First custom made knife

6

600

Joined
Jan 7, 2017
Messages
15
Hi everyone :-)

This is my first post and I wonder if I'm at the "right spot" to talk about the level/guidance of preparation of a custom blade prior to heat treatment. I checked the custom knife section but I read the first post there and it says it wasn't for knife making from scratch (I guess the questions asked from me relates to "knife making from scratch") So please, if I'm at the wrong spot guide me through :-)


Ok after many years I decided to give it a try and make my own knife. The first knife is a little Pikal style knife with a ring for index finger, kinda like a karambit with a reverse edge.

I contacted a heat treatment service and then some practical 101 steps strucked me. Here it goes (noob questions for sure).

1. Should I completely finish up my blade with all details before shipping to heat treatment?

2. If "no" for #1 then how much should be done and to what degree prior heat treatment?


The blade alloy is M390 or ELMAX (depends on what I can get my hands on) and is 4mm thick with an overall length of around 120mm. The inner diameter of the ring is 23mm with the outter diameter of 29mm.

Desired blade hardness is 62HRC (I heard ELMAX and M390 can go as high as 62HRC in the hands of skilled heat treater).

Heat treater: Paul BOS.

I don't know if I have enough info to get proper answer? Anyway thank you all for your time :-)
 
I am in the same position. I am almost done with my first two blades, going to send them off to HT next week, probably. What I have read is, grind your blade till it is about a dimes thickness at the edge, so not even close to sharp. And if I read right, drill your holes, unless you have carbide drill bits, then you could drill after. But it is better to do it before because all of that produces heat.

I am a beginner, so lets hope someone else joins in and corrects anything that needs it.
 
ATJ999 said:
I am in the same position. I am almost done with my first two blades, going to send them off to HT next week, probably. What I have read is, grind your blade till it is about a dimes thickness at the edge, so not even close to sharp. And if I read right, drill your holes, unless you have carbide drill bits, then you could drill after. But it is better to do it before because all of that produces heat.

I am a beginner, so lets hope someone else joins in and corrects anything that needs it.
Click to expand...

Well so according to this I actually need to "do as much as possible" except for the final edge touch up.

May I see your blades?
 
My phone has had trouble sending pictures to my email, or anywhere for that matter. They are just simple hard use 3V bushcraft knives, nothing special. one is 12 inch blade, the other 5.5". I am also working on two Stellite 6K folders, but those do not have to be heat treated, which makes things a little easier, except the material is a pain to work with.

Good luck man! I will send picture if possible.
 
Jeweller / beginner knifemaker here!

Do as much work as you can in terms of surface finish before sending it off to heat treatment, it'll make work a lot easier when you're cleaning off the discoloration caused by heating and tempering; you'll have less to do. Anything you want to do in terms of texture, milling, grinds, drilling holes, should ideally be done beforehand. ATJ999 is on the right track with edge thickness; you want to provide enough support material that you avoid minor warping from heating that could occur along a sharpened edge.

Working annealed steel is much easier than working steel that's gone through heat treatment. If you keep that in mind, you should be fine.
 
Great! What about dimensonal stability overall? Its a relatively small knife im making here 120mm and with a index finger hole. Are these features effected after HT?
The nightmare is the knife comes out too short and the ring becomes deform.

How much dimensional instability occurs with ELMAX and M390?
 
G'day and welcome to the forums!

There is knifemaker's discussion forum here for just these sorts of questions. I have flagged this one to be moved there by the mods :)

The people who frequent there really know their stuff.

It's worthwhile reading the stickies in that forum. Also consider filling out your profile a bit so people get an idea of what you know, where you are etc. It gives them some context when you're asking questions :)

Welcome aboard!
 
Last edited:
Finnish the blade pre HT, maybe even a grit finer than your disired end finnish.
Do everything exept sharpen the blade.
I have my blades HT-ed professionaly to and have the edge app 0.25mm / 0.35mm
 
:-) why a grit finer?

Also when the edge is at aprx. 0.25mm for post HT grinding/polishing I will end up with a second edge right due to the geometry??
 
A dime is .053" thick. You want the edge HALF the thickness of a dime for the steel you are using. .025-.030" is about right.
 
I have not used elmax, but have used other stainless steels. Finish your blade to its final desired finish, otherwise it's a real pain to get deep scratches out after heat treat. With other stainless steels I take the edge down to .015" before heat treat. Carbon steels I keep thicker.
 
