First GEC (#43): Disappointing fit, finish and back spring

The #71 is just a simple knife; you might call it a blue collar knife or a working man's knife. I have a #71 and while it was nicely made, I didn't like using it because of the drop point blade profile. I carried it for about 3 months and then parked it. And yes, it is well regarded here. I personally would send the knife back to GEC and wait as necessary if the dealer does not have a replacement.
 
Bullnose is a shadow pattern with a simple blade profile.

Oregon trapper has a bolster, shield, and swedge on the blade. The blade may be a little thinner behind the edge too.

There are just more aesthetic aspects to the 43. They are both fine knives.
 
22-rimfire said:
The #71 is just a simple knife; you might call it a blue collar knife or a working man's knife. I have a #71 and while it was nicely made, I didn't like using it because of the drop point blade profile. I carried it for about 3 months and then parked it. And yes, it is well regarded here. I personally would send the knife back to GEC and wait as necessary if the dealer does not have a replacement.
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JTB_5 said:
Bullnose is a shadow pattern with a simple blade profile.
Oregon trapper has a bolster, shield, and swedge on the blade. The blade may be a little thinner behind the edge too. There are just more aesthetic aspects to the 43. They are both fine knives.
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Simple is fine by me. I like drop point blades well enough, too. I have to admit, the shield and bolsters on the #43 look great, especially with a brushed finish. But in the end, adornments on a working knife aren't necessary for me (though, granted, I did gripe about said adornments being scuffed out of the box -- ha). I like the simple appearance of a shadow pattern. The clip point on the #43 does look great, though.
 
edgecentricity said:
Hi all,

I recently received my first GEC -- a #43 Oregon Trapper in Natural Micarta. Hate to say it, but after reading so much about GEC's high standard of quality, it's rather a disappointment.

  • The blade doesn't sit flush with the back spring in the open position
  • The bottom corner of the ricasso is crudely cut -- one corner is rounded, and it looks like there's a little chip in it.
  • The curbed portion of the back spring, at the butt end of the knife, is cut unevenly, on an angle.
  • The shield and one of the bolsters have scuff marks on them straight out of the package.
  • And most bothersome is the back spring -- it's on the weak side (I can easily push the blade closed with my thumb), and sluggish, barely snapping closed, and not at all without some encouragement.
A pity -- the rest of the knife is quite well done, but for seventy-odd dollars, I expected better, doubly so from a company known for its good fit and finish. I'm debating whether to return the knife, or oil, flush and clean it, then sand down the rough areas.

Thoughts?
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  • GEC is normally very good about flush springs, although they're still sometimes a little bit of. You didn't mention if it was a hair low or high, or whether it was off by quite a bit.
  • Can't say much about the blade tang without a picture to go by.
  • That is perfectly normal. I'm not sure if I've seen one from GEC that was straight.
  • I've had scuffs on a few. It's bothersome, but nothing that doesn't take all of 60 seconds to fix.
  • Lots of people have had issues with weak backsprings on the 43 run. My micarta felt a tad sluggish at first, but improved greatly with a cleaning, oiling, and some opening and closing. Walk and talk is now a solid 6.5 out of 10. Just about perfect.
 
edgecentricity said:
Hi all,

I recently received my first GEC -- a #43 Oregon Trapper in Natural Micarta. Hate to say it, but after reading so much about GEC's high standard of quality, it's rather a disappointment.

  • The blade doesn't sit flush with the back spring in the open position
  • The bottom corner of the ricasso is crudely cut -- one corner is rounded, and it looks like there's a little chip in it.
  • The curbed portion of the back spring, at the butt end of the knife, is cut unevenly, on an angle.
  • The shield and one of the bolsters have scuff marks on them straight out of the package.
  • And most bothersome is the back spring -- it's on the weak side (I can easily push the blade closed with my thumb), and sluggish, barely snapping closed, and not at all without some encouragement.
A pity -- the rest of the knife is quite well done, but for seventy-odd dollars, I expected better, doubly so from a company known for its good fit and finish. I'm debating whether to return the knife, or oil, flush and clean it, then sand down the rough areas.

Thoughts?
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"Thoughts?"

To be able to give thoughts about it, photos of each of the bulleted problems are necessary. Sometimes there's a large difference in expectations. And often things are a matter of degree. Seeing the problems gives people a chance to form an opinion and give you their own thoughts.

Sorry to hear the knife wasn't satisfactory.
 
edgecentricity said:
Hi all,

I recently received my first GEC -- a #43 Oregon Trapper in Natural Micarta. Hate to say it, but after reading so much about GEC's high standard of quality, it's rather a disappointment.

