First Knife In Progress

Ochs said:
Tim,
Glad to hear you can see those pics. Looks pretty good on the model but I think we need to move the pivot point in the liner down (toward the finger side of handle) maybe 1-2 millimeter(s). When the blade is in the closed position it looks a little close to the top of the handle. Also, there is quite a bit of extra handle here at the back of the handle that could get thinned out. I would suggest trimming it down and get the handle profile just how it will be. clean up any bumps and so forth. Then you are going to need to pick a spacer material or stand off and get it on the list. Oh and I want to know too, kind of curious what you are going to do.
Click to expand...

i've pretty much centered it as much as i can without making the blade look out of place in the liner. im not too concerned with that extra material when closed. i more want it to feel good in hand and im pretty happy with the feel now. is the stand off that fill in piece between the liners?
 
Apebrains,
Glad to hear you are getting something out of all of this! :)

Tim,
Do as you wish but if your blade is not shrouded (covered) by the handle it could cut you or get damaged. Adding a millimeter on the edge of the handle could be done too. As for thining up the handle the benefit here is to make it as practical to carry as possible. You decide what is right for you I am just trying to give you some suggestions for the things I would likely do. :D

Yes, the spacer is the part of the handle sized exactly at the thickness of the blade + washers which holds the two sides in the back of the handle parallel. If you look back to post #30 you can see a picture of some different options. I would suggest Micarta or G10 if you want a solid piece since it is fairly easy to work with and very stable (does not change size) Probably not a good place to use wood here. Another choice would be stand-offs usually 2 or 3 which you can buy ($2-5 each) at one of those knife suppliers I mentioned. There is an example of this in Post #30, it gives an open look to the knife which I think is kind of cool. Check out the yellow handle one in Post 30.
 
Tim,
I will be leaving town for the July 4th holiday and out of computer contact until Tuesday. :D Looking forward to seeing some good friends.

You have quite a bit on your plate here I know and this is probably good timing for you anyway. Hopefully you will have a chance to finalize details and pull your shopping list together. Be sure to check back to post #22 and #30 for help with that.

Also, in working up your list keep in mind how you are going to drill holes. As mentioned before old bits are trouble, titanium is hell on bits so stick with very sharp or new bits only. For the pivot in order to avoid blade play you will need to drill this hole twice so for instance if you are using a 1/4" pivot similar to this one:

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You will need to drill both the blade and the liner side with the female part of bolt first with a #C size bit (which is just smaller than 1/4") and then ream the hole out with a 1/4" Reamer. Reamer is a long straight fluted bit see below pic (under knife).

picture.php


Hey by the way that is the knife repair for my mom with the Curly Walnut handle.

Also, keep in mind you will need to have bits for clearance holes on screws and/or for tapping holes so think out how and where your screws are going to be, their orientation and how they will grab or thread to hold this together. Also, will they be counter sunk...if so you will need a special counter sink for them. Is that enough to keep you busy?! :rolleyes:
 
Haha, thanks for all the info. That will definitly keep me busy. Nice handle. Have fun on your holiday!
 
Good for you. Looks like a good start. Let me know if you have questions and I will try to help out.
 
I started making another folder today, just out of stuff i could scrounge up around the work shop just for a bit of practice. What a headache hey? haha, anyway here's some pics.

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Blade is made out of the mystery stainless i made that fixed one out of. Liner is the remainders of that saw blade. Pins and pivot are the ends of drill bits that i tapped. spacer is some opaque acrylic.
 
Well that is sort of crudely cool. For practice and learning you cannot beat just going for it. I going to keep it real basic here on the suggestions since you are just messing around. It is VERY important to keep your frame liner parallel so get your self some 0.010-0.030 washers (or something very thin and cut is out). This will lower the friction in opening the blade. Adjust your spacer material to the exact thickness of your blade+washers and add a second small screw through that spacer to shore that up. It might be nice to grind off those pointed parts too...If you actually want to hold it.

LOL have fun!
 
Tim,
I appreciate your enthusiasm to just make a knife it is very cool to look back at when you are done and say I made that and it works.

But for me once I made a couple of the simple functional knives there was the question if I can make this...can I make some thing better than I can buy at Bi-Mart for $35. With some effort I did and I am sure you can too. With all the resources on the internet there is some great information readily available. You have some woodworking and general shop skills already which is a great start. With some more knowledge and work you could make something that you can really be proud of and your buddies will drool over.

Here is the link to Ray Rogers liner lock tutorial, it is a pretty good straight forward run down on how to make a good custom tactical folding knife.

http://www.rayrogers.com/ftutorial.htm

He also has a short version which is more for people to just get an idea of how it all goes together. It is also helpful in starting our and is here:

http://www.rayrogers.com/how.htm

What you can learn in a few hours could save months of work...just trust me on that.
Eric
 
haha, yeah that was just a progress pic to show you what i was up to because i hadn't posted in a while. I will clean all those pins up, straighten up the spacer and put some sort of scale on the handle.

Doing this so far i have realized that i need to find another way to drill the holes because the drill press i have access to does not drill a clean, true to size hole and that as you said i will need to get carbide bits. It's a big learning curve and thats why i did this. Testing and putting into practice all the info you've given me over the last month.

thanks heaps!
Tim.
 
Tim,
You may not need a new press. If you want to check your drill press for accuracy get a stout wire, like a hanger or heavy gauge bailing wire bend it into an "S" shape and chuck it into your drill press. Set the press for a slower speed and raise the table up until the wire is just below the spining "S". This will show you what the deflection is from 90 degress. If the wire is equal distants from the table all the way around you are probably OK. If not well you may be able to adjust the table if not and you have a wobble you may have other problems...trouble.

