First hand made knife.

R

RALPH B

Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
30
Hello BF,
New guy from Long Island here. Looking to make my first hand made knife and need some input. I have read that your first knife should be hand made with out the use of power tools. That sounds cool but I don't think I can jump in to project and not use one power tool, but let me know how you feel about that. I have been practicing with mild steel purchased from Hommers and I think I am ready. So what I need to know is, can you purchase 1085 or 1090 already annealed? Also what do you think about the carbon steel, that home depot sells? Sales person at HD does not really know what type of steel it is, just that its carbon steel and not galvanized. Any advice would help, thanks.
 
Ralph,

Read the stickies. The answers to your questions (and many you have yet to conceive) are in the stickies.

The steel HD sells is welding steel... low carbon... useless for knifemaking.

Annealed steel is available from Aldo, at njsteelbaron.com.
 
Most of the time, steel comes from the manufacturer annealed. The carbon steel from home depot is not suitable for knives, and that's about all I can tell you about that.

I would call Aldo at njsteel baron... Quality steel from a good guy, and it's not expensive. When I called to make an order, he even offered to walk me through the heat treat over the phone as I did it.
 
+1 for steel from Aldo.
Also read this sticky,twice.If you have questions, ask we wil try to answer.
Welcome to our addiction.
Stan
 
You may want to send out the 1095 for HT, as it's a tricky hyper eutectoid. Good luck on your first knife!
 
I used power tools for my first. I don't see why you necessarily HAVE to do it by hand. Just keep a light touch so as to screw up as slowly as possible. Good luck with your first, and welcome to the addiction!

If you want to send out for heat treat, I recommend Darrin Sanders on here. He does a fantastic job with 1095, which is what I tend to use most often (along with 5160).
 
crimsonfalcon07 said:
I used power tools for my first. I don't see why you necessarily HAVE to do it by hand. Just keep a light touch so as to screw up as slowly as possible. Good luck with your first, and welcome to the addiction!

If you want to send out for heat treat, I recommend Darrin Sanders on here. He does a fantastic job with 1095, which is what I tend to use most often (along with 5160).
Click to expand...

I agree with both statements! I don't think you NEED to use hand tools if you got the power tools, and Darin Sanders. I got some 1095 heat treated by him, and he's a great guy and a great heat treater!
 
Welcome to Bladeforums Shop Talk.
Two things you need to do:
1) Fill out your profile.
2) Read the stickies.

This sticky will walk you through it.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/694673-How-to-instructions-for-making-a-knife
You will want some power tools, but a belt grinder is not needed. The tools needed are covered.
Make some drawings and post them here and you will get a lot of good advise on shape and such. There are many errors avoided this way.
 
I made my first knife completely with hand tools.

And I must say, It was kind of unnecessary, honestly.
I have a small 1 x 30 sander and a drill press, both of which I didn't use,
But would have been a lot of help.

So, just something to think about.
 
Have a look at this

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...l-to-use-for-my-knife?p=11324116#post11324116

The Count's Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V27

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, you may have a helpful neighbour, or local Hammerin; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Please fill out your profile with your location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment, hobbies.

Look at the threads stickied not all are expired.

The basics in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save http://www.2shared.com/document/hk4wQruA/Absolute_Cheapskate_Way_to_Sta.html
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website http://www.hossom.com/jonesy/


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694673

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?8og1ix21j9dcz4n

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?02ra4do6xyzayeq

Bob Egnath how to's http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9435307&postcount=43

BladeForums - E-books or Google books http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203


I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
Clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:

Think thin.
Forget swords, Saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.

Start with a drawing.
Show it to us, we love to see and comment on photos.
Then make a cardboard cutout template & draw in handles, pins and such
Then use wood, paint sticks are free & close to the right size.
If it “feels right”. If it feels right it usually “looks right“

How to post a photo on BF
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...AL-Displaying-your-photographs-on-BladeForums

See the Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, the Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

Bob Engnath Patterns compiled into a PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?qgx7yebn77n77qx


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging - no specific knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF http://www.archive.org/download/elementarymachin00palmrich/elementarymachin00palmrich.pdf

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF http://ia700309.us.archive.org/6/items/completepractic00rosegoog/completepractic00rosegoog.pdf
Right Click and save link as.
It’s being reprinted now; you can get it for $20 ish

The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

Forget the Goop Quench.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type; even grocery store canola oil works much better for some steels.

Junkyard steel requires skill and experience to identify and heat treat it properly.
Forget Lawnmower blades and start with a new known steel type.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.


Videos

Don't be this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEOTtslHARQ

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.howtomakeaknife.net/FreeStuff/SafetyVideo.wmv

Many knifemaking videos are available, some better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

Basic Bladesmithing
"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

The best video on leather sheath making for beginners is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with inlays, machine stitching)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
Use a piece of known steel, not a file. I just post this as an example of doing it by hand with few tools.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too. Use the keywords “LurkerLurker torrent” “knifemakerC torrent” and others
Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/499...femaking_Basics_-_Make_a_Mora_Bushcraft_Knife

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

See a list of video reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dec78RQsokw

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
Forget about lawnmower blades ,files and other unknown junkyard steels.
For all the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use a known good steel.

If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, 1095, 1084
Or air quenched A2, CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.

For heat treating yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheapest & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

1095 is a good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 is "Hypereutectioid" and needs very precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K
Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/673173-Working-the-three-steel-types

If you are sending one or 2 knives out for heat treatment, use 154-CM or CPM-154 or CPM-s35vn and ship it out to TKS -Texas Knifemaker Supply
It's the cheapest way to do 1 or 2 because of HT minimum charges.

