first knife out of a file did I screw up

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william8284

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Apr 30, 2010
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So I got the idea to make my first knife. I am south korea right now so have limited resources and limited equipment to make it worse bout to leave so may not have time for any order to get here. I managed to get a few files that were being thrown a way. sounded like good start but the only one large enough to make knife anything like I wanted was a craftsman file, I have 3 nicholson files that are real small maybe 6inch by 3/8. I tried to heat the file up by the only means I have my stove top. I managed to soften it to where I could file it but it aint truly anealed by no means. I got the shape all worked out and started finishing and sharpening it. That is where I messed up besides the craftsman file of course. I also dont have the means to heat treat it properly. I dont have a heat source to get it even close to nonmagnitic. Shoul I just chalk it up as a loss and use it as a learning experince and see what it can do in it curent conditon or should I try and heat treat it and see if it warps.I am a little wary bout both the file choice and the fact that it is sharpened. Keep in mind this was a project to see if I could do it and if it is something I want to persue when I get home in late June. May I say I am hooked I love it. Knife looks ok just some small file marks I am fixing. I am going to get proper steel when I get back to the US to work with and will have some tools that beat tiny files for sure. What are your thoughts I would appreicate any insight.:confused:I will post pics when i get my camera back from a friend who borrowed it to take pics of rc airplanes yeah they pick on me for knives but hey I threw my knife in a tree as hard as it could and it didnt even get a scratch told them to fly there plan in to it and see what happens they shut up quick.:D
 
Its not a loss until you give up!! Hold on to it until you get back to the US and I'm sure people will be glad to help you out
 
even if it is unuseable I will finish it just to get the practice and learn from my mistakes just not sure if I should even heat treat it.
 
Go to one of the shops on base or nearby. The machine shop, maintenance shop, even the motor pool. One,or all, of them will have a welding torch, and they will help you with the heating and quench. ( a rosebud tip will work best for torch heating the blade)
Heat the blade to non-magnetic plus a bit and quench it in oil.While a proper fast quench oil is needed, Canola oil or Peanut oil will work. ATF will do if nothing else is around, and last choice would be motor oil. A water quench under poor control would almost surely break the blade.
After the hardening quench, clean the blade well with soap and water and then bake in the kitchen oven at 400F for two hours. Take out and quench in cold water ( there is no risk of damage here), and put back in the oven for another two hour bake.
This is about the best you can do in the circumstances you are under.

Good luck.
 
You would need at least a propane torch I think to get the blade hot enough to harden. I have not tried Craftsman files but I suspect they are fairly conventional, probably W-1 or 1095-ish. The only way to tell from where you are now is to give it a shot if you can find a heat source and some oil in a can. I had decent results using olive oil with Nicholson files on my first few, it made some tough little blades. I wouldn't worry too much about it being sharpened, as long as you don't overheat it too much before the quench, or try quenching in water.
 
thanks I may be able to get a propane torch I am aways from a base that has any thing to help with the heat treat. I live in korea and not sure but I think there laws prevent them from getting larger knives than most areas I am US military so I can have larger than say the average korean from what i have seen so I dont think they will be to willing to help. I do have a friend with a propane torch now if I can just find some propane guess I have something to shop for. I have access to a oven but it will be quite a while after quenching before it can go in to a oven probaly 3-4 hours is that to long? I wish I hadnt sharpened it now but you live and learn I quess. I went very thin on the bevel and it is very sharp. I am intrested in how long the edge will hold if heat treated properly cause it seems to be holding up to what I threw at it last night better than my benchmade 9050 out of 154cm which doesnt make to much sence i know but I beat both up last night to see how the edge is going to hold up and the file knife may the the winner here. Although for some reason I tried to work the edge back to remove a chip in the blade on the bench made with a file and it didnt even touch the steel confused that shouldnt happen I thougth a file hardenes was round 65-66 the benchmade is suppose to be 58-60 that might explain why it is so hard to sharpen. and chips easily. I bought it used and it was beat up bad fixed it back up took a very long time long time with a blue dmt stone. I have other knives in 154cm and dont have any problems with chipping or sharpening and the benchmade doesnt realy hold that good of a edge dulls fairly quick thats what realy confusing.:confused:I wonder if the person before me got the blade to hot but the powder coat seems fine.
 
154cm could probably refuse a file even with the hardness in the low 50's, due to the carbides. The more highly alloyed steels can give very misleading results from a file test.
I had a BM with a 154cm blade and my experience was similar to yours, the edge chipped easily and the tip never really stood a chance in my hands. All I can say is that the factory HT's any more seem to cater to hardness readings rather than actual cutting performance. Or maybe they just make knives for opening letters these days.
 
