Firesteel? ... why not a lighter?

FWIW, if it's "far below zero" - it won't be wet, unless you just fell through the ice.

In which case, I'd still go with the firesteel.

That may be the case where you are - it is not the case where I sometimes find myself.

I have been on the North Coast here at twenty below zero. Everything was soaked by salt spray and there was no ice on the sea. Now those are some suboptimal conditions!

I have also been on the St. Lawrence at forty below - this is tricky as the water smokes and you can barely see anything. However, a large body of moving water can still stay open if the temperatures have not been that low for long periods.

So how's that for far below zero and soaking wet? It can happen all right!
 
Well a snooze can with matches lasted for years in the foot of my survival suit when I was young and commercial fished in Alaska. I checked it every season. I also had 2 plastic soap containers in the feet of my suit. 1 had a small knife, flashlight, hooks, line, a coil of very light cable (snare). The other was loaded with hard candy. I would open them and check them at the beginning of each season then rewrap them with electric tape. Fire steels are fine, but I want something that will light up some damp fuel quick if nessary. In the long run you could start more fires with the steel. I wanted to live long enough to prepare for the long run.

What is a "snooze can"?

Sounds like you had things figured out and I agree totally with your thinking, but I would have had a fire steel and some firestraws in one of the soap dishes.;) Chris
 
I have the big firesteels but usually carry and use the smaller one. It works fine.

Another really good thing to use is the wicks from alcohol lamps. They are cotton and you just cut a peice off , spread it out a bit and spark it with the firesteel.

I think even plain cotton balls burn long enough to get most fires going.
 
That may be the case where you are - it is not the case where I sometimes find myself.

I have been on the North Coast here at twenty below zero. Everything was soaked by salt spray and there was no ice on the sea. Now those are some suboptimal conditions!

I have also been on the St. Lawrence at forty below - this is tricky as the water smokes and you can barely see anything. However, a large body of moving water can still stay open if the temperatures have not been that low for long periods.

So how's that for far below zero and soaking wet? It can happen all right!


It's certainly not the case where I am now!

But back in the day, I lived in Canada's NWT, on the shore of the Great Slave Lake. I admit, I wasn't thinking of freeze-up or break-up, when the water isn't all frozen yet - I take your point!

But where we lived, once things were frozen, and it got real frozen - our lowest was -59C, -20 to -40 was normal - everything got very dry. The air just didn't carry any moisture, and any open or liquid water froze up real fast!

And I'm betting at -40, the "smoke" from the St. Lawrence turns from water droplets to ice crystals before it's long off the seaway!
 
A snooze can is a small metal can that originally held snuff or chewing tobacco. It's a very handly container for small survival kits and other things.
 
firesteel rusts. Will it still spark with a coat of oil or something on it? In the tropics is an important issue!

Coat it with a thin varnish or enamel, nail polish works fine. Other people swear by heat shrink.

But rusting... The old flint and steel systems, yes. Ferrocerrium, no. But it does corrode, which makes it grey and crumbly. It will goes after the surface quickly, but it will keep oxidizing, just more slowly, due to this stuff apparently being somewhat porous. If it gets used regularly, I wouldn't worry about it. By the same token, I wouldn't store it for long periods of time in water- it will take a dunking, but not long term.
 
Thanks IronRaven
That's the information I was looking for :)

(Alberto, I see you are in Costa Rica. I spent time there a few years ago visiting my sister-in-law. We were in some tourist areas of course, but also spent a lot of time driving around the countryside. Beautiful country, friendly people, I was sorry to leave.)

Glad you had a good time here Blue Sky, hope you'll come back!

Back in topic, I think like getting one of these Fire steel and start practicing with it.

Good thread! Thank you guys :thumbup:
 
I have the big firesteels but usually carry and use the smaller one. It works fine.

Another really good thing to use is the wicks from alcohol lamps. They are cotton and you just cut a peice off , spread it out a bit and spark it with the firesteel....