Suppliers List
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/member.php/246861-darrin-sanders Oil hardening steel onesies


Quenchants for Oil hardening steel
Forget the Goop Quench. Motor oil, it's toxic and doesn't work that well.

Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;

Grocery store canola oil works well enough for your first knife-if you use the right steel.

Brine and water are almost free, and technically correct for W1 and "water hardening" steels but a fast oil like Parks 50 and Houghton Houghto Quench K are less likely to give you broken blades.
If you use water or brine, expect to hear a "tink" and have a cracked or broken blade

Glue – Epoxy
Use a new package of slow setting, high strength epoxy to attach blades to handles and well as seal out moisture.
Surface Prep is vital, drill tang holes/ grind a hollow, roughen the surfaces with abrasive, blasting is best.
Ensure the surface is clean & no oil including fingerprints. Soap, Acetone & Alcohol, Blasting.
Clamp with moderate pressure= avoid a “glue starved joint” when all the adhesive is squeezed out.
These are well proven.
Brownell's Acraglas
West Systems G Flex
JB Weld


Grinder / Tools

In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential on a good grinder.
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than you first think.

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Files can be made from unhardenable steel, or steel similar to 1095 that needs a difficult HT
Just use 1084 instead of a file.

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg

Entry Level Grinders
Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921513000P?prdNo=3

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qfYT_m2Tw0


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html



VFD Variable Speed made simple

Simplest, and cheapest are hardly ever the same, but:
Step pulleys are not as cheap as you may think
Maska cast steel pulleys are good and well balanced $75 EACH here plus shaft, bearings, belt

It all adds up to about 1/2 the price of a KBAC-27D

I like direct drive, no belts and a VFD for about $200 over the price of the step pulleys with much finer control.

Yes you can get cheaper NEMA 1 VFD’s and build your own enclosure
Or you may find them cheaper at other retailers, but watch shipping.

Wayne Coe
http://www.waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/Motors___VFDs.html

VFD-
KBAC-27D

Motor
3 phase 220v 1.5 HP motor, TEFC, frame 56 or 56C,
RPM is up to you many are happy with a 1700 RPM running at double speed.
Make sure it has a footed base for the KMG and NWG, or a C flange face mount for Bader and GIB styles.
I get them on ebay, even with paying $80 for shipping to Canada I save $$$ on a used motor.


The 1.5 HP combination is the most common setup, as reported by Rob Frink in some thread somewhere
It allows you to plug into any 110vac, 15 amp outlet.
A 2 HP motor requires a 220vac input.

There are cheaper VFD units like the TECO, but the only VFD I have found that will run a 1.5 HP motor on a 110v 15 amp input is the KBAC27D

It is NEMA4, sealed from metal dust that can burnout the unit.
It has good community and company support, manuals, hook-up diagrams, photos and settings on Rob Frink’s website.

I like the fact that I can buy it from a local distributor in Canada.

Travis W reports running a 2 HP on a 110v circuit, but I haven’t tried it.

Hookup is dead simple
http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/VS-setup.html



Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and use safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
Goggle "Ed Caffrey lung cancer"

The minimum I would consider are silicone half masks with a P100 Filter
3M 7500
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediaw...Ox_Uev7qe17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS--&fn=CH7500FP.pdf

and North 7700
http://www.amazon.com/North-Safety-770030L-Silicone-Respirator/dp/B002C08YCW
http://www.amazon.com/North-7580P100-P100-Particulate-Cartridge/dp/B000UH6PSE/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b.

Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.
There are also prefilters that snap over the main filter for longer life.
There are 3 sizes, buy one in person at a safety supplier and get it fitted.

For beards, pick one of these
3M PAPR
Resp-O-Rator
3m Breathe Easy
Trend Airshield Pro
Air Cap II


Searching
Search works for ALL users-Try it.

This Google page searches BF only & works better than the forum search.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

V27 July 30, 2012
Simplified ALL links to avoid the BB software link scramble and trimmed to stay within the 1500 character limit.
Countavatar.jpg
 
Last edited:
If you have a Drill Press, definitely use it, properly aligned drill holes make a huge difference.
Nothing else needs power, really.
 
i made my first knife without power tools, on a piece of railroad track, shaped into an anvil (sorta) sitting on a tree stump. i built a brake drum forge (youtube it). used a railroad spike for the knife. pounded it out with a 3 lb cross peen hammer. i think i used a long set of pliers to pull it in and out of the fire (first "blacksmithing i'd ever done too at the time and didnt make any tongs yet). anyway, i pounded n pounded n shaped and eventually had a pretty decent looking "regular" knife blade. i heated up the handle to put a simple twist in it. i switched to a small hammer, back on the anvil, tuned it up. cleaned it up with file n sand paper. hardened it, tempered it. then really polished the heck out of it (left some scale/black in the twist on the handle area). i still dont like them fully polished, the handles. anyway, all that said, railroad spikes make crappy "user" knifes..but.. i had a fun time making it and ive made, and sold a ton since. still got that first one.
i should mention, since all users are different, they are not "crappy". if you enjoy oiling your knife alot and sharpening it constantly, or having a knife that friends will comment on/ask about alot=they make GREAT knives. alot of people seem to enjoy them.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for all the advice, will be posting photos and updates on my progress. Received my piece of 1095 last night, UPS delivered it at 9 pm. Wife will kill me if she finds out that I am thinking about taking the day off to start a knife project.
 
Ok guys, I think I am at the 75% done mark. I want to post some photos for some imput but having a hell of a time with that.
 
to post photos you need to use a site like photobucket or by having a paid membership
 
I use photobucket. Account is free, and once you've uploaded them, mouse over the picture, and you'll get a popup. Bottom one is the IMG coding that you'll need for the forums. Just click on the box, and it should autocopy, so you can just paste it into the reply box.
 
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