  • The blade doesn't sit flush with the back spring in the open position
  • Underblading - common on many knives
  • The bottom corner of the ricasso is crudely cut -- one corner is rounded, and it looks like there's a little chip in it.
  • Shouldn't be a problem - minor issue.
  • The curbed portion of the back spring, at the butt end of the knife, is cut unevenly, on an angle.
  • Again, shouldn't be a problem.
  • The shield and one of the bolsters have scuff marks on them straight out of the package.
  • Buy some Flitz, use a rag and polish the scuff marks out.
  • And most bothersome is the back spring -- it's on the weak side (I can easily push the blade closed with my thumb), and sluggish, barely snapping closed, and not at all without some encouragement.
  • Flush out the joints and then oil the joints.
A pity -- the rest of the knife is quite well done, but for seventy-odd dollars, I expected better, doubly so from a company known for its good fit and finish. I'm debating whether to return the knife, or oil, flush and clean it, then sand down the rough areas.

Thoughts?
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GEC knives are not custom knives. Their cutlers don't have all day to sit around and rub and polish each knife. Ya got an itty bitty chip in the ricasso - so what. It's a non-custom knife.

There are faults to be found on every knife GEC sends out of it's shop if we all look hard enough - even our annual forum knives that they are suppose to take extra care with have faults of one kind or another.

My advice is to just pocket the knife, use it, and enjoy it..
 
Both models make an exceptional ”hard work” knife, especially in Micarta. As others have mentioned the significant Differences (besides size and blade profile) are aesthetic and come down to personal preference/desire. The price point on the Bullnose is such that I would highly recommend anyone seeking a knife they don't intend to baby pick one up and get a good feel for the abuse that carbon and Micarta/Delrin can handle. Also, it's a great knife to perfect your sharpening skills without stressing.

GEC’s quality control is top notch, but even the best manufacturers of any product occasionally have things slip through the cracks. The mark of a good company and their distributors is that they stand behind their products when shortfalls occur, and that is something you have with GEC and the fine folks who sell their knives and frequent the traditional subforum.

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I don't see anything other than the spring strength in the original post that is any different than any knife GEC/Queen/Bulldog/Fight'n Rooster made in the last 30 years. These knives are not laser cut, tumbled for days, etc. They are stamped out and assembled as a tool.

  • It is called "under-bladed"; because it takes a lot of time to perfectly match them up and the factory definitely does not want the blade higher than the spring.
  • The only tuning done here is for the set depth; otherwise it is a non-functional aspect.
  • Again, non-functional and not ground / buffed for that reason.
  • I do wish they would buff these right before the tube them; but the soft NS rubs others on the trays.
  • Action was documented in discussions the last month or so as light on the 43; the 71 is going to go to the other extreme.
For reasons unknown (I have my opinion), the expectations have increased dramatically as of the last 10 years. But these guys trying to pay $20+/hr and make a knife on 80 y/o equipment, in an 80 y/o fashion, are never going to accommodate these types of expectations. It doesn't make them defects, it just means they can't / won't meet your expectations.

There are other issues that show up across the board that are actual defects or at least the process needs tuned. But it is not really fair for us to place brand new requirements on makers today, that were never a requirement in the past. Once the folks that appreciate the old style slipjoints fade away - so will the factories like GEC.
 
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My experience of GEC's QC has been very satisfying indeed. In particular, they avoid proud or sunk springs on open/close and that's a feature I appreciate. However, if the knife has weak to no snap then you must send it back to the dealer for exchange/refund, this is entirely reasonable and I think most of us would feel the same.

I feel certain that subsequent GECs will prove very satisfying for you once you get this sorted out. It's disappointing indeed that you had to have this on your very first GEC but it is atypical believe me.

Thanks, Will
 
Thanks for your effort Mike. Absolutely no issue in those pictures warranting a return of any assembly line knife such as a GEC, Case, Queen, Buck, etc..
 
Took me a few knives before I understood what to expect from traditional makers like GEC. Literally every GEC of mine has something that can be considered an imperfection or several. I think sometimes their reputation may seem better than your actual experiences because those reviews are coming from people who have owned knives from several makers in this space and know what is nornal, what they can fix by cleaning or filing something here or will become better over time.
 
The examples from the 4 line will help someone new to knives understand the issues. Thank you for posting them, Mike. But photos of the OP's actual knife are what I would want to see to before coming to a conclusion.

One of the greatest custom knife makers, Ryuichi Kawamura, makes knives with blades that are not flush with the springs. I don't know if it is the same on all of his knives but it that way on the dozen or so that I've seen. Some old knives were made that way also. I suspect that I'd find some or maybe all of the issues to be within norm or acceptable. But everything is a matter of degree and I can't say without seeing the knife. The walk and talk can only be described or shown in a video but photos would be helpful for the rest.

I agree that standards have changed. I think part of it is that a lot of people buying traditional knives are more familiar with modern knives that are manufactured very differently. Another reason is that the perceptions seem to have changed from knives as tools to knives as jewelry. Also, with GEC's greater attention paid to (sometimes minor) things that collectors like to obsess over (like blade centering and flush springs), we become pickier and pickier to find things to complain about. ;)
 
blanco112 said:
people who have owned knives from several makers in this space and know what is nornal, what they can fix by cleaning or filing something here or will become better over time.
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^^ This has been my approach. I have somewhere in the vicinity of 100 traditional knives, almost all purchased either never-opened directly from dealers or used from the Exchange forums here, or the big auction site. Never had a single one that I thought needed to go back to a dealer or be sent off to the factory.

