First few Case knives...not impressed. Is it just me?

QJerry said:
If a brand promises to provide a certain quality (let's say XX tested), then several customers complaining about fit and finish will point to poor quality control.
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This is the one thing that really bothers me about Case's QC issues. When you go to their site or read their literature you read phrases like:

"Every knife is hand crafted by the most skilled artisans and cutlers in the business."
"Case knives are cherished possessions passed down through generations"
"The Tested XX is a symbol of Case's commitment to quality"
"Case is dedicated to making the everyday tool into a valuable treasure for discerning men and women who want more than just a knife."
"we know how to make a premium pocketknife."

This doesn't really jive with the "they need to cut corners to hit a price point". Now, I do believe that hitting their target price point is the reason that these problems slip through, but I really think that they need to be more honest about that in their marketing materials. There's nothing wrong with saying "We make a functioning knife that a working man can afford, using the best materials and manufacturing methods possible. In addition, our great history makes our knives extremely collectible." This would be honest, and I think that that would attract just as many customers as attempting to falsely position yourself as the premiere knife manufacturer. Even the biggest Case fans will admit that they don't consistently put out "valuable treasures for discerning men and women who want more than just a knife". I would also like to say that if they do in fact employ "the most skilled artisans and cutlers in the business" and then they put such high quotas on those artists that they can't consistently put out a better product, that's just a crime against humanity right there. It's also not good business to task the best cutler in the business to making $20 sodbusters. But then again, what do I know? :p
 
rma100 said:
I don't believe one knife out of 10,000 made proves anything one way or the other.
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My sample size was closer to 50 or so that I have handled including the few I have bought.

My point is that if they can get it right on a cheap knife, why not all the time? It comes down to the individual and if they give a crap or not.
 
Thanks for posting that video, rma. I know that similar videos have been posted before, but I never went to watch one before. I knew that they used some automation, but was surprised to see that assembly is the first stage where any skilled hands actually touch the knives. Everything before that is just feeding parts into a machine that does the actual work. I guess when they say "Every knife is hand crafted" what they mean is that every knife is hand assembled with machine crafted parts.

You'll also notice that they sprinkle the same language throughout the film that you find in their marketing literature. ("perfect blades", "Details, details, details. We fuss over them endlessly because they payoff with the perfect knife.", etc.) Maybe these promises are why we see these threads pop up with such frequency?

Just to clarify, I don't think that Case makes a bad knife. I have a couple that I really like, and would have no problem suggesting them to people who are just looking for a knife that performs it's function and aren't looking to collect knives. I just don't understand why they include statements like these, and have a hard time defending them to people that become disappointed after expecting them to live up to those statements. I think you're better off accepting the fact that they're a midgrade knife and ignore the marketing hype. If you go in with those standards you'll get a fine knife that'll last you a lifetime and once in a while you'll be surprised to get a really nice knife out of them that rivals the higher end knives that collectors covet.
 
QJerry said:
That's a bad argument or an informal fallacy of the 'No true Scotsman' kind: Because you don't like SAK's and you are a traditional lover, other 'real' traditional lovers should not like SAK's.

Also it implies that any man-made knife is less well-made than a machine-made knife, I beg to differ.

We were talking about lack in quality control, this means that the Case knives are handled by too few humans.
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QJerry, the "smiley face" means I was joking. I like and own swiss army knives, I just don't think it's a fair to compare them to a brass and bone case.

For what it's worth, good quality is not obtained by inspection just like poor quality is not a result of being "handled by too few humans." Quality is about controlled processes and humans, by nature, are a "hard to control" element in manufacturing, thus the more automated factories will make more "perfect" knives. That's why "mid-tech" knives (like the Case-Bose collaborations) are so popular and good; perfect machining with hand fitting and assembly.

Personally, I believe there are too many people in this hobby who expect $150 quality out of $50 knives and $500 quality out of $350 knives.

But to answer the original question, "it is just me (or you)" :)
 
Cory Hess said:
Thanks for posting that video, rma. I know that similar videos have been posted before, but I never went to watch one before. I knew that they used some automation, but was surprised to see that assembly is the first stage where any skilled hands actually touch the knives. Everything before that is just feeding parts into a machine that does the actual work. I guess when they say "Every knife is hand crafted" what they mean is that every knife is hand assembled with machine crafted parts.