Next, realize that as I have mentioned there is a reason why knifemaker work in the intial steps with the metal in the soft state, known as anneal. That is because things become very difficult to work when the metal is hardened. As you progress I would recommend you find a source for knife supplies. Likely you can find some O1, D2 for blade steel at a local metal supply to start out with.

Here are a few basic pointers which you may already be doing, but when you drill holes in metal you need to mark and start your hole with a punch. Grind an old nail set into a 45 degree point if you don't have one. Otherwise when you go to start drilling ANY standard bit is going to walk around on metal, especially hardened metal, until it starts to bite a little pit, then it will start to cut and drill. In other words mark your spot and punch a dimple there then drill into the dimple so the bit can bite into the metal and start a straight hole. Also, slow your drill press speed down to say 100-200 rpm's if you can, drill slow and don't push to hard and your holes will be much cleaner. If you start to get metal shaving ribbons curling off you doing good.

Oh did I mention sharp bits?!!!!!!!!! :D
 
Yeah, i've done quite a bit of metal drilling.

I ordered a bunch of stuff today. Pivots, washers, screws, stop pins, corby bolts, 410 ss plate for liners, cobalt drill set and a high carbon tap and die set. I'll also order a length of D2 soon. I'd also like to get a metal cutting blade for our bandsaw at work.

Can't wait to get into it. It's a bit annoying ordering from American sites though because it's all in inch's and Australia's been on the metric system since before i was born.

I've been having trouble getting my head around the lock but i re-read that ray rogers tutorial and he seems to use another layer of metal separate from the liner is there another way of doing it so i dont end up with 5 layers... if not ill have to order some more, thinner material...
 
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Sounds like you are planning to make a fixed blade and folders...Good stuff. You know it might be worth checking out a British or German knife magizine or forum for metric suppliers. Or there are several good European and South African makers that post in the custom area. Keep an eye out and see if they can direct you to a good supplier.

Not quite sure what to make of your lock question. Ray is constantly shifting the stack of two liners and blade around in order to drill and so you can see what is going on. That is one good way to keep it all lined up. If you are going to have wood scales on both sides your stack from left to right for a right handed knife at the pivot will have: Wood, Liner with lock, washer, blade, washer, liner, wood. Hope that helps.

Hey there is a great post by Antonanton post #15 great pics of Tom Mayo's shop and knives...he is a Great maker check it out.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=745922
 
This is what i mean.

"In picture (11) we dispel any last ideas that you, dear reader, may have been clinging to that knife handles for folders are in any way prefabricated for the aspiring knife maker. I call this my "micarta sandwich". It is two pieces of 1/8th inch thick titanium, a sheet of .050 titanium for the lock, and a sheet of micarta, all bolted together through the pivot hole."

He has the thicker ti layers then a thinner one for the lock.
 
Not to worry about that it is just Ray's style...think about the thicker 1/8" titanium on that side as your wood scale. Check out those Tom Mayo knives on that previous link for good examples. What thickness of 410ss liner material did you get?

Did you find the book by Bob Terzuola, here it is on Amazon. Don't buy it new here I have seen it for $35-45 new at knife supply places, it may be out of print right now so copies could be dwindling. But knife books seem to get reprinted occationally.

http://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Folding-Knife-Construction-Liner-Locked/dp/0873418581/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278862098&sr=8-7
 
Mayo's knives are fantasic...but not really my style. I'm big on timber handles. the 410ss is .060"
 
Tim,
I have this tutorial bookmarked and was planning on posted it for you earlier but decided to holding off since I am not found of how this tutorial suggest doing only a small grind of 45 degrees at the primary bevel edge before heat treat. I know some makers work this way however, it can lead to problems especially for begining grinders and particularly with some of the super steels like S30V and even D2. In my discussions with Paul Bos one thing we have discussed at length is after a blade has been heat treated and a maker goes to finish the primary bevel grind and polish it, it is very easy to heat the blade up beyond 350 degrees on the edge. At that tempature range one will start to diminish the effectiveness of the heat treated hardness which is what makes the knife most effective. To avoid this I have always, ground my primary grinds while the blade is still anneal to about 85-90% of finished, taking the anneal blade to 400 grit, then heat treating. It seems logical to do most of the work while it is soft and saves on belts too. Once it is heat treated I do a quick clean up grind at 220 and polish up to 600-1200 depending on finish. This last part is all done with bare hands and generally slower grinder speeds than the initial grinds. This was actually an earlier suggestion of Wayne Goddard, and Paul Bos thought it made a lot of sense. They both have probably forgotten more about knife making and metallurgy than I can ever hope to learn. Gads :rolleyes: now I am off on a long winded explaination....(LOL).

Does any of this make sense? Mostly I hope you can take away from this that there are a 100 ways to do most of this stuff, find what works for you but there is lots to understand and consider.

In that vein here is another tutorial by a Belgian Knifemaker, Filip De Coene, he uses an internal stop for his folders and grinding jigs which I find rather distracting to grinding. I prefer to mostly freehand grind. But he does get good looking grinds and jigs definately help with consistancy when you are starting out. Trouble is free hand grinding is really part of the Art of the blade for me, and I dare say many makers. It seems likely that if one starts out relying on jigs thay one might miss out on a great joys of nailing a grind with just your hands. Besides being a basic skill that every maker should have. That said I tend to use my table much more when grinding damascus and working slower, since I don't want to make even small mistakes.

http://custombladeworks.wordpress.com/tutorials/tutorial/

Maybe Filip De Coene might be able to help you out with a good metric knife supply company, worth an email.
 
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