Firesteel vs a Lighter...

kgd said:
I carry a bic as a back-up to my firesteel which is a back-up to primitive methods. Life is too short to miss the joys of abo-ignition. Then again, I also enjoy foreplay.....
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. . . so true, kgd, so true. Can not disagree at all . . . :)
 
Hawkings said:
I wonder if people would put the same hours (lots and lots ) practicing with the ferro rod, into practicing with the lighter, under the same conditions....like leaving it submerge for 5 min, then start a fire in less then 1 min.....Or start fires with a Bic with no fuel in it....Would it really be considered so inferior to the ferro rod ? given equal time spent working with it.
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Good point Hawkings. If people did that and managed to get comfortable with their bic under adverse conditions as you mention, then I would say it was an equivalent tool.

The problem is when people don't practice under harder conditions and just assume their usual method will work. Even if they have a firesteel in their kit, if they haven't used it and practiced with it then it will be useless to them.

The issue is that the firesteel requires practice and developing a skillset even under the best of conditions to use properly. The lighter is easy to use under easy conditions but I think requires as much or perhaps more practice to use under adverse conditions. Getting a fuel-less bic to light is certainly possible and could even be easy if you had PJCB or charcloth etc., but are folks who carry a bic going to carry emergency tinder as they very likely would with a firesteel? Would they necessarily know how to translate that spark into flame?

I admit that I don't really practice enough with bic lighters and I kind of suck at using them as a result. I have a hard time using them in the wind and rain. I find their flame very weak and fragile. Under challenging conditions I usually go right to firesteel or I use the bic to form an ember and then treat the ember like I would under primitive fire.

mtwarden said:
no experience w/ a flare as an ignition source, but do have experience will falling into ice water :( duck hunting trip via canoe on the Bighorn River, mid December- ambient temps around 5 above, water very close to freezing as there was a lot of ice flow

we made a turn into a slough and caught a unexpected eddy and were flipped as quick as you can snap your fingers- I swam hard to shore and immediately attempted to start a fire. First thing I found out was that my Bic lighter wouldn't spark when wet. Went to my backup, strike anywhere matches- every time I lit one, it would go out as there was water running/dripping down my arms- five minutes into this ordeal my fine motor skills were toast. We climbed back into the canoe and paddled our a$$ses off (about 3 river miles) to a waiting truck- cold, wet, scared, but alive.

I learned a few valuable bits during this outing (besides the wet bic and matches thing)- good clothing (in this case a mix of wool and fleece) can ultimately save the day; a dry set of clothing in a dry bag is not a luxury item- it's a necessity; tinder- bring your own tinder- PJCB's, wetfire- something that will catch even if wet!; a waterproof/windproof lighter is better than a bic lighter; a good firesteel (w/ lots of practice behind it) would be a wonderful item to have had :); lastly it's good to have angels watching over your a$$ :D
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Good story MT. I also dunked a canoe in October near Sudbury, ON. I remember wearing cardhardt like cotton duck jacket and army surplus lined pants. I remember sinking to the bottom like a stone. Fortunately, the bottom was shallow enough that I could on tipi toes stretch my nose out of the water. I had to get out of my jacket before I could make my way out of the water. Had the car right there and we booted it to camp with one of the people dry driving. I remember losing all feeling in my feet and hands on the 10 min drive home in the car with the heaters blazing. Took all night in the cabin huddled by the fire covered in sleeping bags to get the chill out. Very fortunate and made me rethink about clothing and drybag while canoeing in colder water.
 
There is no doubt that the best thing to take with you on an outdoor adventure is a buddy or two who will watch yer back! :D

Back to firesteels and ferro rods... are all brands fairly comparable? Are some better than others? Is there a brand best avoided? Yeah, I've got a lot of questions... just trying to get up to speed here... :o
 
no expert on ferro rods, but I've had good luck w/ both LMF ones and the ones from firesteel.com- I'm sure there are other worthy ones out there as well
 
timberweasel said:
Back to firesteels and ferro rods... are all brands fairly comparable? Are some better than others? Is there a brand best avoided? Yeah, I've got a lot of questions... just trying to get up to speed here... :o
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No. There are basically three types. Cheap knock-offs (some work, some don't work all that well, its a crapshoot), LMF-type firesteels (Light My Fire is the most popular brand) and Mischmetal type ones (usually from suppliers like GoingGear, Firesteel.com). I don't know where blast match and some of the others fit in to the scheme of things.

The LMF-type firesteels are harder rods which makes them easier to make sparks and it seems like the scraper used with these rods is a bit less critical. The Mischmetal type ones are softer. You have to use more vigorous force and a faster action while scraping to ignite the ferrocium. The advantage is that these types of rods can throw globs of molten metal that burn hotter and longer and can ignite tinder that would be more difficult to light with an LMF-type. The Mischmetal types also seem a bit more picky on the type of scraper used, a hard-sharp scraper is more necessary. The LMF-type firesteels can also be made to throw globs of metal with the right technique and a good straper.

