First blade questions!

Joined
Nov 9, 2007
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28
Hi, i want to make a knife but i have no experience or know anyone that i can ask for help in my area.Ive read that a good steel to use is cpm s30v, after i cut the shape of the blade how do i harden it or temper it(dont know the proper term), is there a way i can do it on my own?What kind of wheel(grit,type) would be best to shape the blade on my bench grinder?
-Thanks for your advice!
 
Hi and welcome to the forums! I would recommend against S30V for a first knife. It's harder to work and finish than many steels and is fairly expensive. You'll probably not like the way the bench grinder works for making a knife.

I would recommend carbon steel like 1080/1084 or a cheaper stainless like ATS-34 or 440C. These will all make a better knife than you usually get out of a store.

What kind of knife would you like to make, what size and how much do you expect to spend to get things accomplished? There are a ton of other questions to be asked. Where are you located?
 
Read. read read. there is a wealth of information in the sticky at the top of the shop talk section for newbie makers. I would suggest starting with one of the more simple steels. i recommend 5160 or one of the 10xx steels.
-Lou
 
You might be better served to go with a more simple and easier to work steel while you're starting out. I personally believe 0-1 tool steel is one of the best steels to start out with, and I still use it. It works fairly easily, hardens deep (meaning even if you are a bit uneven in the heating of your blade during your heat treat, you'll still get a nice hardening), and it makes a very usable knife. A lot of seasoned makers still choose 0-1 for various reasons, and it is also one of the most common and cheaper steels out there. Sounds like you'll be using a material removal (stock removal) method. The other method is actually termed forging a blade (fire, anvil, hammer), but unless you're the among the most skilled makers out there, you've gotta grind the blade to final shape reguardless. Get precision ground O-1 flat stock in whatever thickness you want. I would recommend starting out with a thinner blade (around 1/8th inch) as it will take less filing to bevel the blade.

Laymans Terminology: Heat treating is the process of hardening the blade from its more easily worked (annealed) state into something that will hold a good edge. Done correctly, it makes for an extrememly hard steel, but it is brittle and would not stand up to hard use and may even break if dropped or even if just left in that state. Tempering is the process of relieving some of the stress caused from the hardening process and making the knife tougher. Done correctly, it will take some of the hardenss out of the steel, make it less brittle, and make it tougher for general and hard use.

For heat treating, all you HAVE to have is a decent torch (you can make a one brick forge for heat treating with a propane torch...do a search) and a bucket of canola or other such oil and a means to heat it to ~140 degrees (for a very low tech/basic heat treat). Obviously, you'll have better consistancy with a heat treat oven and good quenching oil, but usually starting makers don't have access to those. Also, others will use a charcoal forge for forging and heat treating.

Heat the steel as evenly as possible into the glowing red range and check the steel with a magnet. This is very difficult to do without some sort of heat concentrating device like a one brick forge. Once the steel looses its magnetism, keep heating a minute or so longer and then immediately quench in the oil. You've got less than a second to take the blade from heat to oil. Keep the blade in the oil until it's just hot enough to hold, then briefly wash it off in hot water and place it in your household or a toaster oven heated to around 400 for 1- 1&1/2 hours for the tempering process. Let it cool to room temperature and then bake again at 400 for the same time period.

Tell us what kind of tools you have to work with. You can make knives using just a decent set of files, sandpaper, and a drill, or you can work much easier using a belt grinder (with practice). Using a bench grinder will be very difficult to grind the blade bevels. I would say you'd be better off to use the grinder to complete the profile of the blade and then hand-file your bevels.

I would recommend going by Hastings or Barnes and Noble and looking in the crafts section for a book or two on knife making. They're usually by the wood working books or smithing books.

The search function on this site can be your best friend. Do a search for filing a blade, etc. and you will find information you need. Also, the stickies at the top of the forum have some priceless and very useful information in them. Spend several hours reading up and researching what you are doing. The longer you are involved in this hobby/profession, the more you will learn. Pay attention to the guys who have been here forever, they have pearls of wisdom you will only learn otherwise by spending a lifetime hammering/grinding blades.

Good luck, welcome to the forums, and have fun!