This is the only knife from benchmade I have had any issues with had several made with 440c and loved them but this one I like it but not impressed knife fit finish is well it is still a benchmade but the blade sucks I am not impressed got a case trapper in CV and it will outcut it all day but it does that to most pocket knives I have so bad comparison I quess. I hope they work out the kinks in the heat treat if that is the problem was going to order a new 940 but I might have to get it in d2 if others are having the same problem. And other than last night I dont beat my knives they dont touch anything that can damage them unless I have no tother choice but when it comes to that it is the Benchmade that I beat just dont care fot it as much. Thanks for the insight and now I know I am not the only person with this issue
 
do you have any crappers that get burnt? (stand upwind of course) a bbq fire, a nice campfire, a gas stove... any of these will get it hot enough

Jason
 
JasonSCarter said:
do you have any crappers that get burnt? (stand upwind of course) a bbq fire, a nice campfire, a gas stove... any of these will get it hot enough

Jason
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Kind of what I was thinking, minus the crapper burn out (do they still do that?). :barf:

The torch option is a good one, but a charcoal grill with a blower (GF's blowdryer) may well get you there also if you are looking to do it "old style".

As others have said, a good oil quenchant will be needed with old motor oil being last on the list. I would NOT quench in water unless you want 3 or more pieces.

Charlie
 
I have the heat treat planned for tomarrow got 3 options found propane for the torch so yeah probaly gonna use it also going to grill tomarrow at work so got that covered going to get a couple gallons of cooking oil of some sort hopefuly olive but what ever i can find is what i will get thanks let you know how it turns out been working on 2nd knife now but learned a bit from the first so maybe it will come out better got it profiled and intial ground so we will see she looks pretty good 10 times better than the first
 
will a gallon of soybean oil do other than that the only oil I could get would be I have access to 5 gallons of marine grade desiel engine oil humm not to sure if I want to use it but it is free and being recyled it is unused. I would like to use the soybean oil what do you think is it enough
 
A gallon should work, I have never heard of anyone using soybean oil but you just ain't gonna know until you try. I hope it turns out!
If you can come up with a length of pipe that the blade will fit into you might be able to direct the torch into this and get a little more efficiency when you heat the blade, kind of like a micro-forge.
 
I think I will try the soybean oil just cause I think it is a better option than the regular diesel oil. I will try to get some pics up tomarrow before and after heat treat if I get to heat treat it tomarrow. I hope it comes out if not in to the recycling can it will go good part is only thing I will have ivested in is time a 10 dollars worth of soybean oil
 
so the heat treat today failed i tested it on a file of the same material just to see if the torch would do it well somebody stole it from under the car where it was laid to cool so back to the store tonioght where my friend bout his on for him cause it got stolen while I was using it 2 for me to make sure I can get enough heat try agian tomarrow.without the torch getting stolen I hope
 
william8284 said:
so the heat treat today failed i tested it on a file of the same material just to see if the torch would do it well somebody stole it from under the car where it was laid to cool so back to the store tonioght where my friend bout his on for him cause it got stolen while I was using it 2 for me to make sure I can get enough heat try agian tomarrow.without the torch getting stolen I hope
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Not to be picky, I really am interested in how working with a minimum amount of resources go, but your last post was VERY difficult to read and follow. It had no punctuation and was structured as a big run on sentence. I had to read it almost 3 times :confused:

This is just a friendly tip that more people might read, respond, and help if it was a little easier to read. Keep up the work making the knives!!! I am interested in how it turns out :thumbup:
 
I am sorry bout that last post I did it after I got home from working 14 hours. But hey my grammer always did suck. I cant fully blame work for that. I should have done some editing, thanks for pointing it out. I look like a 10 year old with the posts I made this week. I will make sure I watch out for that in the future. Thanks again to all those who have helped me. I hope you all have a good Memorial Day.
 
I hope you have better luck on the next attempt. Do let us know how it goes, I wish I was in a position to offer help instead of just advice. Hope you have a good Memorial Day, too.
 
I tried to heat treat the knife again tonight. I would say it went much better than yesterday,however the torches were not enough heat. Well looks like take three is in store. I think when I get this done I will have a good list of leasons learned. I am going a treasure hunt this weekend for some materials for a cheap forge. I had the materials fiqured out till I tested a small metal container I found and watched it blow,note peeled labels may mean a highly flamable liquid was in there before in this case it was acetone. There is no way I am going after the bigger ones.
 
Be careful that whatever container you use is not galvanized. Paint and chemicals are bad enough, get galvanized metal hot enough to melt the zinc and then breathe the fumes, and you can die from it in short order. A piece of black iron gas pipe is what I would be on the lookout for, but I realize you don't have a supply house next door and will probably have to improvise. Be careful, man.

Edit: if you are not able to get the entire blade to non-magnetic heat, you might try just heating the edge. This might be more within the capabilities of your torch(es)There are a number of makers who prefer to do it this way so as a technique there is nothing wrong with it.
Also it might sound kind of silly but I have heard of guys making forges with stacked stones, or even just a hole in the ground. It don't have to be fancy, especially if you are only using it once.
 
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