You'll also notice that they sprinkle the same language throughout the film that you find in their marketing literature. ("perfect blades", "Details, details, details. We fuss over them endlessly because they payoff with the perfect knife.", etc.) Maybe these promises are why we see these threads pop up with such frequency?

Just to clarify, I don't think that Case makes a bad knife. I have a couple that I really like, and would have no problem suggesting them to people who are just looking for a knife that performs it's function and aren't looking to collect knives. I just don't understand why they include statements like these, and have a hard time defending them to people that become disappointed after expecting them to live up to those statements. I think you're better off accepting the fact that they're a midgrade knife and ignore the marketing hype. If you go in with those standards you'll get a fine knife that'll last you a lifetime and once in a while you'll be surprised to get a really nice knife out of them that rivals the higher end knives that collectors covet.
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I think you are spot on. I really wish Case would drop that whole XX tested thing. I've seen far too many of them that couldn't have been tested and left the factory as "perfect collectables". When they start spinning that folksy stuff it reminds me some of the ridiculous Cold Steel mall ninja claims. I like CS stuff too, but their marketing is eye rolling. Just tell it how it is, and I'll buy it if it's good. I don't need to see Lynn re-murder a slab of beef to know that a knife will cut;)

Case would have a lot less disappointed purchasers if they marketed their stuff as an everyday working man's companion instead of some artisan-centric $40 cutlery perfection fluff piece. Getting a decent carbon steel folder with acceptable walk and talk for $25-$50 is perfectly reasonable. Anyone expecting legendary craftsmanship at that price-point is fooling themselves or is grossly misinformed.
 
willgoy said:
I'm just about to buy a Swayback in Damascus with that Creme brulee bone. So let's see....

It's quite costly, the more so for me now the Euro has taken a nosedive against the Dollar....:grumpy:

Sending stuff back across the ocean is never easy :eek: But those handles and that blade steel is like a Siren :D

Fingers crossed and all that!
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Just got mine, flawless with superb Fit & finish.





Phat swedge, great sharp point. slight burr but very sharp

 
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Steely_Gunz said:
I think you are spot on. I really wish Case would drop that whole XX tested thing. I've seen far too many of them that couldn't have been tested and left the factory as "perfect collectables". When they start spinning that folksy stuff it reminds me some of the ridiculous Cold Steel mall ninja claims. I like CS stuff too, but their marketing is eye rolling. Just tell it how it is, and I'll buy it if it's good. I don't need to see Lynn re-murder a slab of beef to know that a knife will cut;)

Case would have a lot less disappointed purchasers if they marketed their stuff as an everyday working man's companion instead of some artisan-centric $40 cutlery perfection fluff piece. Getting a decent carbon steel folder with acceptable walk and talk for $25-$50 is perfectly reasonable. Anyone expecting legendary craftsmanship at that price-point is fooling themselves or is grossly misinformed.
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The "Tested XX" was put in place as it was a double test of the hardness of the blade. In that sense, I bet the steel is exactly as it is supposed to be from Case.
 
Woodrow F Call said:
The "Tested XX" was put in place as it was a double test of the hardness of the blade. In that sense, I bet the steel is exactly as it is supposed to be from Case.
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Ahh that makes sense. Thanks. You're right. I'm sure they are 100% with that then.
 
chuckgp Many thanks for your pix! Generally takes about a week for a packet to get from Knoxville to here in Europe, very reasonable. If mine looks like yours the wait is going to be intolerable:D:eek: The bone seems like it could age very nicely and grand contrast with the Damascus blade, well smart:thumbup:

Here's a Mini Copperhead I got back last May, no complaints about the finish and the Root Beer Bone is unusual and decently thick too. Nearly all of my CASE knives have been decent to excellent with only a couple of undesirables. However, the more expensive ones are the ones I've had less luck with, frustratingly:mad:

IMG_1402.jpg


Regards, Will
 
Anytime Will, and good luck with yours!
Love to see the pics when you can.