--nathan
 
I want to make a Malaysian blade its a 3 inch long blade w/ a curve to it.I want to cut it like the design shown,what does it mean to profile a blade, is it when you shape the edge?All i have right now are a bench grinder and a stupid dremel rotary tool(which i plan to use in cutting the design from the blank).I dont mind spending money on the necessary tools, i want to make knife making my hobby.seems like alot of fun.Oh i also have some extra fine aluminum oxide and rubberized sharpening wheels, also buffing wheels.I plan to use them to sharpen my blade.Here's a pic of what i want to make.
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Profiling a blade means to cut out the basic shape of the blade (looking at if from the side) from your piece of steel. What I call beveling the blade means making the grind on your profiled blade that ultimately forms the cutting edge.

To save you some time on profiling (a dremel will take a while and get pretty warm), you may consider getting an angle grinder (4 1/2 inches works well). You can use this to quickly cut your stock steel and profile the blade. Works fast and is fairly cheap.

As for your best tool, you'll likely find most people to recommend a 2x72" belt grinder like a KMG. Those are very pricey, and a lot of people start on something closer to a Grizzly 2x72 grinder or even a small Lowe's/Home Depot belt/disc combo grinder.

--nathan
 
If you know some knife maker's in your area go and check out there shop's. Read all you can on making knives. Get some DVD's on making knives and pick up some book on it as well. You can also check out my Shop Tour and see some of the things you will need. Hope this was of help to you. Good luck on your way to becoming a knife maker. God bless:thumbup:
 
Well, you might not have picked the easiest first grind to do, but I'm sure you'll manage. I'd suggest files and sandpaper along with well annealed steel for your first knife. It will be less frustrating than using the grinder. Just buy good, sharp files. I'd buy the cheapest blade steel possible (usually 10xx, 5160, 52100 etc) because you might not like your first blade or two. Also, you'll be able to easily heat treat with a torch at home if you get these steels, whereas with stainless steel you'll have to send it out or get a proper heat treating setup.

If you tell us where you're located, there may be some makers near you who will show you their shop and/or help you with your first knife.

Also, read www.engnath.com once or twice, this is a great resource that's easy to read and understand.
 
Thanks for your replies!I called a steel distributor here and they have 0-1 tool steel so ill use that, ill experiment beveling with my grinder and some files.Can i use files to bevel even after i heat treat the steel?.I live in albuquerque, NM.
 
O-1 is a good choice.

hard O1 is not file-able at all. the file will slide and get dull.
 
one comment, i think you should start with a very simple design. somthing like a drop point with a full tang. also you could use a file for your knife steel. just pop it in the oven at 425-450 for 2hrs. that will reduce the hardness so it wont brake. makes great knives
 
If you want to use a file (a lot of folks use them), make sure it's a quality file. Also, if you're not going to fully anneal it, you'll want some sort of belt grinder to cut it into a knife. That bench grinder might do the job, but it also might get it awfully warm.

one comment, i think you should start with a very simple design. somthing like a drop point with a full tang. also you could use a file for your knife steel. just pop it in the oven at 425-450 for 2hrs. that will reduce the hardness so it wont brake. makes great knives
 
and the easiest blade shape to grind is a wharncliffe, because it has a straight edge. Just something to consider.
 
yes good idea going with the straight edge. thay cut very nice and are not to bad to file. i f you are planing on doing most everything by hand then you should use o1.
 
This is my first blade i made using steel from an old saw blade.I used my dremel rotary tool to cut the blade from the steel,and my bench grinder to make the bevels.It was pretty difficult cutting the blade using the dremel so im gonna buy an angle grinder, it was also hard getting the bevels at a consistent angle on each side using my bench grinder cuz i couldnt see the side i was grinding.I will try filing the bevels when i get the 01 steel.Thanks for the book recommendation i will definitely order it!.About the 01 steel, will it sharpen to a razor sharp edge?I want to use it this hunting season.
Thanks again!

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O-1 will definitely take and hold a shaving edge if your heat treat and edge geometry are good. The pic you showed looks like a very steep edge bevel, if you want something that will really cut aggressively you will want a narrower edge geometry than that looks like. Someone (one of the sharpener companies) once put forth 22 degrees included angle as the magic number for a balance of aggressive cutting and edge durability, I generally make my personal knives much narrower than that, and knives that I sell slightly narrower than that, YMMV. but your choice of edge geometry will dictate how sharp the knife can be, and give a foundation for edge strength, your heat treat will determine your edge retention capabilities.
O-1 steel is great stuff, especially for stock removal, Mace and Aldo's 1084 is rapidly becoming my favorite steel for forging, it's what I'm using for teaching since it moves beautifully under the hammer and seems to heat treat almost as easily as O-1

-Page
 
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