Both work well, both require that you are familiar with how your steel works and what is the best scrapping technique to maximize sparks. Both may require you to optimize the types of tinder you use for ignition, although either works great for PJCB and man-made tinders or proper birds nest natural tinders.

I've used both and have gravitated towards the mischmetal ones. My decision had more to do with the fact that it is easier to find blank rods in the dimensions I want for Mischemetal, whereas LMF rods come only in 3 standard sizes. My style of using a firesteel is to scrape the $hit out of it until the flames appear. I don't do this stuccato, one scrape look for a flame stuff....Its all business!
 
Every time I light up my grill (3-4 times a week) I use a fuzz stick/dryer lint/ cotton ball w/petro jelly with mag shavings and a $2 striker bar from Harbor Freight. Mostly, because I find it fun and to practice my fire skills. I always have a Bic in my pocket though. In the woods I always have both plus water proof matches/trick birthday candles. It just depends on how I'm feeling and how tired I am.
 
kgd said:
The issue is that the firesteel requires practice and developing a skillset even under the best of conditions to use properly. The lighter is easy to use under easy conditions but I think requires as much or perhaps more practice to use under adverse conditions. Getting a fuel-less bic to light is certainly possible and could even be easy if you had PJCB or charcloth etc., but are folks who carry a bic going to carry emergency tinder as they very likely would with a firesteel? Would they necessarily know how to translate that spark into flame?
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A BIC or Cricket give off less spark than a Spark-Lite Firestarter which gives off less than a good ferrocerium rod. If all I had was a BIC or Cricket and whatever tinder I either already had or could find, I'm fairly certain that I could get a fire going. I'd rather have an excellent ferrocerium rod, it's really that simple. But, I worry about the tinder I carry and that I can find as much as I care about the firestarting device, too. Lighters are really great at doing what they were designed to do - light cigarettes. I think they work well for lighting candles and I think the lowly tea candle is a good thing to have for those that, for whatever reason, can't get into the whole ferrocerium rod thing. Carry a bag of BICs and a bag of tea candles. :D
 
Ha ha! Good one bladerique! Got one like that when I'm not working hard enough in camp, set up tent, unload truck, get firewood, etc. No beer until the work is done. Yikes!
 
I have been using firesteels exclusively for years. Completely reliable.

From your OP, it seems that there is a misconception - firesteels are not magnesium, and they do not behave like magnesium. There is one style of firesteel that comes attached to a Mg block that can be shaved to use Mg shavings for fires, but I find that one very difficult to use properly, primarily because the Mg shavings are easily knocked away or blown away. Plus, the ferro rod on those is not very big.
 
lambertiana said:
I have been using firesteels exclusively for years. Completely reliable.

From your OP, it seems that there is a misconception - firesteels are not magnesium, and they do not behave like magnesium. There is one style of firesteel that comes attached to a Mg block that can be shaved to use Mg shavings for fires, but I find that one very difficult to use properly, primarily because the Mg shavings are easily knocked away or blown away. Plus, the ferro rod on those is not very big.
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+1

I have the Coleman version of such i picked up at Wallyworld. The first thing i don't like about it is that the ferro rod is tiny. The second part is what you said.
 
I bring 3 types with me always. Firesteel, matches, and a Bic. When I'm practicing firestarting it's the firesteel but my first choice is usually matches. I find the Bic lighter the least reliable and most succeptible to not working in the wind and especially in the cold. Almost useless in the winter unless you can keep it in your armpit for 5 minutes first.:)
 
I have a zippo on my belt always and have never had issues- so for me, fire steel = unnecessary
 
if your in the backcountry, redundant fire starting is a must imo, New York City probably not so much :)
 
You gotta watch those mag bars. I think the el cheapo ones arent even Mag.

This thread is an eye opener for me. I always thought EVERYONE carried a firesteel.

Do whatever you guys want, at least we are all smart enough to know you need to carry some way to start a fire.

For the newbs and guys who are just unsure of the ferro rod, I say get one and practice. For the guys who think the lighter is all they need, I hope you are right.
 
XanRa said:
I have a zippo on my belt always and have never had issues- so for me, fire steel = unnecessary
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I understand this sentiment, fella. If I did not, I wouldn't have started this thread. ;)

For years, I've only taken a lighter, a few books of penny matches in a plastic pouch, and considered my 'when-all-else-fails' option a sealed waterproof container of strike anywhere matches--seemed to work well enough, and I never had any problems. I know firesteels, ferro rods, and 'flint-and-tinder' kits have been around for a long time, but I just never knew any who used 'em.

Then again, I'm more of a hiker/camper/canoe-trip guy* than a survivalist. I admit I've never been in a survival scenario. But I'm thinking that these ferro rods are a pretty good idea now that I'm starting to learn a little about them. I mean, for the weight, why wouldn't they go in the kit?

*By the way, what is the proper term for 'one who canoes'? A canoeist? Canoer? Canoeite? Paddler? :D
 
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