Great idea. I'll bet they are the same sort of cotton as the Tinder Quick tabs and probably a better buy. I could see rolling a section up in a film can to carry.
 
Coat it with a thin varnish or enamel, nail polish works fine. Other people swear by heat shrink.

But rusting... The old flint and steel systems, yes. Ferrocerrium, no. But it does corrode, which makes it grey and crumbly. It will goes after the surface quickly, but it will keep oxidizing, just more slowly, due to this stuff apparently being somewhat porous. If it gets used regularly, I wouldn't worry about it. By the same token, I wouldn't store it for long periods of time in water- it will take a dunking, but not long term.

I've had no problems with my used firesteels crumbling, but after reading of the corrosion problem I have tried rubbing them with a candle to wax the area opened up by use. I imagine salt air is bad. Clear fingernail polish or even some spray polyurethane might seal them too.
 
Ever had a Bic get to hot and have the top pop off and the flint goes flying out? Well that basically means your now screwed if you can't find the flint. Without spark your doomed!
 
I always carry a Zippo lighter with two small Tobasco bottles filled with lighter fluid, in case the Zippo goes dry. As I don't smoke, I don't use it except in an emergency. Works everytime.

Also carry real stick matches in a waterproof case, and a ferro rod and char cloth.

As with Alco, I also carry a road flare cut in half. I have had to use it twice, when I REALLY NEEDED A FIRE right then and there and it was wet everywhere, snowing, and very cold. The flare is "last ditch."

I don't have any problem with redundancy.

Just my methods.

L.W.
 
Soak a bic and a fire steel in a bucket of water for week and try to start a fire with each, that should give you a good idea of why people carry firesteels, I do carry both however.

Actually I take multiple redundant fire starting systems and I have used them all. (Firesteels, mag bar with chunk of hack saw blade on key chain, containers with fatwood slivers/chunks and vaseline cotton balls and lighters) I always keep a worst case scenario view because I know what it is like to start a fire in EXTREME cold and or with wet materials. With that said, I will use a lighter first. I also have a sealed mag bar and water proof container (vas. cotton balls and fatwood) taped to the sheath of my hip knife. Regardless of what I'm carrying in my pockets, I ALWAYS have an assured fire starting capacity at all times and under all circumstances. Overkill?, yup, I'd rather have too many firestarting systems than not enough. I know from personal; experience how quickly and easily hypothermia can take a guy down.

I also highly respect and read intently what individuals like Normark have to say in regard to fire starting and primitive skills. Some of these guys have been at this game WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY longer than I have.
 
I agree with upnorth. If you're planning to be away from home for a day or longer, it's best to pack multiple methods of firestarting. However, for a small survival kit for purely OH SHIT scenarios, matches+firesteel or lighter+firesteel are great combinations that won't take up too much space.
 
firemakinsis4.jpg


On a recent trip we collected all sorts of stuff near camp to light with a firesteel. In this case the steel was a little BSA hotspark that I have attached to the wrist lanyard of the knives I loan my students. The feathery grass heads lit like they were soaked in gasoline.

I have found that, yes, any chump can light a fire with a Bic, it isn't brain surgery. The firesteel takes some practice to get it right but I find once a student starts to get the hang of it "a coisa pega fogo!" (it catches fire, Brazilian expression for something that generates its own enthusiasm)

I carry a mini-bic in my canteen pouch side pocket and use it mainly for my alcohol stove. For firelighting I almost always use the ferro rod. When I teach firelighting it is always with the ferro rod because, any chump can use a Bic, and the ferro rod takes practice.

As said, the ferro rod is a bomb proof back-up if you know how to use it. I also carry PJ treated cotton as a "sure-fire" backup tinder. I try not to use it as, excpet for rainy season, there is usually enough stuff that lights right up nearby.

I like the mag bars (Doan Tool) because they are cheap, sold everywhere, and are just a ferro rod with a magnesium handle to hold it with. I use them as my main ferro rod teaching tool. Eah pair of guys gets one with a matchcase full of PJ cotton and a short section of hacksaw blade. I consider this a very good back-up to a lighter.