Some were just fine as received. Many had little things that can easily be either ignored, or fixed with very basic skills and tools.

There are many posts (not necessarily in this thread, but just in general) where people point out things as flaws that I just either never noticed, noticed but didn't care about, noticed but thought it was perfectly normal, noticed and fixed myself, or noticed and lived with.

I come from the days before photographing everything with high-definition macro zoom lenses was common, and where taking a file, steel wool, sandpaper, metal polish, and sharpening stones to a pocket knife is just normal maintenance and tinkering. So maybe people's tastes have become exceptionally refined, and I am just too uninformed to recognize what are clearly flaws. Tell ya what, though, I am a lot happier with my purchases than those that demand utter perfection from sub-$100 factory produced pocket knives.

This is not a shot at the OP - if you got a knife that has a constellation of issues that make you unhappy, then by all means send it back for a refund or send it in for repair. The only thing you mentioned that would be a big problem for me was that weak spring. But I'd make the effort first to give it a good cleaning and lubing to see if that fixed it.

I got a gorgeous GEC 15 Boys Knife from Mike at CollectorKnives, that I thought was going to be the first ever I had to send back. The pull on the main blade was just horrendous. I thought I was going to need pliers to open it. However, a good thorough cleaning of the joint in hot soapy water, followed by good lubrication, and then working the blade back and forth (taped for safety) and I felt a little "crunch" as some piece of grit from the manufacturing process finally gave way and came out, and then that knife was just perfect. Went from having to force it to full open and to full closed, to having ideal walk and talk and a nice firm snap.

Though this is not the forum to discuss it, I had a Zero Tolerance knife that was exceptionally hard to open using the flipper, which took over a month or frequent opening to break in, but now it works great.

So keep in mind that any new pocket knife may have "some user adjustment required."
 
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Most everything listed below is very inexpensive and will come in handy to maintain the fit & finish of your knives :)

------

GEC Pocketknife *tube lottery* Survival Kit

Cream toothpaste (non abrasive)
Soft & medium toothbrushes
Extra fine steel wool
1000 and/or higher grit sandpaper
Wooden Popsicle sticks
Mineral oil
WD-40
Q tips
Pipe cleaners
Small jewelers file(s)
Simichrome or Flitz polish
Bark river white compound
Soft goat leather cloth


Advanced Items

Dremel
Ultrasonic

------

This is a great hobby! Hope you continue buying GEC's :D
 
jc57 said:
^^ This has been my approach. I have somewhere in the vicinity of 100 traditional knives, almost all purchased either never-opened directly from dealers or used from the Exchange forums here, or the big auction site. Never had a single one that I thought needed to go back to a dealer or be sent off to the factory.

Some were just fine as received. Many had little things that can easily be either ignored, or fixed with very basic skills and tools.

There are many posts (not necessarily in this thread, but just in general) where people point out things as flaws that I just either never noticed, noticed but didn't care about, noticed but thought it was perfectly normal, noticed and fixed myself, or noticed and lived with.

I come from the days before photographing everything with high-definition macro zoom lenses was common, and where taking a file, steel wool, sandpaper, metal polish, and sharpening stones to a pocket knife is just normal maintenance and tinkering. So maybe people's tastes have become exceptionally refined, and I am just too uninformed to recognize what are clearly flaws. Tell ya what, though, I am a lot happier with my purchases than those that demand utter perfection from sub-$100 factory produced pocket knives.

This is not a shot at the OP - if you got a knife that has a constellation of issues that make you unhappy, then by all means send it back for a refund or send it in for repair. The only thing you mentioned that would be a big problem for me was that weak spring. But I'd make the effort first to give it a good cleaning and lubing to see if that fixed it.

I got a gorgeous GEC 15 Boys Knife from Mike at CollectorKnives, that I thought was going to be the first ever I had to send back. The pull on the main blade was just horrendous. I thought I was going to need pliers to open it. However, a good thorough cleaning of the joint in hot soapy water, followed by good lubrication, and then working the blade back and forth (taped for safety) and I felt a little "crunch" as some piece of grit from the manufacturing process finally gave way and came out, and then that knife was just perfect. Went from having to force it to full open and to full closed, to having ideal walk and talk and a nice firm snap.

Though this is not the forum to discuss it, I had a Zero Tolerance knife that was exceptionally hard to open using the flipper, which took over a month or frequent opening to break in, but now it works great.

So keep in mind that any new pocket knife may have "some user adjustment required."
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I agree 100%. In the last 5 years of buying from the exchange or from dealers only one inexpensive knife had a severe problem, and that was replaced the next time I made a purchase. One thing to add. I've heard numerous complaints of GEC's lockbacks. I must be very lucky then because I've never encountered that. Maybe it's my years as an antiques dealer that allows me to appreciate the hand work that goes into a product while minimizing small cosmetic discrepancies.
 
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