Using Elmax for your first knife! I am using cheaper steel until I get better, but I don't know how good you are yet, how many knives you want to make, and how much money you are planing to spend. Still If you are like me the first knife will likely be one of your worst ever. Still a noob here so I hope some more experienced makers can give their 2 cents.
 
War on Packaging said:
Using Elmax for your first knife! I am using cheaper steel until I get better, but I don't know how good you are yet, how many knives you want to make, and how much money you are planing to spend. Still If you are like me the first knife will likely be one of your worst ever. Still a noob here so I hope some more experienced makers can give their 2 cents.
Click to expand...

This is a good point. Unless you have a machinist background or something similar, your first few knives are not going to look all that nice.

Once you have a design, I would suggest to submit a picture of it here in shoptalk and ask for feedback. You will get some help in refining details
 
S.Alexander said:
This is a good point. Unless you have a machinist background or something similar, your first few knives are not going to look all that nice.

Once you have a design, I would suggest to submit a picture of it here in shoptalk and ask for feedback. You will get some help in refining details
Click to expand...

Absolutely. High end premium grade steel might not seem to be a good idea to improve one's skill set to start with. But this little project is teamed up with my friend who is an extremely skilled machinist (over 30 years experience). He does the CAM and analysis and I do all the CAD related stuff.

Also I got connected today with a danish knife maker who has been in the business since 1986 and manages a custom knife making school. So my plan is get the "right steel" for my type of knife. I do the design let my friend do the machining and this danish knife maker does the final edge touch up. My estimate is this first time custom knife will live up to 99% of my expectation if things goes as expected.


If the result is good, I will try to take over the edge touch up part with a smaller workshop setup. The CNC is still left to my friend as I don't want to touch that area. As for the heat treatment I now got a very skilled heat treater for RWL-34 in Denmark. If I go with other steel types I keep Paul BOS as my impression of this company is they offer highly skilled craftsmanship in the field of HT.


I tried to upload a picture but it forces me to link to an URL so I made this Wix.com site. Copy and paste the link---> http://sixhundredwings.wixsite.com/sixhundredwings

Its a CAD visualization so the end product should be relatively close to the image.

SPECS in aprx. numbers:
Total length: 5"
Blade length: 1"
Thickness: 0.26" (RWL 34 version)
Thickness: 0.20" (CPM S110V version)

Unmarked version with milled in scales (Also RWL 34 as only this steel could be purchased in this range of thickness)
Thickness: 0.20" for blade
Thickness total: 0.50"

The inner diameter of the ring is 0.9" in diameter with a thickness of 0.2" around it making the outter diameter 1.14"

Are there any design precautions that I need to be aware of using either RWL 34 or CPM S110V?

I went away from ELMAX and M390 as I couldn't not source these two materials in desired thickness. RWL34 and S110V is readily available for me. So I guess the steel course is changed a bit.

Is 0.20" to 0.25" thick enough or maybe too thin for such a chisel grind blade style?
 
If you have a question on how thick the edge should be. A sheet of paper is about .004 thick so stack up 5-7 sheets and tha will give you an idea how thick to make the edge.
 
I read from another topic in bladeforums that Chisel Grind might not be a smart idea as warpage is very common with this geometry compared to a symmetrical grind geometry?

I asseume the warpage will be less if everything or as much as possible is symmetrical? Is this true?
 
Not really. Warp isn't as much a symmetry problem as it is a thickness issue.

Most folks that have a problem with warp and bacon edge in a chisel grind are taking the edge too thin pre-HT. Many of the folks who do chisel grinds, kitchen knives, and Japanese blades, grind the bevel after HT. This almost eliminates any warp problems.
 
Nice to know about the thickness plays a bigger role than the symmetry. Anyway I also read pros and cons of a chisel grind and I think I'm gonna go with the traditional V grind. What do you professionally call the grind that is symmetrical and looks like a V in cross section?

The danish knife smith told me to finish the blade with a secondary grind of 40 degree total. And then he probably want to touch up the final edge and end up around 28 or 30 degree total. Can I go lower in angle for steels like RWL34, CPM S110V without chipping the blade?

This is not exactly a utility knife, it is much more a self defense style knife so it won't be cutting hard stuff. So how sharp can I make the angle?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top