First gun help

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SilentJohn

Joined
Feb 11, 2008
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I am looking to buy my first gun very soon I was looking at a schofield revolver but I heard that they can't handle modern loads ( if you own one please tell me I'm wrong! ) so now I am moving on

I am eyeing down the magnum research baby eagle .40 full size in steel

or the sig sauer P220 match elite

I really would love opinions of both and possibly the schof if you own one
 
What is role or purpose of this gun for you?
Self/home defense
Conceal Carry
Target shooting
 
all 3 actually but mostly home/self defense and I do plan to try and get a carry permit

alwayscarry I have $1200 to spend maybe a little more I know this will cost a bag of cash but I want a reliable gun and a good company.

I've heard that uberti will tell some customers to piss off its not their problem the gun isn't working right
 
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Well it sounds like you have a healthy budget for a first. I'd go to a range and rent a few and see what you like best. Sig's are great. I've also heard the Springfield XD series has improved over the years.
 
1) any of the modern schofield replicas will handle modern commercially produced ammunition in the caliber in which it is chambered for. .38 Special, .45 Colt, .44-40 and .44 Russian. The problem is finding generally available 44-40 and 44 Russian if you go that route as opposed to .35 or .45 Colt.

2) comparing the baby eagle to a Sig Elite match is like putting a Chevy Malibu next to a Porsche 911 and asking which one should I get.

I'm basing the following on your two posts above:

As your first firearms purchase I advise you to get something you can afford to shoot often if you plan on gaining any proficiency. If you truly plan to carry it I strongly advise you go through some level of training and become highly proficient as if the need to use it ever arises you are 100% responsible for every round that leaves the barrel.

The Schofield is a relic. In the modern day why would you limit yourself to 6 rounds and a slow reload out of a gun with archaic sights? And as far as CC, unless you ride horse back I don't see that happening comfortably or very practical. And good luck finding ammo at a reasonable price if you go with the two odd ball chamberings. If you can find it at all locally.

The Baby Eagle, which is a Jericho clone, is a rock solid gun with no finesse. It's very functional and reliable. Draw back is it weighs a ton and unless your body frame can handle it, might be uncomfortable. Coming out of a night stand awesome, target shooting at the range, you'll have combat accuracy.

The Sig Elite........ well besides the triple price tag when compared to the Baby eagle, your stepping up to a .45 which will be a different learning curb to master compared to the Baby Eagle, less capacity, much more refined and better finished. A better trigger, different controls. The list go on.

To say one is better than the other would be unfair as we truly don't know what he end game will be with your purchase. I understand what you think it will be but having been in the industry for 14 years I have learned that peoples intentions don't always translate out.

My advice, don't buy anything. Find a shop that rents handguns and invest a couple hundred dollars in finding out what your likes, dislikes and comfort levels are. Even better, if you have a friend with guns ask him or her to take you on a range date. This advice you can take to the bank.

Good Luck
 
i thought about it heavily but would a full size DE in 44. be practical

i dont want to go with a 1911 because i hear they can be a pain in the ass
 
Lots of good info here.

I'd caution you that SIG CQ has changed since Cohen took over the company and start using things like MIM parts. They really aren't the "hell and back" handguns they used to be famous for.

My best advice is go to the range and try a few on. It might be the best handgun in the world but if it doesn't fit YOU it's almost useless. If you can manage to test fire a few prior to making your decision that would be even better.
 
The 1911 has been in use for more than a century. If it were that much of a pain in the ass, it would not have lasted so long. My $0.02.
 
SteyrAUG said:
Lots of good info here.

I'd caution you that SIG CQ has changed since Cohen took over the company and start using things like MIM parts. They really aren't the "hell and back" handguns they used to be famous for.

My best advice is go to the range and try a few on. It might be the best handgun in the world but if it doesn't fit YOU it's almost useless. If you can manage to test fire a few prior to making your decision that would be even better.
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This is the best advice. Try before you buy. I personally love Walther hand guns. I have a PPQ, PPS, and p22. Second choice would be smith and Wesson m&p followed by Glock.
 
I own 18 pistols. 12 are 1911s, so obviously I don't think they are a pain in the ass at all. ;)

You really do need to find out what works best for you. The 1911 is my favorite weapon system, but it's not for everyone. I would trust my life to every 1911 I own, and I do to two of them. One is my carry gun and the other is in my nightstand. Buy the right 1911, and you won't have any issues. Buy one from the right company, and they'll fix any issues if you do. Colt and Springfield are what I'd look at in your range.

If you're not a fan of 1911s, I'd recommend the Springfield XD/XDm, Glock or HK USP. Give those a look, and try them out if you can. Any of them will suit your needs just fine, despite what brand loyalists will say about whatever pistol they don't own. I own all three, and my favorite is the XDm. Again, I just like the XDm, for its ergonomics and I shoot it better than the others.

I'd also recommend maybe buying more than one. If I had $1200 to spend on my first, I'd probably get something like a 10/22 and an XD. Spend the rest on ammo and range time with both. Buying any firearm, especially your first should be about what fits you, and no one can really tell you which that is.
 
bobs1415 said:
The 1911 has been in use for more than a century. If it were that much of a pain in the ass, it would not have lasted so long. My $0.02.
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Nothing wrong with a 1911, the problem I ran into was carry issues with my preferred holsters. They were open top retention holsters so every time I got in or out of a car and twisted to lock or unlock my seat belt I would frequently unlock my 1911 as well.

I still remember the first time it happened hearing a faint metallic "click" right after the seat belt "click." Thankfully I'm OCD enough that I checked and sure as hell I clicked the safety off my 1911. Put the thumb safety back on and when I got out of the car (even though I never heard it) I did a OCD check and my safety was off again.