Just punched a hole in my finger with that sharp point, almost a vicious as my GEC #61 and the sharpest I have out of 4 total swaybacks
 
Woodrow F Call said:
The "Tested XX" was put in place as it was a double test of the hardness of the blade. In that sense, I bet the steel is exactly as it is supposed to be from Case.
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The term "Tested XX" is probably meaningless nowadays. I would imagine Case buys steel made to spec from finishing mill somewhere. I would be very surprised if Case actually did any testing of the blade steel on their own. In the days when the Tested XX stamp was used on the blades, Case did their own heat treat and testing. I seriously doubt that's the case today. Their heat treat is probably done by Peters Heat Treat in Warren, PA.
 
And please don't misunderstand my posts. I by no means want to bash Case Knives. They make a good product for what they are. A good, solid, working man's knife. Just like another American Company, Harley Davidson, their marketing is much better than their product. Since the very earliest days of Case Brothers Cutlery Co., marketing is what they were best at. The Case Brothers were not Cutlers at all. They were "Jobbers". They would order an SFO from a cutlery manufacturer, hop on the latest high speed transportation (the rail road) and sell the knives far and wide. And they were very successful at this. By the early 1900's, 1910 or thereabouts, they built their own Factory, where they employed many Cutlers. And the Case's still road the rails, and drove their Model T, and sold knives far and wide. By the 1930's, Case Knives were in every Mom and Pop Hardware store in the country. They were the most sought after Brand. They became the "All American Brand". Although even then, as today, there were other brands that were just as good, maybe better, than Case. My whole point here is it all goes back to Marketing. Case sells a decent knife for the money, they always have, but they are what they are. And I mean no disrespect to the Brand, I have a few hundred myself, but I also have no illusions.
 
rma100 said:
The term "Tested XX" is probably meaningless nowadays. I would imagine Case buys steel made to spec from finishing mill somewhere. I would be very surprised if Case actually did any testing of the blade steel on their own. In the days when the Tested XX stamp was used on the blades, Case did their own heat treat and testing. I seriously doubt that's the case today. Their heat treat is probably done by Peters Heat Treat in Warren, PA.
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No doubt this is true. But, I bet Case steel is more consistent today than it was back in the old days. The XX Tested still makes sense in my mind. Even if it is a bit marketing driven.
 
rma100 said:
The term "Tested XX" is probably meaningless nowadays. I would imagine Case buys steel made to spec from finishing mill somewhere. I would be very surprised if Case actually did any testing of the blade steel on their own. In the days when the Tested XX stamp was used on the blades, Case did their own heat treat and testing. I seriously doubt that's the case today. Their heat treat is probably done by Peters Heat Treat in Warren, PA.
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Case does indeed heat treat their own blades in house, at least they did in 2008 when I toured the plant.
 
cilohaefink said:
Case does indeed heat treat their own blades in house, at least they did in 2008 when I toured the plant.
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The earlier-linked video of the Case Factory Tour even touches on that, and shows the bins of blades being fed into the heat-treat furnace (about 1:10 into the video), and mentioning temperatures for heat treat and quench.


David
 
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brownshoe said:
QJerry, the "smiley face" means I was joking. I like and own swiss army knives, I just don't think it's a fair to compare them to a brass and bone case.

For what it's worth, good quality is not obtained by inspection just like poor quality is not a result of being "handled by too few humans." Quality is about controlled processes and humans, by nature, are a "hard to control" element in manufacturing, thus the more automated factories will make more "perfect" knives. That's why "mid-tech" knives (like the Case-Bose collaborations) are so popular and good; perfect machining with hand fitting and assembly.

Personally, I believe there are too many people in this hobby who expect $150 quality out of $50 knives and $500 quality out of $350 knives.

But to answer the original question, "it is just me (or you)" :)
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Allright (tumbling off high horse..)

I know how quality works, just saying with all these issues there should be somebody on the end of the line rejecting the substandard knives.

And I'll shut up now...
 
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Quick chuckgp and wilgoy sell those knives, they must be Case knock-offs because they don't make anything that nice. they only produce sub standard products according to most people in this thread.
Tracy
 
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