of disappointing how little I know.. but that's the same thing for most people I think sadly.
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A.L. – that was what Google showed me as well. I looked at the screen, looked at the catalog, looked at the screen, and then laughed pretty hard. I initially thought maybe that was actually what it was as some cultures aren’t as prude with certain things.

Then I realized that the print in that pdf catalog is all in caps and it was just my mistake lol.

olli69 said:
The easiest way of identifying a Finnish axe model (in my opinion) is by taking the dimensions of the eye, and length of the socket and the poll.
If you cant make out what the stamps say in your axe i could propably identify it from those dimensions since i have acces to pretty much all the models of Billnäs and Kellokoski.
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Olli69, I believe you on this – all of it. Personally, even with measurements I would be inclined to send those dimensions and a picture to you for example. Without that experience a worn 12.1 and 12.2 make me second guess myself.

I think your take on identifying them is accurate but I would have to have more experience with them to know what to do with the measurements lol.
 
Finally got her in the mail today, I had to wait a wile :D

I made a handle for it today (I'm still working on it, but im too excited not to share). She splits like a monster for a hatchet, and I'm officially hooked on the pattern. I love this thing to death.

She has some blue paint (and purple paint?) on it. My spare sheath for my GBA Hand Hatchet fits quite nicely too!

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Cheers,

Jim
 
Not sure what to make of this axe I noticed on ebay. I looked back through this thread and at a couple of catalogs saved from this thread, but couldn't find anything quite like it:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/112399220150?ul_noapp=true

Weighs four and a half pounds. Seller is from Estonia. Their description:

Weight 2.04 kg​

VERY OLD AXE FROM FINLAND


Bob
 
Bob, I’ve been looking at that thing since the listing was posted and been intrigued somewhat.


Latvia certainly does seem to have a large variety of older Finnish, Swedish, German, eastern European, and Russian style axe relics coming out of it (solely based on what I see listed from some of the sellers – drive-by lookie lookies, a couple of purchases, and interactions back and forth with sellers).


Maybe Jake Pogg or one of our guys more knowledgeable of the region can chime in but here are my thoughts:


The eye is a definite “D” shaped - that made me think German for some reason but older Swedish axes look like they had a similar eye shape – at least the larger building axes (bjälk - beam)

Example of what I am thinking of.


[URL='http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Agent_Hierarchy/media/Agent_Hierarchy003/Wetterlingsp14.jpg.html']


[URL='http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Agent_Hierarchy/media/Agent_Hierarchy001/Finnishpolled2.jpg.html']
1. The front of the eye is beveled like some of the German/Austrian breitbeil axes I’ve seen.



[URL='http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Agent_Hierarchy/media/Agent_Hierarchy001/finnishpolled3.jpg.html']2. It does look like wrapped bit construction with the seam in the eye.



[URL='http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Agent_Hierarchy/media/Agent_Hierarchy001/finnishpolled4.jpg.html']3. There looks like there is as much steel in the collar as there is in the bit:


[URL='http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Agent_Hierarchy/media/Agent_Hierarchy001/Finnishpolled1.jpg.html']

4. The hammer poll doesn’t look like it was hardened given the damage. Whether any of them were hardened, I don’t know.




I couldn’t argue against it being Finnish but could it have been something else then modified? I’m an amateur but it has some features that I "associate" with a couple different regions – or maybe it is just really old and shows those different features than I think of as being Finnish.


It is a strange little thing that has seen some axetion for sure.[/url][/url][/url][/url][/url]
 
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You can bet the poll was hardened. It's just been used hard. Several high carbon steels were often sold as hex or octagon bar. That poll would have been forge welded in.
 
Agent_H,i think that yours is as sensible of an analysis as can be made without knowing anything definite...It looks exactly like one of those polls to me too.

Much,much of the entire Northern Europe was under the influence of the Rheinish forging traditions,they had the material And the stick-with-it-ness to systematically improve their skills...But the D-eye is also just simply an expedient method of welding up an eye,a square chunk between two flat cheek-pieces...

I don't know anything about killing axes,so can't tell if Square_peg was funning when he said it is one:)...but don't see why not:)
 
Square_peg, I wouldn't doubt you are right about the poll. What is your guess on how long hardened stock like that (hex or oct) has been available in that form?

Jake Pogg, thanks for the info. So the eye shape doesn't really rule out or solidify that it is Finnish in origin?

I don't know much more about these types of axes other than what we have going on here in discussion. :)

That thick blocky eye/poll, forge welded hammer end, double bevel bit - I do have to say that one is kind of a "muttish-looking" thing though lol.

If it is a "killing axe" then I bet it could be used to kill, part, render, prep for dinner and then turn around and frame a door.
 
Agent_H said:
So the eye shape doesn't really rule out or solidify that it is Finnish in origin?
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Lord,no,of course not.Finnish tools have a huge admixture of Ugric forged work,and D-eye was almost iconic in many of those,dating 1000 years ago and even further back....Let me see if i can maybe dig up a photo of an artefact....
 
Thank you,and i'm embarassed that you guys keep having to fix the images for me...

It's not the greatest example,only showing that the D-shape was in existence.
I'll look in my files for this PDF of an actual cross-sectioning of an Norwegian artefact,showing how expeditios/practical that particular poll construction was.

But speaking Generally(VERY!!!),the Finnish traditions in tool-making stem from two sources:
1.The Ugric(tribes that seem to originate in South-Western Siberia,and having crossed the Ural range have moved north,and west(except for one small branch travelling south-east to end up in Hungary....).
2.The Germanic,starting in some pre-Merovingian times,and approaching Finland from their southern neighbors,Sweden and Norway....
 
Thanks,Moonw,yes,exactly so...Square_peg is also quite right in saying that the hex-,or an /octagonal section of steel stock is most probably med. to high-C,as in heat-treatable(if not HT'd for the purpose);indeed,that polygonal section of stock was a code for the C content....(i see a bit of that in and around the old mines around here).
 
Agent_H said:
Square_peg, I wouldn't doubt you are right about the poll. What is your guess on how long hardened stock like that (hex or oct) has been available in that form?
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Available since before 1900. Plumb shows that steel in their killing axe in their 1900 catalog. One of the makers actually showed how the octagon steel was inserted.......

Do you have a copy of Axe Makers of North America (revised)? Check page 124. It shows a Campbell Bros. hammer poll axe with cast steel insert dated 1919.
 
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