I found a few holsters that protected the safety setting but had other issues that made me reject them and I came to completely understand the brilliant design of the WWI / WWII flap holster.

Long story short I now carry my 1911s as often as I carry Glocks, which isn't very often.
 
SteyrAUG said:
Nothing wrong with a 1911, the problem I ran into was carry issues with my preferred holsters. They were open top retention holsters so every time I got in or out of a car and twisted to lock or unlock my seat belt I would frequently unlock my 1911 as well.

I still remember the first time it happened hearing a faint metallic "click" right after the seat belt "click." Thankfully I'm OCD enough that I checked and sure as hell I clicked the safety off my 1911. Put the thumb safety back on and when I got out of the car (even though I never heard it) I did a OCD check and my safety was off again.

I found a few holsters that protected the safety setting but had other issues that made me reject them and I came to completely understand the brilliant design of the WWI / WWII flap holster.

Long story short I now carry my 1911s as often as I carry Glocks, which isn't very often.
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Ambidextrous safety? Never had that problem with my WC Commander in a Milt Sparks.
 
SilentJohn said:
I am eyeing down the magnum research baby eagle .40 full size in steel
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I cannot recommend this. At all. It was my first hand gun, but in 9mm. I'm not even going to explain how crappy it was. Just sift through my 10+ page thread in another forum recounting all of the failures it had. http://www.941forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=482 <---and if you can't be bothered doing the research, the entire thread is sort of a journal with each range session with the 941. The first post may only indicate 950 rounds, but by the time you get to the end, it will be in the thousands. I don't recall exactly how many rounds I put through it, but over 8000 in less than a year and a half, which is more than many people put through a gun in their entire life time, excluding the few of us that shoot competition.

If you want a CZ based gun, get the real deal. I was so off put by the 941 that it took years before I got enough courage to try another CZ based firearm. A few months ago, I decided to give it another go, but with an actual CZ this time. Night and day difference in terms of reliability. If it's the looks thing that got you on the 941, the CZ SP-01 looks almost identical. If you want an even closer match, check out the CZ Phantom. It looks the most like a 941, but it's polymer framed.

I don't know of any folks that haven't had issues on 941s, maybe not as numerous or frequent as I did, but definitely enough to scratch off the gun on the list of "reliable". 2% failure rate is not acceptable to me, not even for a home defense gun.

What can I recommend?
CZ75/SP-01/Shadow/Accu-shadow (I have an Accu-shadow)
M&P (bro shoots an M&P9 Pro)
HKs (I used to shoot an HK45)
Glocks (hate them, but super reliable. Shot my friend's plenty)
Sigs (shot my same friend's Sig 220 a lot) EDIT 3: Sigs prior to the QC fiasco is what I should have said.
XDs and PPQs (least amount of experience with these having only shot a few rounds through them. PPQ prob has the best feeling trigger out of any polymer framed gun)

Only 1911 I shot was a Wilson Combat CQB Elite, so I won't comment on other 1911s that cost hundreds/thousands less.

EDIT: Forgot to mention Browning Hi-powers. I love mine, but the grip actually feels a bit boxy compared to my CZ. My CZ also holds a lot more in the magazine. The single action on a Hi-power is heavy, but smooth out of the box. The trigger pull distance is about as close as you'll get to a mouse click if that's your thing. Its weight is deceptively light considering it's a full framed steel firearm.

EDIT 2: Did you seriously consider a .44 magnum Desert Eagle as your first hand gun? I've seen bigger people than you having trouble handling the recoil on that gun. Also, .44 mag is not exactly cheap to shoot unless you reload your own ammo. I also never see any at Wally World. Not to bruise your ego, but you should prob start somewhere that's not .44 magnum. Even the .40 s&w is a bit for many people. Can they be handled? Absolutely. Anything can be mastered. First gun choice? I'd go with a soft shooting .45 over a .40 if you want to start big on a first hand gun. If you can be convinced otherwise, I'd look at 9mm as a first. Contrary to all the nonsense you'll hear or have already heard, modern day pistol rounds tend to be pretty much equal in effectiveness (or ineffectiveness depending on which school of thought you subscribe to).

So really, the question is why start on a caliber that will at best, slow down your follow up shots, and at worst make you hate shooting that caliber? Unless you just happen to like recoil, which is understandable if that's the case. Tons of people do. I suppose it's the adrenaline rush you get. I like it, but I tend to like more practical things for firearms. I also reload, so I'm not limited by selection.
 
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That sucks about your 1st experience with the platform. Who's gun was it? A MR BE or a MR imported Jericho? Or another?
 
ROLEXrifleman said:
That sucks about your 1st experience with the platform. Who's gun was it? A MR BE or a MR imported Jericho? Or another?
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They are all the same (except for the few years when IMI/IWI switched from polygonal rifling to land and groove rifling). They are all made by IMI/IWI and imported to the US by whoever it happens to be at the time. Mine was a KBI/Charles Daly and the last of the ones marked as Jericho 941 before they quit importing them for a few years. A couple years later, Kahr Arms started importing them. They are the current importers. I believe the current marking is Baby Eagle II, but not too sure. I quit following the 941 stuff after I got rid of mine. The only thing that was great about it was the looks and trigger feel which is pretty decent, but eclipsed by a similarly priced CZ.
 
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IMO. The best advice is to take a class and get experience with a number of different firearms. If you decide to do it on your own; get a pistol that fits your hand. Generally, the wheel guns are simpler and more reliable than the autos, usually when swithching ammo.
 
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