Lighters are a complicated system and lots can go wrong with them. I have had them rust, leak out their fuel, get too cold, too windy, wet, etc. The Ferro rod PJ cotton always works, and the cotton is unnecessary most of the time.

One warning concerning ferro rods, they rust quickly (white powdery rust with deep pits). Especially if they get soaked long term or are exposed to salt water. Coat any ferro rod with nail polish or something similar for long term storage in a kit. Mac
 
There really is'nt a very good argument against the Bic lighter.
They're dirt cheap, surprisingly durable, extremely light-weight, and work really well for starting fires.

And this might surprise some folks, but you can soak a Bic for hours in water without ruining it.
Just take it out of the water, dry it out, and it will light.
Or you can plan ahead and put the bic, and some tinder, in a little zip-lock bag.;)

And cold is not much of a problem if you keep your bic in a pocket against your skin.
That way it will be much closer to your body temp than the outside temp.


Firesteel is great too, but some folks go to extremes to justify the need for one.
 
Hey Guys....

Theres absolutely nothing wrong with Bic lighters at all..
However with that being said, we need to realize that they are a mechanical device, that can fail. Under extreme conditions they can fail easily...

The problem is with Murphy's law...

When they do fail it's usually when you need them the most.
To me waiting "a couple of hours" for a lighter to dry out is unacceptable..

If and when you need fire, and it doesn't work for whatever reason, that to me isn't going to work..

So a more reliable method is needed, one thats bomb proof, and idiot proof.

Enter the Ferro rod. No moving parts, Very little to go wrong.. with the right training a fire is immanent within minutes.

Being pyros and survivalists, we need to look at Every form of firemaking and train with as many as possible.

Like I said in the past, Not everyone who knows how to use a lighter to start a fire, can make fire with a Ferro rod. However most everyone who knows how to make fire with a Ferro rod can operate a Bic lighter.

I don't think having or justifying a ferro rod is going to the extreme. We all seek better tools to do what we enjoy doing.

Personally I think that anyone who doesn't train with a ferro rod and takes all this backwoods shit seriously is foolish not to train with the tool.

However to each his own and hope that they never be in a situation where one is needed and they haven't trained with it...

As we've seen in many other posts,, just because you own one, doesn't mean you'll make fire with it, even under ideal conditions. Anyone can make a fire with a Bic lighter on a warm sunny day.

ttyle

Eric
O/ST
 
In a rush so didn't get to read all but one point that may be valuable- there are places I go that matches and lighters are verbotten. No one pays attention to the firesteel on my keyring.

I carry a Bic in the woods in case I lose my firesteel! LOL!

Bill
 
Hey Guys..
lmaltera..

Good point....

When I was in the army we were flying by military transport and had all of our butane lighters, aerosol anti BO taken from us..

That left only matches and Zippos..

We were constantly begging for a light from someone who had the wisdom to bring a Zippo. Most of those Zippos ran out of fuel after the first few days...

ttyle

Eric
O/ST
 
Nowhere in this entire thread have I read anyone say that bic lighters aren't great, or that they are worthless, or that you shouldn't carry one, actually quite the opposite.

Right now sitting at my desk I have an orange mini bic in my pants pocket and a ferro rod in my breast pocket, if the shit gets deep all the sudden and I need a fire I will try the bic first. If it fails the ferro rod is almost a 100% back up that I know very well how to use.

There seems to be some confusion about my soaking in a bucket statement, yes over time the ferro rod will corrode, a very long time. The bic also has a ferro rod that it can't function without that will also corrode, and a bic is worthless till it drys, that is all I was saying.

In the woods I usually carry a bic or multiple bics, ferro rod with magnesium, matches, fat wood, and pj cottonballs. It is all relatively light, compact and fire is much too important to take a chance. I have been in more than one situation where a fire might very well have been the difference between life or death. Chris
 
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